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      09-17-2017, 11:55 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E90SLAM View Post
Actually it was Seb ruined the race. Both Kimi and Max was going straight at the start. I'd like to see Seb challenge lewis for the championship, but that's not the way to do it.

Speaking of which, the four years Vettel won the world champion. It wasn't as intense fight as he was on right now with Hamilton.
In 2010, it was 4-5 way race, and wasn't till the last phase of the last race that Vettel emerged as the world champion.
In 2012, Alonso was fighting with Vettel, but the Ferrari was a medicore car compare to the RB 8 was a much more superior car in that era.

Not until now, Seb had a chance for a championship with a slightly less competitive car compare to the leading cars (mercs) and he had to work hard and play smart.

Back to Max, I think its a year for him to test his mental strength. Many drivers had his fair share of rubbish cars.
Alonso, 2008/09 Renault, his Ferrari era, and of course recent McLaren!
Hamilton, 2009 McLaren, 2013 Mercedes (won a few, but never championship winning)
Vettel, the 2008 Toro Rosso, 2014 RBR.

I think Max will come more stronger and hunger for winning after this season!
Yes , you are right .
As for MAX , hope he gets ASAP more luck in the next races because today it was the the seventh time out of the race..
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      09-17-2017, 12:02 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by E90SLAM View Post
Dang it!!! you jinxed it!!!
Without the Italian sandwich , MAX was today on the podium for sure..
Because he's the rainman !
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      09-17-2017, 01:26 PM   #25
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Monumental mistake by Seb to squeeze Max and take the risk.
He should know that a racer like Max would never back down.

Kimi and certainly Max not to blame, this one is on Seb. It could very well cost him the WCD.
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      09-17-2017, 03:07 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by EdM5 View Post
Monumental mistake by Seb to squeeze Max and take the risk.
He should know that a racer like Max would never back down.

Kimi and certainly Max not to blame, this one is on Seb. It could very well cost him the WCD.
I was surprised MAX had bad traction or a bad reaction from the start grid .
Ferrari's were a lot faster away in the first straight line and that nailed MAX in the Italian sandwich...

7 times out in this season alone...Don't know how to pray for MAX , but I will try to pray ASAP as a non-believer for Sepang
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      09-17-2017, 03:15 PM   #27
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Bad curse for Ferrari in Singapore...when it comes down to championship title.

First came to mind was Massa's fuel hose in 2008, another self-inflicted problem.
And now, over aggressive Vettel caused double DNF here.
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      09-17-2017, 11:36 PM   #28
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Pretty common practice to put the squeeze on into the first corner guys. They called it a racing incident for good reason...Raikkonen still had a few feet to move over and brake to avoid the collision as well but he didn't budge, so you can't blame it all on Vettel. In fact, Raikkonen was actually starting to come back off the inside of the track when he collided with Verstappen.
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      09-18-2017, 06:09 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ksteckba View Post
Pretty common practice to put the squeeze on into the first corner guys. They called it a racing incident for good reason...Raikkonen still had a few feet to move over and brake to avoid the collision as well but he didn't budge, so you can't blame it all on Vettel. In fact, Raikkonen was actually starting to come back off the inside of the track when he collided with Verstappen.
MAX was nailed in the middle of an Italian sandwich.

Snapshot..
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      09-18-2017, 07:05 AM   #30
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I don't believe anybody was particularly wrong either. I only think Vettel should've been more conservative to protect his car, but the flip side is Max would then think he's mentally weak as would Hamilton.

As a Hamilton fan, I always want Max next to Vettel. Max won't back down. That's about all the enjoyment to be had out of F1 at the moment. Too many non competitive cars on the field.

Alonso claimed he could've won because he was ahead of Hamilton before he was taken out. I don't believe that was the case. Regardless, his car would've probably broken down if he was to try to put pressure on a Mercedes car lol
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      09-18-2017, 08:08 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
Plenty of room for Kimi ? Are you serious ?
There was not enough room
Yes, plenty of room. Look at the slow mo of the start.

Max moved right at the start 0.15, But at 0.16-0.18, Max slowly moves left. At 0.19, Kimi is marginally ahead of him. But at 0.20 it looks like Kimi moves right and first contact is his rear wheel into Max's front wheel. While the freeze frame shows at 0.20 a couple tires widths between Max and Vettel, I'm sure the angle of Vettel moving across made it feel much closer. I still feel it was a racing incident and Max was the least to blame (despite Ferrari claiming otherwise).


Last edited by jkoral; 09-18-2017 at 08:39 AM.
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      09-18-2017, 08:27 AM   #32
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Thanks for that slow mo vid. Watching it over and over, it seems more like it's all Kimi's fault. If he kept his line and wheel straight, he and Vettel would've successfully blocked Max.

I think it's also clear that Alonso could have prevented his incident. He had a clear view of Kimi and chose to dive down the inside of turn 1 towards Kimi rather than play it a little cool like Ricciardo.
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      09-18-2017, 09:42 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ksteckba View Post
Pretty common practice to put the squeeze on into the first corner guys. They called it a racing incident for good reason...Raikkonen still had a few feet to move over and brake to avoid the collision as well but he didn't budge, so you can't blame it all on Vettel. In fact, Raikkonen was actually starting to come back off the inside of the track when he collided with Verstappen.
Mostly we "blamed" vettel cause he started the whole event, its not uncommon for some cars in behind had a lightening start and alongside another driver.
And you're right, its also not uncommon for pole sitter to squeeze and protect his position at the start, especially after a slippery start.

But when all of these combined together, its an ingredient of disaster.

When you said Raikkonen came back from the track, his suspension was severely damaged and he was just a passenger even before the car reached Turn 1. He was just skidding on the skid blocks.
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      09-18-2017, 09:52 AM   #34
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Meh, I saw it as a racing incident with really nobody to blame. Kimi made a dynamite start, Vettel most likely didn't see it, and Max got squeezed. All of this is happening in literally thousandths of a second and we expect these guys to be perfect. Oh, and the cars are freaking super wide this year in case anybody is forgetting. ;P

Really killed the race for me though. Took out three of my favorite drivers right off the bat, and then for some reason Riccardo couldn't challenge Hamilton at all so it turned into an incredibly boring race. Oh well.
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      09-18-2017, 11:26 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickyC View Post
Meh, I saw it as a racing incident with really nobody to blame. Kimi made a dynamite start, Vettel most likely didn't see it, and Max got squeezed. All of this is happening in literally thousandths of a second and we expect these guys to be perfect. Oh, and the cars are freaking super wide this year in case anybody is forgetting. ;P

Really killed the race for me though. Took out three of my favorite drivers right off the bat, and then for some reason Riccardo couldn't challenge Hamilton at all so it turned into an incredibly boring race. Oh well.
What a line up, three world champions took out at Turn 1.

From what I heard from Ted Kravitz notebook and Christian Horner's post race interview. Ricciardo was managing a gearbox issuing mid-way through the race.
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      09-18-2017, 11:31 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickyC View Post
Meh, I saw it as a racing incident with really nobody to blame. Kimi made a dynamite start, Vettel most likely didn't see it, and Max got squeezed. All of this is happening in literally thousandths of a second and we expect these guys to be perfect. Oh, and the cars are freaking super wide this year in case anybody is forgetting. ;P

Really killed the race for me though. Took out three of my favorite drivers right off the bat, and then for some reason Riccardo couldn't challenge Hamilton at all so it turned into an incredibly boring race. Oh well.
I blame vettel but I agree its a racing incident.
Its just a perfect recipe for a crash like this with all the ingredients. But in hindsight (what a great thing), Vettel could've play smart and focus get a clean getaway on Lap 1.

Even with Hamilton with a decent start, he could push wide and drop back on P4 or so after Turn 1 shuffle if no incidents.
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      09-18-2017, 11:39 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickyC View Post
Meh, I saw it as a racing incident with really nobody to blame. Kimi made a dynamite start, Vettel most likely didn't see it, and Max got squeezed. All of this is happening in literally thousandths of a second and we expect these guys to be perfect. Oh, and the cars are freaking super wide this year in case anybody is forgetting. ;P

Really killed the race for me though. Took out three of my favorite drivers right off the bat, and then for some reason Riccardo couldn't challenge Hamilton at all so it turned into an incredibly boring race. Oh well.
Came here to say the same exact thing. I really couldn't place the blame on one driver. It was simply a case of a bunch of things happening at once, in the wet.
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      09-18-2017, 12:08 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickyC View Post
Really killed the race for me though. Took out three of my favorite drivers right off the bat, and then for some reason Riccardo couldn't challenge Hamilton at all so it turned into an incredibly boring race. Oh well.
It was still a pretty good race, the restarts from caution kept the pack together even though LH had opened up a lead each time. DR had a chance to push, but couldn't manage anything or as someone said he had a gearbox prob,

All the action was behind the front of the pack and there was a lot of position changes throughout the race.
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      09-18-2017, 12:36 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E90SLAM View Post
Mostly we "blamed" vettel cause he started the whole event, its not uncommon for some cars in behind had a lightening start and alongside another driver.
And you're right, its also not uncommon for pole sitter to squeeze and protect his position at the start, especially after a slippery start.

But when all of these combined together, its an ingredient of disaster.

When you said Raikkonen came back from the track, his suspension was severely damaged and he was just a passenger even before the car reached Turn 1. He was just skidding on the skid blocks.
I meant right before he made initial contact with Ver.

This definitely killed the race for me as well. I was pretty excited for this one.
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      09-18-2017, 12:53 PM   #40
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For me, the only positive out of this weekend was Bob Varsha subbing for Leigh Diffey on the broadcast here in the States.
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      09-18-2017, 01:03 PM   #41
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Varsha's metaphors were interesting to say the least. Quite an unenthusiastic commentator.
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      09-18-2017, 01:21 PM   #42
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Varsha wasn't very good. Lots of mistakes. I used to like him too. Maybe he didn't have enough prep time?

I can't lay blame on that start. It's just a shame as it would have been a heck of a race. My money was on Max taking it due to the wet conditions. Now Seb needs a Hamilton DNF to have a chance at the driver's title.
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      09-18-2017, 01:40 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E90SLAM View Post
Mostly we "blamed" vettel cause he started the whole event, its not uncommon for some cars in behind had a lightening start and alongside another driver.
And you're right, its also not uncommon for pole sitter to squeeze and protect his position at the start, especially after a slippery start.

But when all of these combined together, its an ingredient of disaster.

When you said Raikkonen came back from the track, his suspension was severely damaged and he was just a passenger even before the car reached Turn 1. He was just skidding on the skid blocks.
I blame Ferrari 100%. As soon as the excitement of Vettel's pole position wore off, I realized he was surely going to be dealing with a wild and relentless Verstappen at the start. The rain only underlined that.

Vettel's an idiot, Ferrari are idiots, and Raikonnen predictably didn't give a shit about anybody. Here's what should've been agreed upon, prior to the start:
1) RAI - Stay the hell away from VET, or anyone near him. I really don't understand why Ferrari got rid of Alonso and kept RAI, but given the situation, demand that RAI be a team player. How could Ferrari let RAI carelessly launch himself into the WC battle like that?
2) VET - VER is guaranteed to torpedo into you; don't clash with him. VER will go into turn 1 too hot, and blow any advantage he has. Let him. For god's sake, don't squeeze him and jeopardize your entire race at turn 1.

How Vettel and Ferrari couldn't have predicted this is mind-boggling. I may very well be done with this season.
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      09-18-2017, 02:13 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdb View Post
Varsha wasn't very good. Lots of mistakes. I used to like him too. Maybe he didn't have enough prep time?
That's my guess. The trio of Varsha, Hobbs, & Matchett is what I'll always be used to; I much prefer Will Buxton over Peter Windsor, as well. IMO, Liberty Media should do what it can to have the broadcaster lineup be Varsha, Hobbs, & Matchett with Buxton as the man on the ground.

And PLEASE dump NBC!!!

You wanna talk mistakes...take a shot of whiskey every time Hobbs gets the driver's name wrong; I think Varsha had less mistakes than he did.
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