Correct Differential / LSD Oil

[nusevad]

Hey guys, while browsing I noticed that some of you guys have had grinding/rubbing noises coming from your rear diff/lsd.

I have not had nor heard this in my car yet but i noticed that the oil used for 1200 mile service was:

(2) 83-22-1-470-080L - 1 Liter XJ

I did a little research and found this:

This Service Information bulletin supersedes SI B33 01 02 dated February 2008.

SUBJECT
Grinding Noise from the Differential during Slow Cornering


MODEL
E46 M3 from start of production

E60 M5 from start of production

E63, E64 M6 from start of production

E90, E92 and E93 M3 from start of production


SITUATION
A grinding noise may be heard coming from the differential during slow cornering.

This noise is best heard during tight cornering situations.
For example : while parallel parking, driving in a tight circle, etc.

CAUSE
When the rear wheel speed differential varies during tight cornering, a slip stick effect is created on the lining and steel discs incorporated in the differential locking clutch, causing the grinding noise.

This noise typically goes away as the locking clutch discs in the differential are broken in.

The break-in time varies depending on driving habits.
For example : tighter cornering (working the locking clutch) means that it takes less time to break in the locking clutch discs.

CORRECTION
If a complaint is verified as described above on the E46 M3; E60 M5; E63 and E64 M6; or on the E90, E92 and E93 M3 vehicles, the differential oil should be replaced with a specially formulated differential oil, BMW part number 83 22 2 282 583.

Road test the vehicle. (the part I hate the most and every other technician.perhaps most of them skip this part.I would rather give you the option to perform this or at least inform you of this procedure.)

With the vehicle at operating temperature
Drive in tight circles (20 circles in each direction), allowing the special oil to coat the locking clutch discs.

The grinding noise will decrease when the locking clutch discs are sufficiently coated. Some slight noises may still be heard after driving in tight circles. Its necessary to drive the vehicle up to 600 miles before all noises are eliminated as stated by the manufacturer.

Note: Vehicles that have had the differential oil converted to this special oil should continue to use this oil whenever a service requiring the differential oil replacement is indicated.

It basically says that the new formulated oil will only be used if the car exhibits signs of grinding/rubbing. However some say that 83-22-1-470-080L is still not the correct oil.

http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showt...erential+fluid

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/archive.../t-491002.html

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/arc...p/t-15008.html

http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=83475

Originally Posted by johnw

I have been around and around with BMWNA about this issue. All '05s and '06s come from the factory with the "oil recommended for noise problems" . BMW has finally realized as other manufacturers have known for limited slip differentials, a special additive is needed to keep clutches oily. You call the BMWNA 800 # 831-1117 and they will provide you with the information that BMW recommends 83222282583 for all M-cars. This is the SAF-XJ + FM booster. If you use SAF-XJ, eventually the clutch/discs will start to grind and eventually they get so loud, you can't drive the car in peace, then they will fail. Its up to you which oil you use. Once out of warranty, you pay and that's about the time the discs go to pot if you have been using the oil without FM booster. :banghead: :banghead:

Originally Posted by johnw

Because you seemed so disturbed about my oil recommendation vs your dealer's, I called my BMWNA excutive rep and told her your story: that certain dealers said 83222282583 is only for noisy differentials and that if not noisy, stay with 83221470080.

Her comments: It is too bad that some dealerships interpreted SIB 330102 in such fashion. They need to keep themselves better informed to new engineering recommendations. That SIB was sent out to alert dealers that 583 is correct and there would be transtion from 080 to 583. I said using 080 costs BMW big bucks in warranty repairs. She agreed and said engineers have decided to do the transition in this fashion, that is,"only change oil to 583 if grinding is reported." I would think this is a bit inconsiderate of BMW because it sometimes takes 20-30Kmiles before chatter starts and the car is often out of warranty.
Well anyway, use the oil you want. As long as your car in under warranty, it is BMW's problem. However, when 080 was placed in my differential at 48Kmiles (insp 2), at 74K miles (out of warranty), the differential chattered so bad the damm thing would have come apart if I would have attempted to make it to the dealer.
Thanks to M3forum, several members, from their grind-problems,recommended 583, I ordered it ($23 + $17 for the 14 mm allen socket) and installed it. The grind disappeared.
I am not sure why BMW doesn't understand that 080 doesn't have sufficient
additives for limited-slip differentials (LSD). However BMW now seems to understand the difference because only 583 is present in 2006 LSDs.

In the book "Car hack/mods, the author provides an excellent discussion of LSDs. He says these clutch type LSDs are the best for performance and predicability on acceleration coming out of turns. He provides some negatives 1. short life on clutch packs, 2. should be serviced every 6 months, 3. need frequent fluid changes wiht expensive fluids to keep clutch packs in good working order (583 vs 080) and 4. a very specific break-in procedure is required in driving several figure 8s for extended periods of time (SIB 330102)and 5. failure to properly break in a clutch LSD will shorten its life and increase theamount of chatter you will hear and feel (cabin boom).
You be the judge: 583 (+$23) or cheapo 080 with lots of problems downstream. :smiley_ab

^ all those contain good info and suggest that 83 22 2 282 583 should be used.

So my question is, how many of you received 83-22-1-470-080L after your first service? Check your service invoices, if you didn't get one call up your service adviser and ask for one.

Also, should I and other members who got 83-22-1-470-080L put in our cars demand they replace it with 83 22 2 282 583 even though we do not have grinding/rubbing noises?

[mkoesel]

I don't understand the how different oil can fix anything. I mean, its all the same parts on every car so why should one car need one type of oil and another need another? Or are they saying that all cars will eventually make the noise to some degree, but some people either don't hear it or don't care? If so, why not just change to the other oil as a standard solution from the factory so people don't have to worry about this??

[nusevad]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

I don't understand the how different oil can fix anything. I mean, its all the same parts on every car so why should one car need one type of oil and another need another? Or are they saying that all cars will eventually make the noise to some degree, but some people either don't hear it or don't care? If so, why not just change to the other oil as a standard solution from the factory so people don't have to worry about this??

Thats why i am so confused. Why not just use the one with the additive that takes care of the grinding noise....

Perhaps BMW is trying to be stingy on their part and is thinking "Lets use the 080 fluid for now, by the time problems occur, the customer will be out of warranty anyway."

Please check your service invoice and vote.

[rmashman]

I checked bmwtechinfo.com. They specify 83 22 1 470 080 SAF-XJ Synthetic Final Drive Oil for Limited Slip Differentials.

BMW also has a differential oil for open differentials. SAF-XJ has an additive for LSDs.
583 probably just has more of the additive for problem differentials.

My E92 M3 has never had any differential noises before the 1200 mile service and doesn't have any noises now after I watched them put SAF-XJ from a labeled drum in at the service.

It is possible that some of the problem cars got the open differential oil by mistake. What dealer likes to have two 55 gallon drums of differential oil.

Rob

[GregW / Oregon]

My diff noises started after the first siervice when they installed (2) 83-22-1-470-080 SAF-XJ diff oil. Went back recently at 3,154 miles and they installed (3) 83-22-2-282-583 final drive gear oil. The noise is virtually gone.

[GregW / Oregon]

[

Originally Posted by FifthStreetz

Also, should I and other members who got 83-22-1-470-080L put in our cars demand they replace it with 83 22 2 282 583 even though we do not have grinding/rubbing noises?

Why? I don't think so. Don't fret unless you've got an issue.

[MDCTFTW]

Are there any sound clips of this noise? My invoice doesn't say what diff oil they used, but I was watching when he did it and he used diff oil from a big drum with a pump. I assumed it was commonly used since they had this huge container of it.

[GregW / Oregon]

Originally Posted by MDCTFTW

Are there any sound clips of this noise? My invoice doesn't say what diff oil they used, but I was watching when he did it and he used diff oil from a big drum with a pump. I assumed it was commonly used since they had this huge container of it.

LSD oil is different from the garden variety diff oil. It has special additives. That said, most dealers do use the bulk form, I would guess.

As for sound, imagine you rear wheel is rubbing on the well liner on sharp low speed turns--that's exactly what it sound like. If you don't have strange noises, I wouldn't worry about it.

[MDCTFTW]

Originally Posted by GregW / Oregon

LSD oil is different from the garden variety diff oil. It has special additives. That said, most dealers do use the bulk form, I would guess.

As for sound, imagine you rear wheel is rubbing on the well liner on sharp low speed turns--that's exatly what it sound like. If you don't have strange noises, I wouldn't worry about it.

Ah ok sounds good. No pun intended. I don't think I have anything like that ... yet. I do have a garden variety of other noises I need to diagnose.

[youngsj]

For what it's worth, here's my story...

I've got the '08 M3 6MT and have the diff chatter on tight cornering...as well as a diff whine at speeds between 43-47 mph. I've been to my dealer 3 times about it and they have consistently told me this is normal for the M3

They replaced my diff fluid at 1,200 mile service, and I assumed it was with the "83 22 2 282 583" since I had complained about the whine (at the time I was not getting the diff chatter on tight cornering)...but I still got the whine after the appt. The foreman told me to wait a 1,000 miles because it may need to coat the diff clutch disks and that the diff clutch disks may need more break-in time.

So I did...and now I'm at 3,200 miles and still have the whine...and in the last 500 miles have also started to get the diff chatter on tight cornering.

So, after reading this post...and many others on this subject over the last few months...I decided that I'd call my dealer again just to be sure they did put in the "83 22 2 282 583" at the 1,200 service (it took em 4 hours to do the 1,200 mile service...and then I got the usual "we don't have the oil filter in stock so you need to come back" situation...and so I was in a rush to leave and didn't get a print out of the service performed).

Well, I just got off the phone, and the service advisor tells me that the diff fluid they put in was not "83 22 2 282 583" (SAF-XJ + FM booster)...nor was it "83 22 1 470 080L" (SAF-XJ)...it was BMW Part Number "83 22 0 002 94"

I asked him what the "83 22 0 002 94" was, and he said that he had no idea but that it was probably the standard SAF-XJ fluid...but didn't know why the part number was not the usual "83 22 1 470 080L".

So, I'm bringing it in to finally get the "83 22 2 282 583" diff fluid. Hopefully this will take care of the diff chatter on tight cornering...and I'm really hoping it also takes care of the diff whine at speeds between 43-47 mph.

[nusevad]

Originally Posted by youngsj

Fit was BMW Part Number "83 22 0 002 94"

I asked him what the "83 22 0 002 94" was, and he said that he had no idea but that it was probably the standard SAF-XJ fluid...but didn't know why the part number was not the usual "83 22 1 470 080L".

I suspect that is regular differential fluid, for non-M cars. Hence why you have such a bad whine.

That is almost if not as bad as when they put 6mt tranny fluid in Davo's M-DCT. Hopefully no permanent damage was done, and if the whine does continue I would consult BMWNA to try to get a new LSD.

[rmashman]

I looked up the part number for non LSD differentials and it is
83 22 9 407 768.

So whatever they put in your differential is not the BMW standard oil for either type of current differential.

[youngsj]

Thanks alot for the info FifthStreetz and rmashman...this thread was valuable - I'll post back with results after the 583 has had a few hundred miles to work in.

[sayemthree]

HELP!!!!
just got mine back. they used 53-22-1-467-993

doesnt match any numbers here? did they F up?

[sayemthree]

I got my car back and checking the invoice for the free 1200 mi service. NONE of the fluid part numbers match anything I can find on this board???

Transmission - 2.1 liters, 2.2 quarts
Castrol MTF-LT-2
p/n 83 22 0 309 031
invoice shows: 83-22-0-406-941

Differential - 1.1 liters, 1.2 quarts
SAF-XJ Synthetic Final Drive oil for Limited Slip Differential
p/n 83 22 1 470 080 (55 gal drum)
invoice shows: 83-22-1-467-993

[nusevad]

Originally Posted by sayemthree

HELP!!!!
just got mine back. they used 53-22-1-467-993

doesnt match any numbers here? did they F up?

I did a search and it seems like that is just the 1L container

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/arc...p/t-15008.html

[sayemthree]

thanks - thats what I was wunderin. will call parts 2morrow.

[AwesomeM3]

Originally Posted by sayemthree

HELP!!!!
just got mine back. they used 53-22-1-467-993

doesnt match any numbers here? did they F up?

I have the same Diff Oil part number on my invoice.

[sayemthree]

Originally Posted by AwesomeM3

I have the same Diff Oil part number on my invoice.

i feel better, i think.

[nusevad]

what confuses me is why they have different liter sizes and whatnot....so is my diff fluid good?

[youngsj]

...an update from my earlier post to this thread on 7/9...

My E90 6MT is at the dealer today to have my diff fluid replaced with "83 22 2 282 583" (SAF-XJ + FM booster)...confirmed by the Service Foreman during drop off - I'm loving life in a Chevy Cobalt loaner for the day.

When I dropped my car off this morning I was able to get a copy of the invoice from my previous 1,200 mile service visit, so I was finally able to take a look at the print-out to see what diff fluid they put in. In my previous post, I wrote that while on the phone with the service advisor he had told me they used BMW Part Number "83 22 0 002 94"...I can now see that this number was missing a preceding zero in the last two numbers - the invoice actually says "83 22 0 002 094". The line item on the invoice print-out reads as follows: "QTY 6 - 83 22 0 002 094 - 1/2 LTR DIFF OIL". I suppose this means they put in six half-liter bottles of the 094 fluid (3 liters in total)?

While searching I found another post in May from a guy named "mattwhite" who also had this 094 fluid, but no one seemed to know what the fluid was in his thread either: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2813831

I also came across this recent thread, but don't know how valid it is because it is from 2004 and refers to the 094 fluid as a European Castrol SAF-XO (non-LS) dealership fluid...and I'm in Massachusetts (with LSD): http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/arc...p/t-54836.html

This leads me to believe that rmashman is right that my dealer put in a standard 3-series non-LSD fluid...but the only problem is that the 094 part number does not match up to the one rmashman listed (83 22 9 407 768) - Does anyone know for sure what the "83 22 0 002 094" fluid is?

I still don't understand why they wouldn't have simply used one of the two standard fluids we're seeing from other M3 owners in the poll..."83 22 2 282 583" (SAF-XJ + FM booster) or "83 22 1 470 080L" (SAF-XJ)

I'll post back with results of 43 MPH diff whine and right-cornering diff chatter/grind when I get the chance to road test after picking it up.

[TomTarzian]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

I don't understand the how different oil can fix anything. I mean, its all the same parts on every car so why should one car need one type of oil and another need another? Or are they saying that all cars will eventually make the noise to some degree, but some people either don't hear it or don't care? If so, why not just change to the other oil as a standard solution from the factory so people don't have to worry about this??

Whatever the reason, the new diff oil eliminated the grinding noise I was hearing in sharp low speed right turns.

I also had--from the time our E90 M3 was new--a periodic "graunch" in the first to second shift which seems to be on the way to being eliminated by switching to Red Line MTL in the transmission.

God bless,
Tom