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      11-12-2008, 01:03 PM   #45
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AND stop trying to make the car for everyone. BMW's have always been masculine, teutonic and utilitarean in design. Stop adding all this luxury and femininity to the car's design to gain a broader appeal. I want a pure light weight utilitarian German driving car.
Its called profits, do you even want a 3 series in the future? Heck do you even want a BMW in the future.

Sorry but if they pulled out all the "luxury items" in these cars the only people who would buy them are the true enthusiast, which honestly dont amount to a hill of beans.

We are at best less then 10% of the BMW buying public. It would turn BMW into a niche player which is great for enthusiast, but with the over head the BMW has and the amount they currently sell it would bring them right under.

So I think we need to stop talking about roll up windows and non powered seats in a 3 series, it just isnt going to happen, and honestly its not feasible.

Now what they could do though is bring some of the Euro versions over, such as the club sports with the 4 cyc they are really nice and light, or bring the CSL over. You wouldnt sell many, but enthusiasts get what they want, and everyone else gets the other 3 series models.
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      11-12-2008, 01:09 PM   #46
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This'll never happen, but wouldn't it be nice if there were, as an option, an integrated, powered mount (with external antenna connection) for a Garmin GPS? We've got the iPod interface, now let's get on with it and make the best GPS technology easy to use as well.
Your right it will never happen, especially when BMW sells its own nav option.

The problem with doing one for Garmin, while its one of the best, it just doesnt have the following that the Ipod does, the ipod was a pretty safe bet (for one because alot of cars have them now) and secondly because its has more then half the market share for MP3 players.

Some people have 2-3 ipods, there are no where near as many Garmins out there. (also there are so many different kinds something universal would be hard Ipod UI's change really there is only one connection).

It is a nice wish though, if I didnt have the Idrive I would like it.
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      11-12-2008, 02:25 PM   #47
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      11-12-2008, 02:26 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Staszek View Post
Its called profits, do you even want a 3 series in the future? Heck do you even want a BMW in the future.

Sorry but if they pulled out all the "luxury items" in these cars the only people who would buy them are the true enthusiast, which honestly dont amount to a hill of beans.

We are at best less then 10% of the BMW buying public. It would turn BMW into a niche player which is great for enthusiast, but with the over head the BMW has and the amount they currently sell it would bring them right under.

So I think we need to stop talking about roll up windows and non powered seats in a 3 series, it just isnt going to happen, and honestly its not feasible.
Well said. On a recent trip to my dealer, a SA told me he had about 200-300 cars and only 2 or 3 were sticks and the couldn't sell them! I don't want to start another stick vs auto war, but this is an indication of where things are going. When I test drove my first 1600 and 2002 in 1970, most of the cars the dealer had were sticks.

The trend is clear - the percentage of BMW buyers that are enthusiasts is declining and probably will continue to decline. BMW has to pay attention to the luxury factor or they won't sell many cars. I think they've got the performance/luxury balance about right. The car has the luxury fundamentals covered, but the emphasis is on performance, which is what enthusiasts want. I'd hate to see BMW start trying to compete with Lexus on luxury.
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      11-12-2008, 02:41 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by demosthenes View Post
Well said. On a recent trip to my dealer, a SA told me he had about 200-300 cars and only 2 or 3 were sticks and the couldn't sell them! I don't want to start another stick vs auto war, but this is an indication of where things are going. When I test drove my first 1600 and 2002 in 1970, most of the cars the dealer had were sticks.

The trend is clear - the percentage of BMW buyers that are enthusiasts is declining and probably will continue to decline. BMW has to pay attention to the luxury factor or they won't sell many cars. I think they've got the performance/luxury balance about right. The car has the luxury fundamentals covered, but the emphasis is on performance, which is what enthusiasts want. I'd hate to see BMW start trying to compete with Lexus on luxury.

In 1978 most Honda Accords were sticks, in fact they may have ALL been sticks.
BMW competes very well with Lexus on Luxury. I have owned both.
I also think BMW has the performance/luxury balance about right (except that there is some room for improvement in the way they handle bad surfaces .... and oh yeah, the RFTs suck.
Luxury vs. Performance. One does not necessarily preclude the other.
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      11-12-2008, 02:48 PM   #50
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1. RFT tires should be optional, in which case you get the M mobility kit.
2. Sunroof optional.
3. Cloth interior no-cost option, Cloth/Leather option.
4. Limited slip differential as an option.
5. Performance catalog items installed at the factory, with correct "discount" applied. Or make a "hypersport" package.
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      11-12-2008, 02:53 PM   #51
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Style -- Lose the self-conscious, overwrought, over focus-grouped, look.

The e90 rear looks like someone from Buick had a vote.

Remember the 2002? Remember the 320's of the 1980's? They looked clean, they looked aggressive.

Throw out this design school graduates and give the engineers their votes back.
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      11-12-2008, 03:50 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demosthenes View Post
Well said. On a recent trip to my dealer, a SA told me he had about 200-300 cars and only 2 or 3 were sticks and the couldn't sell them! I don't want to start another stick vs auto war, but this is an indication of where things are going. When I test drove my first 1600 and 2002 in 1970, most of the cars the dealer had were sticks.

The trend is clear - the percentage of BMW buyers that are enthusiasts is declining and probably will continue to decline. BMW has to pay attention to the luxury factor or they won't sell many cars. I think they've got the performance/luxury balance about right. The car has the luxury fundamentals covered, but the emphasis is on performance, which is what enthusiasts want. I'd hate to see BMW start trying to compete with Lexus on luxury.
If performance is key, people should demand a dual clutch transmission
I WANT ONE ! I could care less about a stick, if the dual clutch 7 speed transmission would blow away the best stick driver on the planet.
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      11-12-2008, 04:14 PM   #53
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RFT's - optional
LSD - std on 335 sport package
Redesign cup holders - Only had my car ~3 months but passengers are already complaining about them.
OEM alarm - It's std on my fiancee's 20k Nissan Rogue but not on a 50k+ BMW?
Comfort Access system - see OEM alarm.
16k mile "free" oil changes - are you kidding me?
Better HVAC controls - 1 button to turn it and the fan off.
Ash tray - ditch it and replace with compartment for your sunglasses.
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      11-12-2008, 05:31 PM   #54
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Equipment:

Others:
ē Make a sunglass tray an option in place of the ashtray (donít Americans smoke less than Europeans?)
first of all it's an european car and I don't see how the comment about smoking habbits is relevant here...if you want a shades tray, buy a GM...

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      11-12-2008, 05:39 PM   #55
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first of all it's an european car and I don't see how the comment about smoking habbits is relevant here...if you want a shades tray, buy a GM...
First of all, it's relevant because no matter where the car is manufactured, it should provide market-specific features that are relevant to where they want to sell it. Case in point, emmission and safety regulations.

Not only that, but in Europe you can specify the non-smoking package when ordering the car, so why not in the US?

Bottom line, if he wants a sunglass tray, he can still buy it from the dealer. BMW makes one that replaces the ashtray for all their cars.


Lastly, this is a discussion dedicated to wants and wishes for next generation BMW's. If your ancestors hadn't invented the French Fries, I'd say your post was completely useless.
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      11-12-2008, 05:44 PM   #56
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First of all, it's relevant because no matter where the car is manufactured, it should provide market-specific features that are relevant to where they want to sell it. Case in point, emmission and safety regulations.

Not only that, but in Europe you can specify the non-smoking package when ordering the car, so why not in the US?

Bottom line, if he wants a sunglass tray, he can still buy it from the dealer. BMW makes one that replaces the ashtray for all their cars.


Lastly, this is a discussion dedicated to wants and wishes for next generation BMW's. If your ancestors hadn't invented the French Fries, I'd say your post was completely useless.
then explain me what the eu vs usa smoking habbits contribute to this thread and (not) having a shades tray in particular...if you don't smoke, just delete the ashtray, no biggie...
As usual without us you would be eating Big Macs in a 'meat only' configuration...
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      11-12-2008, 06:49 PM   #57
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Fix the current nav shortcomings
-Show which side my destination will be on
-Allow me to search all of the POI categories, not ones you just think I might need
ie. DMV, Kragens, dealers other than BMW, tire shops
-Use better materials inside and change the paint strategy on painted interior bits that keep flaking off
-Move the window controls upward so people with normal length arms can roll the front windows instead of the rears
-Keep the RFT's. It's safer overall
-Keep the orange interior lights
-Move the door lock and unlock to the driver door
-Get rid of the amber in the headlights
-Make sunroof delete an option
-Make Shadowline trim an option
-BMW Performance options factory installable to reduce costs
-Leave the free maintenance program
-Better paint (less orange peel) process to match other manufacturers level of quality
-Move the cupholders to a location that won't spill liquids when you make a simple turn
-Put an aux. jack in the back
-Put a blower motor for the back to actually move air in the rear cabin or turn it off
-Put in standard options that the Japanese do in terms of electronics (BT, dimming mirrors, homelink, etc)
-Fix the wastegate issue
-Fix the HPFP issue once and for all
-Make available a special warranty for people willing to pay for performance add on's at a cost or something to that degree.
-Cut back on some of the electrical limitations of the car. The car is becoming so complex that if you add in a light bulb, the car goes into warranty voided mode. WHY does a sunroof switch need to be programmed? or WHY does a door switch need to be programmed?
-Improve the time it takes to flash or update Progman. Right now it takes HOURS

I think that it for me
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      11-12-2008, 07:00 PM   #58
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Australia has M type wheels and DCT for the 335, while all we can do is dream about it.

I say BMW needs a kick in the ass
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      11-12-2008, 07:07 PM   #59
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LSD
Memory power steering wheel adjustments
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Work out all the lag/waste gates/HPFP issues once and for all
Figure out the traction control thing eating up the rear brake pads..
(I have 3600 miles left on my rear pads and my car only has 9000 miles.. okay couple of track days but still!! I have never seen rear pads that wear out twice as fast as the fronts)
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      11-12-2008, 08:09 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomwac View Post
first of all it's an european car and I don't see how the comment about smoking habbits is relevant here...if you want a shades tray, buy a GM...


Second of all it's sold in the US and I don't see how the comment about smoking habbits is relevant here...if you want an ash tray, buy a Dump Truck...
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      11-12-2008, 08:33 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Staszek View Post
Its called profits, do you even want a 3 series in the future? Heck do you even want a BMW in the future.

Sorry but if they pulled out all the "luxury items" in these cars the only people who would buy them are the true enthusiast, which honestly dont amount to a hill of beans.

We are at best less then 10% of the BMW buying public. It would turn BMW into a niche player which is great for enthusiast, but with the over head the BMW has and the amount they currently sell it would bring them right under.

So I think we need to stop talking about roll up windows and non powered seats in a 3 series, it just isnt going to happen, and honestly its not feasible.

Now what they could do though is bring some of the Euro versions over, such as the club sports with the 4 cyc they are really nice and light, or bring the CSL over. You wouldnt sell many, but enthusiasts get what they want, and everyone else gets the other 3 series models.

BMW has always been something of a niche player, focused first and foremost on performance. It's what differentiates BMW from Lexus, and Mercedes, and Cadillac and a host of others. I think it lost its way when it began trying to market itself as a luxury brand in the 80's. The cars began to go soft. It became a yuppiemobile, sought after for no other reason than the cachet of the Roundel. But that carries you only so far and it's a very fickle audience. Pretty soon, they move on to the next hot thing. Even worse than that, though, was that quality began to suffer. What had been a basic, solid, reliable vehicle that you could beat to death and work on yourself became something of a technological tour de force that had too many flaws requiring an expensive battery of specially-trained technicians to fix. GM has tried mightily to appeal to everyone and look where they are. BMW can't go down that road because they can't afford to compete with the big mass marketers. They can't afford a mistake (the Land Rover notwithstanding). Keep it simple and go with who brung you. Porsche understands that better than most and they are still thriving.
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      11-12-2008, 09:10 PM   #62
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first of all it's an european car and I don't see how the comment about smoking habbits is relevant here...if you want a shades tray, buy a GM...

Kee-ripes...someone's a bit sensitive! adc explained the point very well, but it appears it hasn't quite penetrated.

The non-smoking option is available in Europe; now consider the following report from Gallup Poll:

"The regions with the highest median rates of smoking are the former Soviet countries in the Commonwealth of Independent States (CIS) (29%), Central Europe (29%), and the European Union (28%). Although Gallup has not asked this question in many European countries, those countries that have been surveyed report data that are higher than is typical of many other regions around the world."

Comparing this to the USA rate of 24%, one then wonders why a non-smoking option isn't offered in the US while it is offered in Europe. Get it?

So light up, take a drag, and relax! It's just the Internet!
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      11-12-2008, 09:30 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Staszek View Post
Its called profits, do you even want a 3 series in the future? Heck do you even want a BMW in the future.

Sorry but if they pulled out all the "luxury items" in these cars the only people who would buy them are the true enthusiast, which honestly dont amount to a hill of beans.

We are at best less then 10% of the BMW buying public. It would turn BMW into a niche player which is great for enthusiast, but with the over head the BMW has and the amount they currently sell it would bring them right under.

So I think we need to stop talking about roll up windows and non powered seats in a 3 series, it just isnt going to happen, and honestly its not feasible.

Now what they could do though is bring some of the Euro versions over, such as the club sports with the 4 cyc they are really nice and light, or bring the CSL over. You wouldnt sell many, but enthusiasts get what they want, and everyone else gets the other 3 series models.

Yeah, I don't know what I was smoking when I wrote this. I have almost every option in my E92/
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      11-12-2008, 09:56 PM   #64
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BMW has always been something of a niche player, focused first and foremost on performance. It's what differentiates BMW from Lexus, and Mercedes, and Cadillac and a host of others. I think it lost its way when it began trying to market itself as a luxury brand in the 80's. The cars began to go soft. It became a yuppiemobile, sought after for no other reason than the cachet of the Roundel. But that carries you only so far and it's a very fickle audience. Pretty soon, they move on to the next hot thing. Even worse than that, though, was that quality began to suffer. What had been a basic, solid, reliable vehicle that you could beat to death and work on yourself became something of a technological tour de force that had too many flaws requiring an expensive battery of specially-trained technicians to fix. GM has tried mightily to appeal to everyone and look where they are. BMW can't go down that road because they can't afford to compete with the big mass marketers. They can't afford a mistake (the Land Rover notwithstanding). Keep it simple and go with who brung you. Porsche understands that better than most and they are still thriving.
Hmmm I somewhat agree with you. BMW was a niche player only because it was a small family owned company, its not because they wanted to be a smaller player or they never would have expanded.

As for technology I think you are wrong again, they may be pushing the envelope a little more now but they were always a technically advanced company, from their engines to their addons. T

They were one of the first cars to offer independent suspensions, their I6's in 1933 were way more advanced then the competition.

BMW had disc brakes on their cars in 1961 which most car companies did not begin to use till the 1990's, they had ABS back in 74.

They were not the first, but one of the first automakers to use airbags as standard.

Technology comes in all different forms and without it a company falls behind. Yes they still have to stick with performance to differentiate themselves from the pack, but really how far have they strayed?

My 330 is faster in a straight line, and I will beat is faster around a track then the 1989 E30 M3, while getting better gas mileage and having many more amenities. (Btw I have also owned an E30 M3). All this and it was only $11,000 more then a car that is almost 20 years old.

If BMW wants to keep making cars like the M3 CSL they have to build the other cars to afford to make them. As long as they dont go to FWD and auto only (like some automaker I wont mention ........cough Audi) I will be just fine.
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      11-12-2008, 09:56 PM   #65
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Yeah, I don't know what I was smoking when I wrote this. I have almost every option in my E92/
Haha no worries
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      11-12-2008, 10:27 PM   #66
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After BMW added lag to these once wonderful cars (and mine), as far as im concerned they can go POUND SOME SAND. This was my 9th BMW and my absolute last. They can take there new 3 series and drive it into a brick wall at 100mph with all the engineers in it!!!!
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