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      01-19-2016, 03:38 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by PappyVR4 View Post
For the DTC/DSC button, it doesn't matter which mode you're in when you press it. It always does the following:

DTC (press) = Comfort throttle response and Comfort steering with Dynamic Traction Control on. This allows some slip and is good in snow and other times when you don't want power cut when a tiny bit of slip happens.

DSC off (hold) = Comfort throttle response and Sport steering with Dynamic Stability Control off. This allows for even more slip than DTC, but they put throttle response in comfort mode as a safety measure.

Sport+ = Sport throttle response and Sport steering with Dynamic Traction Control on. This mode functions like sport + DTC, allowing some slip but keeping sport throttle/steering.

There is no way to get sport throttle response with the DSC off.
Thanks!
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      01-19-2016, 03:48 PM   #24
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just saw pappyVR4's post, its raining out, struggling to resist the urge to do doughnuts for 1st time in car..... mussssst ressssit temptation......
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      01-19-2016, 06:27 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by radm View Post
Will try, thanks!
Try it on slightly wet roads first. Even on dry, 90 degree turn, rear will slide.
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      01-19-2016, 06:55 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by eluded View Post
just saw pappyVR4's post, its raining out, struggling to resist the urge to do doughnuts for 1st time in car..... mussssst ressssit temptation......
Doooooo eeeeeeeeeet. And post video
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      01-19-2016, 10:44 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by AhsanU View Post
I recently purchased a 2015 335i xDrive, and I am regretting it.

I purchased the car as a sort of daily driver, because I don't feel comfortable driving my Model S P85D around NYC everywhere, so I thought xDrive would help deal with the snow NYC gets often. I got the 335i while trading in my E46 M3, and the xDrive is making the car less enjoyable than a RWD 335i, I suspect. Note: I am not comparing the E46 M3 with the F30 335i, they are completely different cars.

I live in a relatively secluded area of the Bronx, and I can get away with some hooligan driving (peeling around corners, slightly kicking the tail out). I used to do it in my E46 often late at night - it was fun lighting the rear tyres up! But I simply cannot do the same to the 335i xDrive as it stands (maybe with some better rubber, JB4, full catback, I could). With all the electronic nannying turned off, I cannot slide the tail out, or burn rubber by simply mashing my right foot.

Don't get me wrong - it's an EXCELLENT daily driver. It's comfortable, very well made, etc. but it's just not drivers car with the xDrive. I'd be pretty disappointed if it were my only car, but I plan on getting a 991 C2S soon, so my desires for a sports car will be alleviated.

One other thing - definitely look into a manual if you're looking for even more of a driver's car. The automatic transmission is fast, but leaves much to be desired in terms of thrill and control, since it's really slow in manual mode from 1st to 2nd, and upshifts on its own when you near redline.
The biggest problem is it's an open diff, so I have a 1 wheeler pealer...

So even though I can break the tires loose in 3rd gear, it's not fun to slide around.

With the M3 that diff will lock and you can just slide around and have a blast

Even with that considered I stiff got a RWD and just run snow tires in the winter.
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      01-20-2016, 12:53 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by TJDiCandido View Post
I prefer the handling characteristics of rear wheel drive cars.

I've never experienced winter in the San Jose area
That was tongue-in-cheek, right?

My $.02: I had a 335i X-drive. I sold it. I live in an area where it snows a great deal, up to 50 inches a year. I now own an M3 with excellent snow tires. The X-drive felt tall, bloated: it was pretty decent, but wasn't an M-sport RWD. Just not the same feel, not really even close. I had to drive the M3 over the pass a couple of weeks ago in a freezing rain storm: cruising at 45mph the whole way. Passed at least 20 AWD cars/SUV's in that time who were slipping all over the place and doing 25mph. Tires make the difference, not drive system.

If you are buying a BMW as a nice daily driver, get the X-drive, no worries. If you are buying a BMW for performance reasons; legendary handling and balance; forget the X-drive. It isn't necessary. Just buy good winter tires. You will get better traction, even on a steep, icy hill, with RWD and Blizzaks, over say X-drive and the stock runflat all-season tires. I know very well from experience.

Plus, where are you taking this thing? An RWD car with great winter tires can go most anywhere if it comes down to traction. Clearance is likely to be your biggest issue if you are going to Tahoe to ski and a big storm cycle hits: you will need a truck or real SUV regardless in that case.

One could even argue that X-drive is a danger: people drive with too much confidence and drive on crappy all-season tires because they have X-drive and think they are somehow invincible. Winter crashes almost always happen because someone couldn't stop or they lost control and slid out on a corner or icy straight. Those are tire issues, driving skill issues, and speed issues; not drive-system issues.

I can't stand how dealers and auto companies push X-drive on people, as if it's somehow necessary to operate a vehicle safely. Even in places like Portland that almost never see snow, you can't find a RWD BMW anymore outside of an M car. It's silly. You lose mpg, gain complexity, and most of all, lose the reason you bought a BMW in the first place; handling and balance. Less is sometimes more.
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      01-20-2016, 01:55 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by crono06 View Post
This is only true of xDrive cars. Adaptive M only gives variable dampers. All other suspension components are base.
If it's just springs, could I buy the OEM M springs and swap them with what came on my xDrive?
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      01-20-2016, 10:02 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaidersFan View Post
That was tongue-in-cheek, right?

My $.02: I had a 335i X-drive. I sold it. I live in an area where it snows a great deal, up to 50 inches a year. I now own an M3 with excellent snow tires. The X-drive felt tall, bloated: it was pretty decent, but wasn't an M-sport RWD. Just not the same feel, not really even close. I had to drive the M3 over the pass a couple of weeks ago in a freezing rain storm: cruising at 45mph the whole way. Passed at least 20 AWD cars/SUV's in that time who were slipping all over the place and doing 25mph. Tires make the difference, not drive system.

If you are buying a BMW as a nice daily driver, get the X-drive, no worries. If you are buying a BMW for performance reasons; legendary handling and balance; forget the X-drive. It isn't necessary. Just buy good winter tires. You will get better traction, even on a steep, icy hill, with RWD and Blizzaks, over say X-drive and the stock runflat all-season tires. I know very well from experience.

Plus, where are you taking this thing? An RWD car with great winter tires can go most anywhere if it comes down to traction. Clearance is likely to be your biggest issue if you are going to Tahoe to ski and a big storm cycle hits: you will need a truck or real SUV regardless in that case.

One could even argue that X-drive is a danger: people drive with too much confidence and drive on crappy all-season tires because they have X-drive and think they are somehow invincible. Winter crashes almost always happen because someone couldn't stop or they lost control and slid out on a corner or icy straight. Those are tire issues, driving skill issues, and speed issues; not drive-system issues.

I can't stand how dealers and auto companies push X-drive on people, as if it's somehow necessary to operate a vehicle safely. Even in places like Portland that almost never see snow, you can't find a RWD BMW anymore outside of an M car. It's silly. You lose mpg, gain complexity, and most of all, lose the reason you bought a BMW in the first place; handling and balance. Less is sometimes more.
I think it's more the geographical location, I live where we get about 75 inches of snow per winter season, so xDrive is a must for me, RWD just doesn't work over here, I would get a M3 and store it for the winter and probably keep my 335i xDrive as my winter car.

This winter season wasn't too bad, as we had about 45-50 inches so far.

Last edited by chaungo; 01-20-2016 at 11:05 AM.
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      01-20-2016, 10:16 AM   #31
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This winter season wasn't too bad, as we had about 45-50 inches so far.
Still a lot of winter to go!

I'm on my 2nd xdrive and yes the ride height isn't as good as a pure RWD BMW, but I still find the cars to be RWD biased...meaning when pushed I get the rear out more than an under-steer like a FWD or audi style AWD.
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      01-20-2016, 10:20 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canukgtp
Quote:
This winter season wasn't too bad, as we had about 45-50 inches so far.
Still a lot of winter to go!

I'm on my 2nd xdrive and yes the ride height isn't as good as a pure RWD BMW, but I still find the cars to be RWD biased...meaning when pushed I get the rear out more than an under-steer like a FWD or audi style AWD.
True. This is my 3rd BMW. The DHP system really helps the xdrive suspension.

Also I almost like the higher ride height. I don't scrape my front lip. Ha
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      01-20-2016, 10:25 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by canukgtp View Post
Still a lot of winter to go!

I'm on my 2nd xdrive and yes the ride height isn't as good as a pure RWD BMW, but I still find the cars to be RWD biased...meaning when pushed I get the rear out more than an under-steer like a FWD or audi style AWD.
I'm pretty sure an Audi S4 with Sport Differential will understeer much less than a 335i xDrive. It does have an active torque vectoring differential.
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      01-20-2016, 11:03 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by MomoM3 View Post
If it's just springs, could I buy the OEM M springs and swap them with what came on my xDrive?
I believe I read somewhere that it's not just the springs. I think it's also the sway bars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chaungo View Post
I think it's more the geographical location, I live where we get about 75 inches of snow per winter season, so xDrive is a must for me, RWD is just doesn't work over here, I would get a M3 and store it for the winter and probably keep my 335i xDrive as my winter car.

This winter season wasn't too bad, as we had about 45-50 inches so far.
Quote:
Originally Posted by canukgtp View Post
Still a lot of winter to go!

I'm on my 2nd xdrive and yes the ride height isn't as good as a pure RWD BMW, but I still find the cars to be RWD biased...meaning when pushed I get the rear out more than an under-steer like a FWD or audi style AWD.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blubaron79 View Post
True. This is my 3rd BMW. The DHP system really helps the xdrive suspension.

Also I almost like the higher ride height. I don't scrape my front lip. Ha
Agreed with all that was said here. People also tend to argue rwd with winters vs awd with all seasons. I'm really not sure why this is the case. Put winters on both and I'd say you would have a hard time arguing that the rwd will still be better in the snow/ice.
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      01-20-2016, 11:50 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by crono06 View Post
I believe I read somewhere that it's not just the springs. I think it's also the sway bars.
Do you think it'd be worth it to add springs & sways? Understood there might be aftermarket options but I'd be more interested in staying with OEM.

What other benefits would I expect replacing the springs and sways? Lower ride height, improved spring rate, improved handling?

--


My 340i is my 1st xDrive non-SUV car. I also have an X5 which is xDrive of course but I'm not comparing my 340i's xDrive to the X5.

After owning my 340i for a week, I can't really complain about its handling as an AWD vs RWD at all. I've owned several M3s - (1) e46, (2) e92 and although either of those cars were the epitome of what RWD should be, I cannot make a huge distinction between the handling of those vs. the 340i xDrive. I am sure the 340i RWD would be A LOT closer to the driving experience of my previous M3s but it's certainly not a night and day difference with xDrive. The only detractors I've found was the car being too planted when making a turn from a stop and the ride height. Sure, steering seems a tad bit wider, but not wide like my X5.

I live in a semi-rural area with varying elevation and twisty roads everywhere and get a ton of snow. Believe me, I wanted RWD but I also wanted a car I could just throw skis in and head to the mountain on un-plowed roads. If I wanted a RWD it wouldn't be a 340, it'd definitely be an M3 with out-of-the-box rear-differential.

The net-net is I was worried the xDrive would drive like my X5 and it really doesn't at all. It is certainly a compromise and just the slightest bit more of peace of mind but I'm actually quite happy with its handling and I've had my snow set-up on since day 2.

You should absolutely NOT get an xDrive if you live outside of where you consistently get snowfall OR if you plan on not driving in snow. I had RWD living in Manhattan and that was fine because when it would snow, I would just hop on the subway to go anywhere and leave my car in the garage. Roads in the city were generally plowed in a half day so you were fine as long as you didn't park on the street. I wanted xDrive because when it snows, I bolt for the mountains. Also, if you decide to buy an xDrive because of the "snow" get actual snow tires! All-season tires and AWD in the snow is absolutely pointless. My X5 with all-seasons has gotten stuck skating on ice plenty of times. Please don't get an xDrive for "rain" like I see some people do.
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      01-20-2016, 12:49 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MomoM3
Quote:
Originally Posted by crono06 View Post
I believe I read somewhere that it's not just the springs. I think it's also the sway bars.
Do you think it'd be worth it to add springs & sways? Understood there might be aftermarket options but I'd be more interested in staying with OEM.

What other benefits would I expect replacing the springs and sways? Lower ride height, improved spring rate, improved handling?

--


My 340i is my 1st xDrive non-SUV car. I also have an X5 which is xDrive of course but I'm not comparing my 340i's xDrive to the X5.

After owning my 340i for a week, I can't really complain about its handling as an AWD vs RWD at all. I've owned several M3s - (1) e46, (2) e92 and although either of those cars were the epitome of what RWD should be, I cannot make a huge distinction between the handling of those vs. the 340i xDrive. I am sure the 340i RWD would be A LOT closer to the driving experience of my previous M3s but it's certainly not a night and day difference with xDrive. The only detractors I've found was the car being too planted when making a turn from a stop and the ride height. Sure, steering seems a tad bit wider, but not wide like my X5.

I live in a semi-rural area with varying elevation and twisty roads everywhere and get a ton of snow. Believe me, I wanted RWD but I also wanted a car I could just throw skis in and head to the mountain on un-plowed roads. If I wanted a RWD it wouldn't be a 340, it'd definitely be an M3 with out-of-the-box rear-differential.

The net-net is I was worried the xDrive would drive like my X5 and it really doesn't at all. It is certainly a compromise and just the slightest bit more of peace of mind but I'm actually quite happy with its handling and I've had my snow set-up on since day 2.

You should absolutely NOT get an xDrive if you live outside of where you consistently get snowfall OR if you plan on not driving in snow. I had RWD living in Manhattan and that was fine because when it would snow, I would just hop on the subway to go anywhere and leave my car in the garage. Roads in the city were generally plowed in a half day so you were fine as long as you didn't park on the street. I wanted xDrive because when it snows, I bolt for the mountains. Also, if you decide to buy an xDrive because of the "snow" get actual snow tires! All-season tires and AWD in the snow is absolutely pointless. My X5 with all-seasons has gotten stuck skating on ice plenty of times. Please don't get an xDrive for "rain" like I see some people do.
try driving your 340xi with traction control off, in my opinion, it lets me turn more with the steering angle and the front wheels are not as "numb"....it feels better...
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      01-20-2016, 01:17 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Polo08816 View Post
I'm pretty sure an Audi S4 with Sport Differential will understeer much less than a 335i xDrive. It does have an active torque vectoring differential.
But the S4 still has a lot more weight in front of the front wheels.
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      01-20-2016, 03:31 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crono06 View Post
Agreed with all that was said here. People also tend to argue rwd with winters vs awd with all seasons. I'm really not sure why this is the case. Put winters on both and I'd say you would have a hard time arguing that the rwd will still be better in the snow/ice.
+1000. Beat me to it here.

For me, living in the bay area, we don't get a lot of snow or ice true. But we ARE only a few hours from the mountains, and I like to do day trips when I don't have the time for a full vacation up to the snow. So it would be AWD + Winter tires for that, and even though we've had some pretty good storms lately they're also pretty good about clearing the roads in and out of Tahoe - or at least to the point where I don't think clearance would be much of an issue, if at all.
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      01-20-2016, 05:40 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by NorCalAthlete View Post
+1000. Beat me to it here.

For me, living in the bay area, we don't get a lot of snow or ice true. But we ARE only a few hours from the mountains, and I like to do day trips when I don't have the time for a full vacation up to the snow. So it would be AWD + Winter tires for that, and even though we've had some pretty good storms lately they're also pretty good about clearing the roads in and out of Tahoe - or at least to the point where I don't think clearance would be much of an issue, if at all.
We don't get a lot of snow and ice you say ;-) I have seen snow falling down here once since 98 and even then it was melting on contact with the ground. But I also go to Tahoe. I got around with RWD and snow tires fine but I always wondered what would happen if I get pulled over or get into an accident- since you are not supposed to drive there without chains with RWD (even if you have snows). I could be automatically at fault.

What snows are you planning to get? I had performance snows Dunlop Sport M2's on my first RWD BMW but they were slipping a bit on the snow and ice - I didn't like them. I loved the Continetal Extreme Contact for the grip but they got chewed up on the asphalt driving to and from the mountains. Plus around here I had to be careful, they were like butter. Looking at Tire rack there are only 4 options for MSport brakes. So Blizzaks or X-Ice for grip or Sottozeros for safety and durability when driving to and from mountains.

Last edited by radm; 01-20-2016 at 05:45 PM.
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      01-20-2016, 07:12 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radm View Post
We don't get a lot of snow and ice you say ;-) I have seen snow falling down here once since 98 and even then it was melting on contact with the ground. But I also go to Tahoe. I got around with RWD and snow tires fine but I always wondered what would happen if I get pulled over or get into an accident- since you are not supposed to drive there without chains with RWD (even if you have snows). I could be automatically at fault.

What snows are you planning to get? I had performance snows Dunlop Sport M2's on my first RWD BMW but they were slipping a bit on the snow and ice - I didn't like them. I loved the Continetal Extreme Contact for the grip but they got chewed up on the asphalt driving to and from the mountains. Plus around here I had to be careful, they were like butter. Looking at Tire rack there are only 4 options for MSport brakes. So Blizzaks or X-Ice for grip or Sottozeros for safety and durability when driving to and from mountains.
Blizzak WS80s are hardcore.

X-Ice Xi3 is somewhere between the WS80 and a performance winter tire. Bear in mind, the X-Ice Xi3 is probably the only (if not one of the few) tires that have a mileage warranty.
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      01-20-2016, 10:14 PM   #41
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I'm one to buy a BMW for the dynamics. XDrive is a weight penalty and there are probably differences in the basics of spring rate, damper valving and anti-roll bars plus ride height.

However, I believe the main issue is suspension geometry at the front. In order to drive the front wheels there needs to be a CV axle going into them, which creates a packaging issue and as things are moved around to make room, certain key aspects of the geometry are affected. This makes the car feel different compared with the RWD counterpart.

My RWD does well with winter tires, I deal with snow and can't take snow days. (Pirelli sottozero 3, rated best this year on tirerack)
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      01-21-2016, 02:09 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Polo08816 View Post
Blizzak WS80s are hardcore.
Naw, THIS is hardcore

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      01-21-2016, 09:55 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Polo08816 View Post
I'm pretty sure an Audi S4 with Sport Differential will understeer much less than a 335i xDrive. It does have an active torque vectoring differential.
Well I haven't tried a new S4...my buddy's 2014 A5 and some older audi's I've driven have always been more nose heavy...hopefully the newer ones are more balanced
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      01-21-2016, 10:16 AM   #44
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I cannot offer anything regarding the F3x series but this information using the E92 as an example might be helpful nonetheless.

Comparison:
2012 E92 335ix, 6MT, M-Sport (staggered wheel/tire setup)(no performance mods)
2012 E92 335is, 6MT (no performance mods)

Despite what you read on these forums, x-Drive is not anathema to the "pure" BMW driving experience (whatever that is in 2016). Below are some general observations based on my experiences. Please keep in mind that my 335ix is a co-DD (commute and used in 80%+ of our holiday travel anywhere and any weather), I do not track this car, and my "boy racer" days are well behind me.

• 4x4 look - This always makes me laugh - I also own a 1993 Pathfinder (made when they were real off-road trucks) and THAT has a 4x4 look. The x-Drive gap is less than .75 inches more than that of the 335is owned by a friend. By the way, the 335ix scrapes on some driveways around here (including my own). The 335is is much more prone to scraping (my friend does not even attempt to enter my driveway).
• weight and handling - The 335is feels a bit more "quick" relative to steering and more "crisp" going through the curves in the more rural parts around here. In the city the difference is mostly in the quickness of the steering. The 335ix can take off in a “spirited” manner in the rain with no tire spinning, the 335is needs to be controlled more.
• fun factor - We both enjoy our cars immensely. Choose what makes YOU happy, not what makes other people happy.
• AWD "security" - As noted by others, one of the more frustrating things to me relative to this is the false sense of security many AWD drivers have. I do wish dealers would provide a proper explanation of the role of tires in this equation, not just sell AWD as the “perfect solution” to winter driving.

Hope this helps!
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