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      12-07-2017, 03:21 PM   #23
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M used to be special, but now there are far too many M models.
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      12-07-2017, 03:24 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Phatcat View Post
M used to be special, but now there are far too many M models.
You can add the B and W to the middle M.
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      12-07-2017, 03:24 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
Will any of the next gen M cars have a DCT?
Most probably not.

Quote:
It sounds like the M3/4 are going the same way as the new M5 (ZF autos instead)....maybe thereís hope for the M2?
I suspect that even the M2 will switch to a ZF in its next iteration.
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      12-07-2017, 03:25 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
The article mentions 11 M and 15 M Performance vehicles. I'm not sure where they got those figures from, but in any case, here's a list of known upcoming M and M Performance vehicles (in rough order by release date):
No G30 M550ix or is it missing because the roll out is officially with the 2018 model?
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      12-07-2017, 03:26 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Most probably not.



I suspect that even the M2 will switch to a ZF in its next iteration.
Hmmmm...thatís going to be an interesting development to watch. There is a nice difference from the subjective feel aspect with a DCT.
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      12-07-2017, 03:29 PM   #28
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Shit! The New M3 comes out so soon! It feels like it Just came out yesterday!
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      12-07-2017, 03:29 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadkiller View Post
No G30 M550ix or is it missing because the roll out is officially with the 2018 model?
As far as I know, the car launched back in March as MY2017. In any case, yes, it's not listed because its not upcoming; it has actually already arrived. Ditto that for the M5 (which has not hit the streets just yet, but can be ordered today).
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      12-07-2017, 03:38 PM   #30
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      12-07-2017, 03:44 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aajami View Post
Kill me if the M3 comes with an automatic.
E36 M3 came with 5-speed automatic, FYI.
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      12-07-2017, 03:44 PM   #32
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"Through the greater use of aluminium and high-strength steel, the new platform is claimed to play an integral role in reducing the weight of the new M3 despite an increase in its exterior dimensions."

.....And the M3 continues to balloon in size.
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      12-07-2017, 03:44 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fox1486 View Post
Why some many full fledged M and M-Performance vehicles? I, for one, am somewhat against this move.

What excitement can BMW be generating, when the increase in M variety/flavors is just saying "Yeah this is just slightly better than the lower trim level, but not as good as the next two trim levels above it."

I personally feel like this will dilute the M line. Why not just advance the options for performance and looks within the standard BMW line, while reserving the M title for the true highest end performance versions?
I agree and believe me you're not the only one who feels this way.
BMW M today continues to ride on the successes and prestige of its past while offering little to live up to its [once] legendary name.
I've always felt like BMW's "is" line (i.e., 335is, 135is, 535is, etc.) would've been more than sufficient in filling in the gap between "normal" BMWs and M-cars.
Yes I'm aware there were M535i's during the early days of Motorsport GmbH, but I've always argued that M during that time was testing the market for M-powered saloons during the time because the market hadn't matured, especially with the E12 M535i being the enabler to the E28 M5.
But of course, today's BMW is only interested in whoring out the M-badge to give the false impression that something like a 235i is more special than it is.
Classic brand dilution. "M" is slowly becoming nothing but a trim level.
Even its engines as of late are just more of the same recycled stuff; still powerful yes, but very uninspiring.
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      12-07-2017, 03:46 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
The article mentions 11 M and 15 M Performance vehicles. I'm not sure where they got those figures from, but in any case, here's a list of known upcoming M and M Performance vehicles (in rough order by release date):
Even though I am not a personal fan, it would be nice to see a G21 M340i.

This may a bit premature but we may see:
G06 X6 M50i
G08 X3 M40i long wheelbase
G28 M340i long wheelbase

I can understand all the comments about the M brand being diluted but you have to admit, it is good to see BMW doing more to compete with appropriate performance models in each class. I also think that BMW is doing a good job in keeping the hierarchy between ///M and M-Performance models clear. Hopefully BMW M GmbH goes all out on the M models and makes the M8 really shine vs the competition.
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      12-07-2017, 03:51 PM   #35
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Breaking news, new M3 will have a CF roof

Joking aside will be interesting to see what's specified in the M340i M340d type variants too.
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      12-07-2017, 03:52 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Law View Post
I agree and believe me you're not the only one who feels this way.
BMW M today continues to ride on the successes and prestige of its past while offering little to live up to its [once] legendary name.
I've always felt like BMW's "is" line (i.e., 335is, 135is, 535is, etc.) would've been more than sufficient in filling in the gap between "normal" BMWs and M-cars.
Yes I'm aware there were M535i's during the early days of Motorsport GmbH, but I've always argued that M during that time was testing the market for M-powered saloons during the time because the market hadn't matured, especially with the E12 M535i being the enabler to the E28 M5.
But of course, today's BMW is only interested in whoring out the M-badge to give the false impression that something like a 235i is more special than it is.
Classic brand dilution. "M" is slowly becoming nothing but a trim level.
Even its engines as of late are just more of the same recycled stuff; still powerful yes, but very uninspiring.
Exactly on the engine front. They just did it with the new M5, sounds like it will be more of the same with the next M3/4 (and probably M2 as well).

What is there to get excited about if the engine is basically the same for straight generations or ~14 years? Yikes.
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      12-07-2017, 04:02 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Carrots View Post
If they had been more aggressive with their HP figures I might actually care but bmw is starting to remind me of subaru (staying at 300 HP for a decade)

The M2 CS should be 500, the mperf should be 400, etc but instead they make tiny bumps and charge huge premiums for variants with locked down, crippled ECUs
BMW never played the HP game and their cars have always been underrated.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Mani59 View Post
increase in its exterior dimensions.
Oh please no.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mani59 View Post
Although nothing is official, the new M3 is expected to follow the lead taken by the latest M5 in featuring a carbonfibre roof as standard.
Um... It already is standard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mani59 View Post
The latest word from M divisionís Garching headquarters is that the M3 will stick with a conventional combustion engine in the form of an upgraded version of BMW Mís twin-turbo 3.0-litre inline six-cylinder unit
Yes!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mani59 View Post
mated to either a standard-fit six-speed manual
YES!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mani59 View Post
or an optional eight-speed automatic.

NO!!!
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      12-07-2017, 04:03 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LemonOne View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by aajami View Post
Kill me if the M3 comes with an automatic.
E36 M3 came with 5-speed automatic, FYI.
Only the halfwit US version. The Euros got an impossibly bad SMG series one.
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      12-07-2017, 04:07 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
Exactly on the engine front. They just did it with the new M5, sounds like it will be more of the same with the next M3/4 (and probably M2 as well).

What is there to get excited about if the engine is basically the same for straight generations or ~14 years? Yikes.
Yup. Although inherently I'm not against further development of a platform as I will explain below.*
It's just that with the turbo trend, now it's almost as if they just turn up the boost a little bit and improve cooling and then match the HP figures of last year's Comp. model and call it a day. Sorry but that is just lazy engineering.

*Before anyone brings up the M88/S38 (which was used for over 2 decades), let me clear the air as to why M GmbH's original "big six" gets a pass.
1) History/Pedigree- A true motorsport engine developed from the M49 of the 3.0 CSL race car, later became the M88 and powered the BMW M1
2) Engineering- This engine defined the path for future Motorsport engines, featuring ITBs, natural aspiration, and an appetite for revs. BMW M continued to refine it with each new generation. Displacements increased from 3.5L to 3.6L and finally to 3.8L, power kept increasing and so did the redlines.
3) Tradition- there was a certain pride factor for BMW M and a cool factor for the customer that these engines were hand built in Germany by BMW Motorsport engineers.
4) Versatility- Pretty much all the M-cars from that era (until the E34) had some M88/S38 in them and for good reason: they made good power and good torque for daily driving but still maintained the "race-car" characteristics of its roots. The E30 M3 didn't share the engine, but shared the cylinder-head minus 2-cylinders.



So yeah, I can forgive BMW if they build upon and improve on an exciting and legendary engine, but it's hard to give them a pass on the generic stuff they're pumping out these days.
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      12-07-2017, 04:08 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustChris View Post
...will be interesting to see what's specified in the... M340d type variants too.
Your comment raises a good point. I failed to recognize that, since Autocar is an international publication, the diesel models would naturally fall within the scope of their coverage.

It's not clear to me whether BMW intends to expand the M Performance diesel brand to the lower reaches of their lineup. But I agree that *M40d models would be the next logical step if they were to decide to do that.
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      12-07-2017, 04:09 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mako View Post
it does? hmmm, you sure about that

not having a manual clutch does not = automatic transmission
If the gear shifting is automated, it's an automatic transmission.

If the gear is shifted manually, it's a manual transmission.

Not sure how people have trouble with that concept.
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      12-07-2017, 04:11 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustChris View Post
...will be interesting to see what's specified in the... M340d type variants too.
Your comment raises a good point. I failed to recognize that, since Autocar is an international publication, the diesel models would naturally fall within the scope of their coverage.

It's not clear to me whether BMW intends to expand the M Performance diesel brand to the lower reaches of their lineup. But I agree that *M40d models would be the next logical step if they were to decide to do that.
Pictures of the X4 40d in the thread over at X4 too
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      12-07-2017, 04:11 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatcat View Post
M used to be special, but now there are far too many M models.
yeah this DEFINITELY sounds like a company that has " lost it's way"

Since M is no longer special.. you now have new letters to aspire to... if you want " SPECIAL" . look for M CS


Do Porschephiles say that GT, GT3.. or perhaps GTS is no longer special because GT4 , RS, or R models are available?

I can hear it now.. " GT3 isn't special anymore " ...
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      12-07-2017, 04:20 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aajami View Post
Kill me if the M3 comes with an automatic.

Why does it matter if it's a DCT or an AT .. both (are automatics and ) are *faster* than a manual.. plus you'll never be embarrassed by missing a shift

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
Will any of the next gen M cars have a DCT?

It sounds like the M3/4 are going the same way as the new M5 (ZF autos instead)....maybe there’s hope for the M2?
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
Hmmmm...that’s going to be an interesting development to watch. There is a nice difference from the subjective feel aspect with a DCT.

"Subjective feel " is overrated ! - It's better to look good than to feel good!


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