F30POST
F30POST
2012-2015 BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum (F30 / F32) | F30POST > 2012-2019 BMW 3 and 4-Series Forums > General F30 Sedan / F32 Coupe / F36 Gran Coupe Forum > BMW 430i Sport Line has much better handling
GetBMWParts
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      08-10-2017, 08:34 PM   #45
ska///235i
***** noob
ska///235i's Avatar
United_States
740
Rep
10,352
Posts

Drives: 325xi>M235i>428GCx Mspor
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Boston

iTrader: (34)

Garage List
2006 325xi  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ouengineer View Post
How fast do you guys need your DD to handle? I, of course, would always like better, more solid handling and less body roll. But, realistically, as of now I can take corners so hard in my '15 335i Luxury Line X-drive (with good tires) that my wife freaks out and yells at me. If I go any faster, she might take it away...

Quote:
Originally Posted by AudiA4 View Post
Actually, most people would describe the LCI updates more as a "nuance" to the existing rather than a radical change. Better? Moderately. A revelation? No.
I wouldn't call a noticeable difference a "nuance". But the difference certainly wasn't enough for me to even consider the price jump between a '15 and '16 model.
I call BS on good handling on a 3 series "xdrive". Yea its better than a camry but still soft AF. Your passenger is scare is cuz of the soft suspension, with a good setup she'll not notice the speed...just saying
__________________
2006 325xi (Sold)
2014 M235I (Current)
2015 428xi Gran Coupe (STB)
Appreciate 0
      08-11-2017, 08:24 AM   #46
roundel335
Major General
roundel335's Avatar
United_States
523
Rep
5,529
Posts

Drives: 13 335i Sedan, 16 228i Cabrio
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Leland, NC

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
In the 3 and 4-series, you have "base" suspension, M-Sport suspension, and the Dynamic Handling/M-Adaptive suspension. All are available in both model lines. My 2013 335i M-Sport sedan has the DHP/Adaptive M suspension, and when in Sport or Sport+ modes, it's much stiffer than it is in Comfort mode. The stiffer suspension option for the 3-series may come standard in the non-base 4-series, but they all have the same basic components. It all depends on what options you have in the car and what mode you're driving in.
__________________

2013 F30 335i M-Sport 8AT/MPE/MPPK, 2016 228i M-Sport Cabrio 8AT
Appreciate 0
      08-11-2017, 09:06 AM   #47
AudiA4
Major
AudiA4's Avatar
327
Rep
1,371
Posts

Drives: 2014 335i (EB) 6MT, M Sport
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Little Rock, AR, USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by roundel335 View Post
In the 3 and 4-series, you have "base" suspension, M-Sport suspension, and the Dynamic Handling/M-Adaptive suspension. All are available in both model lines. My 2013 335i M-Sport sedan has the DHP/Adaptive M suspension, and when in Sport or Sport+ modes, it's much stiffer than it is in Comfort mode. The stiffer suspension option for the 3-series may come standard in the non-base 4-series, but they all have the same basic components. It all depends on what options you have in the car and what mode you're driving in.
Agreed on the variations on the 3, but as I understand it, the 4-series has different hardware/geometry in the suspension setup (it's its own unique setup). BMW's own documents allude to this, but I've never seen any definitive list of the differences.
__________________
2014 F30 335i (EB) 6MT, M Sport, Premium, Tech, DHP, HK, CW, M Brakes, M Exhaust

2006 E90 330i (Silver) 6MT, Sport
Appreciate 0
      08-11-2017, 02:03 PM   #48
upsidedownfunnel
Private First Class
United_States
41
Rep
172
Posts

Drives: 2014 335i Sport 6MT
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Irvine, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by roundel335 View Post
In the 3 and 4-series, you have "base" suspension, M-Sport suspension, and the Dynamic Handling/M-Adaptive suspension. All are available in both model lines. My 2013 335i M-Sport sedan has the DHP/Adaptive M suspension, and when in Sport or Sport+ modes, it's much stiffer than it is in Comfort mode. The stiffer suspension option for the 3-series may come standard in the non-base 4-series, but they all have the same basic components. It all depends on what options you have in the car and what mode you're driving in.
I can say definitively that the equivalent suspension trim for the 4 series is always stiffer. So a base 3 series is definitely softer than a base 4 series, an M sport 3 is softer than an M sport 4, and the same goes for the adaptive.
Appreciate 0
      08-11-2017, 07:24 PM   #49
oonowindoo
Second Lieutenant
30
Rep
275
Posts

Drives: 2015 435i GC
Join Date: May 2013
Location: LA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by roundel335 View Post
In the 3 and 4-series, you have "base" suspension, M-Sport suspension, and the Dynamic Handling/M-Adaptive suspension. All are available in both model lines. My 2013 335i M-Sport sedan has the DHP/Adaptive M suspension, and when in Sport or Sport+ modes, it's much stiffer than it is in Comfort mode. The stiffer suspension option for the 3-series may come standard in the non-base 4-series, but they all have the same basic components. It all depends on what options you have in the car and what mode you're driving in.
When you compare apple to apple. you will notice the difference. If you start comparing between M sport with M adaptive suspension vs. base 428, then things will get confusing.

yes i agree they do have the same basic component but for some reason, there is a very noticeable difference. I think no one would really know why, except BMW themselves.
Appreciate 0
      08-11-2017, 07:30 PM   #50
oonowindoo
Second Lieutenant
30
Rep
275
Posts

Drives: 2015 435i GC
Join Date: May 2013
Location: LA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by upsidedownfunnel View Post
I can say definitively that the equivalent suspension trim for the 4 series is always stiffer. So a base 3 series is definitely softer than a base 4 series, an M sport 3 is softer than an M sport 4, and the same goes for the adaptive.
It is not just only stiffer, i feel it is just better calibrated.

I think this is not exclusive to 4 series. I know C class coupe drives somewhat differently than sedan as well... and G37/Q60 Coupe vs Q50/G37 sedan.

I thought 4 series suspension was too stiff after having it for a while....it turned out that runflat really messed up the ride.

Now 4 series with proper summer tires = stiff without being too stiff because of the runflat.

When i had my F30 and change from RFT to summer, the car handled much better but it also felt even softer than with RFT at the same time because of the sidewall.
Appreciate 0
      08-12-2017, 09:15 AM   #51
roundel335
Major General
roundel335's Avatar
United_States
523
Rep
5,529
Posts

Drives: 13 335i Sedan, 16 228i Cabrio
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Leland, NC

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
With more than 50 years of driving under my belt, including competition and high-speed driving schools, I can clearly tell the difference between different models of the same chassis. How about somebody check out the suspension part numbers between simiar models of 3- and 4-series (340i vs. 440i or 335i vs. 435i) cars with the same options? Springs, shocks, sway bars, bushings, control arms, etc. If they're different, then that's a whole 'nother story. But 2 body styles sitting on the same chassis with the same suspension options, tires, and driving-mode settings with one feeling "stiffer" than another just doesn't add up.
__________________

2013 F30 335i M-Sport 8AT/MPE/MPPK, 2016 228i M-Sport Cabrio 8AT

Last edited by roundel335; 08-12-2017 at 09:24 AM.
Appreciate 0
      08-15-2017, 12:39 PM   #52
Dmitry83
Second Lieutenant
Russian Federation
32
Rep
251
Posts

Drives: F30 320i (328i ECU) M-Sport
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Rostov-on-Don, Russia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by roundel335 View Post
With more than 50 years of driving under my belt, including competition and high-speed driving schools, I can clearly tell the difference between different models of the same chassis. How about somebody check out the suspension part numbers between simiar models of 3- and 4-series (340i vs. 440i or 335i vs. 435i) cars with the same options? Springs, shocks, sway bars, bushings, control arms, etc. If they're different, then that's a whole 'nother story. But 2 body styles sitting on the same chassis with the same suspension options, tires, and driving-mode settings with one feeling "stiffer" than another just doesn't add up.
OK, let's go with 428i vs 328i (Pre-LCI accordingly).


4 and 3 have different
- shocks
- front & rear subframes
- rear knuckles (or hub- don't know that part exact name on English)
Last two make the track (axle) 14mm wider.

Rear sway bars of both 4 and 3 are equal 12mm with standard suspension.
3 has 13mm with M-Technik, 4 has 14mm with 14mm M-Technik.

Front sway bars are equal- 24mm standard and 24,2mm M-Technik.

Also 4 has the reinforcement V-bar under the bottom.

All the control arms & bushings are equal.

That's all the differences- seems nothing dramatic, but as a bit experienced drivers know the different settings of springs and shocks can transform a car you cannot recognize it if driving blind.
For now having added the bits in the signature I've finally got a true BMW feel. (Will also risk to install M135i front and rear sway bars this week!)

430i vs 330i (LCI):

Shocks are new to Pre-LCI on both 4 and 3.

Rear subframes- unchanged.
4 rear sway bars are now same 12mm for standard, 14mm (former M-Technik) for Adaptive, 15mm for M-Technik
3 rear sway bars options are unchanged.

4 front sway bar M-Technik is 25mm, while 3 has 24,6mm M-Technik. Standard ones are equal for 4 and 3- no data on thickness, but seems 24mm as on Pre-LCI.

Again- all control arms & bushings are equal on 4 and 3- only the front axle is wider by 14mm and rear axle- by 22mm on 4 Pre-LCI.
LCI 4 and 3 have equal front axle, rear is just 6mm wider on 4.

That's all, folks!)
__________________
'13 F30 320i (328i ECU) RWD M-Sport
Michelin PSS, M-Sport brakes, 320i LCI muffler
F32 bottom V-bar
F80 bottom reinforcement plate
Koni Sport, M-Technik springs, M135i Anti-roll bars

Last edited by Dmitry83; 08-15-2017 at 01:22 PM.
Appreciate 1
otay246

      08-16-2017, 08:23 PM   #53
ska///235i
***** noob
ska///235i's Avatar
United_States
740
Rep
10,352
Posts

Drives: 325xi>M235i>428GCx Mspor
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Boston

iTrader: (34)

Garage List
2006 325xi  [0.00]
Wait, the 4 series have the side vents....thats why it has better handling
__________________
2006 325xi (Sold)
2014 M235I (Current)
2015 428xi Gran Coupe (STB)
Appreciate 0
      08-17-2017, 01:46 AM   #54
440xiGCMsport
Lieutenant
135
Rep
457
Posts

Drives: Estoril Blue
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Canada

iTrader: (0)

The 4 series has a wider track and a stiffer body. BMW reinforced the 4 series body to be more sports car like so even if you mount the same suspension on a 4 series it would handle better since the suspension is only as good as the body it is mounted on. That said BMW most likely take the suspension in addition to the chassis of the car.
Appreciate 0
      08-17-2017, 02:11 PM   #55
bimmer_335
Captain
38
Rep
918
Posts

Drives: 335i Coupe
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Plano, TX

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes View Post
The handling on my 428GC drive was poor IMO. Granted, I didn't expect it to match my previous camaro SS that had a few mods, but the 428 definitely didn't live up to BMW hype. I did test drive it first, but i can't imagine how bad the pre-LCI is given all of this. With the mods I've done to the suspension on the 428, it lives up to what I'd expect it to come with or be available with. The x-drives are especially bad, having a raised ride height and no sport suspension as compared to the non-x models. Now in sport+ I forget it's an AWD car and I get some nice neutral handling on the snow/pavement without too much oversteer.
I'd never buy a BMW without a sport suspension... regardless of which car in the line up you look at, without sport suspension they ride like grandma's car.
Appreciate 1
      08-17-2017, 06:31 PM   #56
Dmitry83
Second Lieutenant
Russian Federation
32
Rep
251
Posts

Drives: F30 320i (328i ECU) M-Sport
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Rostov-on-Don, Russia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 440xiGCMsport View Post
The 4 series has a wider track and a stiffer body. BMW reinforced the 4 series body to be more sports car like so even if you mount the same suspension on a 4 series it would handle better since the suspension is only as good as the body it is mounted on. That said BMW most likely take the suspension in addition to the chassis of the car.
Body stiffness on its own does not guarantee better handling- the difference in body flexibility between 2 door and 4 door is not that significant as if compared to GT or Converible. Rear clued-in glass and the reinforcement shelf and thick sqare bar under it provide the most of the rigidity to the body of both sedan and coupe, where GT has a huge hole covered with boot lid.

Just the good shocks and springs transform the 3 you will not recognize it is the same car blindfolded.

Also 4 has the V-bar under the bottom, 2mm thicker rear sway bar, and stiffer settings of shocks and springs. These little cheats make it much better handling with no surprise due to extreme chassis sensibility.

So I think the 3 is made this grandma's handling feel on purpose- to make people want a F80 soon after F30.
At the same time the chassis balance and potential is brilliant- again just try one nice tuned F30- you'll be amazed.

The even better opinions on M3 handling compared to M4 also give some things to consider on.
__________________
'13 F30 320i (328i ECU) RWD M-Sport
Michelin PSS, M-Sport brakes, 320i LCI muffler
F32 bottom V-bar
F80 bottom reinforcement plate
Koni Sport, M-Technik springs, M135i Anti-roll bars
Appreciate 0
      08-17-2017, 06:35 PM   #57
Dmitry83
Second Lieutenant
Russian Federation
32
Rep
251
Posts

Drives: F30 320i (328i ECU) M-Sport
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Rostov-on-Don, Russia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmer_335 View Post
I'd never buy a BMW without a sport suspension... regardless of which car in the line up you look at, without sport suspension they ride like grandma's car.
Totally agree.
For many years I try to buy only sport-adjusted BMW models. This time with F30 I had to take the very-very fresh example with M-Sport package for a good price, which had a standard suspension, that I had to replace completely with M-Technik + few additions. Now it is a true BMW as I used to feel these cars.
__________________
'13 F30 320i (328i ECU) RWD M-Sport
Michelin PSS, M-Sport brakes, 320i LCI muffler
F32 bottom V-bar
F80 bottom reinforcement plate
Koni Sport, M-Technik springs, M135i Anti-roll bars
Appreciate 0
      08-17-2017, 07:22 PM   #58
misterjim
Private First Class
6
Rep
109
Posts

Drives: 2008 e93 335i
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Rochester, NY

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dmitry83 View Post
OK, let's go with 428i vs 328i (Pre-LCI accordingly).


4 and 3 have different
- shocks
- front & rear subframes
- rear knuckles (or hub- don't know that part exact name on English)
Last two make the track (axle) 14mm wider.

Rear sway bars of both 4 and 3 are equal 12mm with standard suspension.
3 has 13mm with M-Technik, 4 has 14mm with 14mm M-Technik.

Front sway bars are equal- 24mm standard and 24,2mm M-Technik.

Also 4 has the reinforcement V-bar under the bottom.

All the control arms & bushings are equal.

That's all the differences- seems nothing dramatic, but as a bit experienced drivers know the different settings of springs and shocks can transform a car you cannot recognize it if driving blind.
For now having added the bits in the signature I've finally got a true BMW feel. (Will also risk to install M135i front and rear sway bars this week!)

430i vs 330i (LCI):

Shocks are new to Pre-LCI on both 4 and 3.

Rear subframes- unchanged.
4 rear sway bars are now same 12mm for standard, 14mm (former M-Technik) for Adaptive, 15mm for M-Technik
3 rear sway bars options are unchanged.

4 front sway bar M-Technik is 25mm, while 3 has 24,6mm M-Technik. Standard ones are equal for 4 and 3- no data on thickness, but seems 24mm as on Pre-LCI.

Again- all control arms & bushings are equal on 4 and 3- only the front axle is wider by 14mm and rear axle- by 22mm on 4 Pre-LCI.
LCI 4 and 3 have equal front axle, rear is just 6mm wider on 4.

That's all, folks!)
You list shocks being different in your list but not springs. Are the springs different as well?
Appreciate 0
      08-18-2017, 02:41 AM   #59
upsidedownfunnel
Private First Class
United_States
41
Rep
172
Posts

Drives: 2014 335i Sport 6MT
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Irvine, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by misterjim View Post
You list shocks being different in your list but not springs. Are the springs different as well?
Springs are definitely different. They're different part numbers, sit slightly lower, and have higher spring rates.
Appreciate 0
      08-18-2017, 06:00 AM   #60
Dmitry83
Second Lieutenant
Russian Federation
32
Rep
251
Posts

Drives: F30 320i (328i ECU) M-Sport
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Rostov-on-Don, Russia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by upsidedownfunnel View Post
Springs are definitely different. They're different part numbers, sit slightly lower, and have higher spring rates.
Exactly.
__________________
'13 F30 320i (328i ECU) RWD M-Sport
Michelin PSS, M-Sport brakes, 320i LCI muffler
F32 bottom V-bar
F80 bottom reinforcement plate
Koni Sport, M-Technik springs, M135i Anti-roll bars
Appreciate 0
      08-18-2017, 05:18 PM   #61
misterjim
Private First Class
6
Rep
109
Posts

Drives: 2008 e93 335i
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Rochester, NY

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dmitry83 View Post
Exactly.
How about for an x-drive 435 - is it firmer than an x-drive 335, with different part numbers, etc?
Appreciate 0
      08-21-2017, 06:08 AM   #62
Dmitry83
Second Lieutenant
Russian Federation
32
Rep
251
Posts

Drives: F30 320i (328i ECU) M-Sport
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Rostov-on-Don, Russia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by misterjim View Post
How about for an x-drive 435 - is it firmer than an x-drive 335, with different part numbers, etc?
Never driven an X-Drive 335 or 435ii, so can't tell- sorry.
__________________
'13 F30 320i (328i ECU) RWD M-Sport
Michelin PSS, M-Sport brakes, 320i LCI muffler
F32 bottom V-bar
F80 bottom reinforcement plate
Koni Sport, M-Technik springs, M135i Anti-roll bars
Appreciate 0
      08-22-2017, 08:16 PM   #63
misterjim
Private First Class
6
Rep
109
Posts

Drives: 2008 e93 335i
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Rochester, NY

iTrader: (0)

Further confirmation of the differences in suspension. If you look at the 4-series sticky above under the suspension section:

Chassis / Suspension / Brakes / Wheels
Springs and dampening, axle kinematics and elastokinematics tailored for 4 Series (although chassis construction based on F30 3 Series)
Modifications to camber angle, the track and the roll center (0.7 inch lower than 3 Series Sedan)
Particular attention paid to strengthening front section of the car
Additional strut between front axle subframe and body sill
Lightweight aluminum torque struts, wishbones, swivel bearings
Appreciate 0
      08-23-2017, 07:06 AM   #64
Dmitry83
Second Lieutenant
Russian Federation
32
Rep
251
Posts

Drives: F30 320i (328i ECU) M-Sport
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Rostov-on-Don, Russia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by misterjim View Post
Further confirmation of the differences in suspension. If you look at the 4-series sticky above under the suspension section:

Chassis / Suspension / Brakes / Wheels
Springs and dampening, axle kinematics and elastokinematics tailored for 4 Series (although chassis construction based on F30 3 Series)
Modifications to camber angle, the track and the roll center (0.7 inch lower than 3 Series Sedan)
Particular attention paid to strengthening front section of the car
Additional strut between front axle subframe and body sill
Lightweight aluminum torque struts, wishbones, swivel bearings
Yes, there are two longitudinal struts between the subframe & the body. If someone could only tell are there the mounting places on the F30 subframe for it- would be interesting to add it (same as the rear V-strut).

Swivel bearings are different to increase the track by 14mm (rears are also different for the same reason).
But what is meant by "Lightweight aluminum torque struts, wishbones"? All suspension elements (besides front subframe, shocks and springs) are totally equal for F30 and F32.
__________________
'13 F30 320i (328i ECU) RWD M-Sport
Michelin PSS, M-Sport brakes, 320i LCI muffler
F32 bottom V-bar
F80 bottom reinforcement plate
Koni Sport, M-Technik springs, M135i Anti-roll bars
Appreciate 0
      08-23-2017, 01:48 PM   #65
geyas
New Member
0
Rep
7
Posts

Drives: x5
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: california

iTrader: (0)

Have not tried series 4 yet, but it looks like this thread is very interesting
Appreciate 0
      08-23-2017, 06:56 PM   #66
sr5959
Captain
73
Rep
626
Posts

Drives: 428GC M-Sport
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Seattle

iTrader: (0)

My 2015 4GC has much better handling than my pre-LCI 3. It also has 5 bolt mountings for the front shocks as opposed to 3-bolt on my 3. Even if all components were similar a wider, lower car with better weight distribution is bound to handle better.
Appreciate 1
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:22 PM.




f30post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST