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View Poll Results: Which would you rather have at your place of work
All weapons are banned - no one has any 30 30.00%
Private security unarmed - non lethal only 4 4.00%
Private security armed - firearms 19 19.00%
weapons allowed by all employees (cannot say who gets them or does not get them) 11 11.00%
weapons allowed by employees with certification class 36 36.00%
Voters: 100. You may not vote on this poll

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      08-26-2015, 03:49 PM   #1
FenixMike
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Workplace violence poll - would you rather

Since it aligns with my line of work, im curious what others think, and of the two other boards I put this on (one car related, one gun related) I get a WIDE variance in answers even though both boards tend to be majority conservative leaning. With this board being a good split of liberal and conservative, id like to hear the opinions on here given these options.

With all the shootings lately at people's place of work, which of the following would you rather have? Why?

Explination of my available answers:
All weapons are banned - no one has any - most work places where knives, guns etc are not allowed on the property other than in your vehicle
Private security unarmed - non lethal only such as tasers, OC spray, baton, or any other device not able to normally take your life
Private security armed - firearms, handguns, can be uniformed or not, but someone full time on the property with a weapon
weapons allowed by all employees - cannot say who gets them or does not get them because then you get into discrimination (obviously no felons or those not legal to carry, although you dont have any way to verify that either)
weapons allowed by employees with certification class - whether something simple like a CCW class, state certified class etc, or a private instructor on site to teach, certify and qualify those wanting to carry, as well as qualifications to maintain this ability. Whatever the requirement though, all must take it, and anyone who passes can carry regardless if you dont like him/her and feel they will one day be the person who shoots up the place.

I purposely left out on duty/off duty police officer because most places of employment either cannot afford it, dont want the image associated with it, or the local departments dont have available resources.
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      08-26-2015, 04:08 PM   #2
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I would combine option 1 and 3. No employees have any weapons besides the security. Was a toss up for me between private security with gun or other means.
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      08-26-2015, 04:58 PM   #3
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None of the answers you offered are what I'd choose. BTW, do options one and three not already exist in workplaces around the country?



Source: Year of the data: 2013 All the best.
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      08-26-2015, 05:04 PM   #4
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No one is going to do a better job protecting your life than you are.

Security can't be everywhere, and less lethals are ineffective.

Let people keep their own self defense weapon in their desk if they want one. This option also has the benefit of being free for the employer.
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      08-26-2015, 05:50 PM   #5
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I have been working for 25 years, never needed a gun at work and don't know anyone that has needed a gun at work. Yes there is a possibility of anything but I also might get hit by lightening tomorrow and am not going to worry about it.
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      08-26-2015, 06:07 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony20009 View Post
None of the answers you offered are what I'd choose. BTW, do options one and three not already exist in workplaces around the country?

All the best.
Options 1 and 3 are both out there, however option 3 is far less common other than some facilities such as banks using a single armed guard as a deterrent. What exactly would be your suggestion?

Edit - by the way, dont kid yourself with stacked statistics on gun murders, I see the direction youre going and until they are correctly contrasted, they in no way prove either side.
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      08-26-2015, 09:25 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FenixMike View Post
Since it aligns with my line of work, im curious what others think, and of the two other boards I put this on (one car related, one gun related) I get a WIDE variance in answers even though both boards tend to be majority conservative leaning. With this board being a good split of liberal and conservative, id like to hear the opinions on here given these options.

With all the shootings lately at people's place of work, which of the following would you rather have? Why?

Explination of my available answers:
All weapons are banned - no one has any - most work places where knives, guns etc are not allowed on the property other than in your vehicle
Private security unarmed - non lethal only such as tasers, OC spray, baton, or any other device not able to normally take your life
Private security armed - firearms, handguns, can be uniformed or not, but someone full time on the property with a weapon
weapons allowed by all employees - cannot say who gets them or does not get them because then you get into discrimination (obviously no felons or those not legal to carry, although you dont have any way to verify that either)
weapons allowed by employees with certification class - whether something simple like a CCW class, state certified class etc, or a private instructor on site to teach, certify and qualify those wanting to carry, as well as qualifications to maintain this ability. Whatever the requirement though, all must take it, and anyone who passes can carry regardless if you dont like him/her and feel they will one day be the person who shoots up the place.

I purposely left out on duty/off duty police officer because most places of employment either cannot afford it, dont want the image associated with it, or the local departments dont have available resources.
I voted for weapons allowed by employees with certification class.

I wanted to vote for---
weapons allowed by all employees - cannot say who gets them or does not get them because then you get into discrimination (obviously no felons or those not legal to carry, although you dont have any way to verify that either)

However, there are insurance purposes. Just for insurance purposes, I think people who are certified under the insurance writer's cert place would be ideal.

As you said:
Unarmed security- imho waste of $ even with less-lethals (such as Taser, Batons, OC, etc)
Armed security- next best, but expensive
Off duty- very expensive, and they are already tired before moonlighting.
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      08-26-2015, 10:18 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FenixMike View Post
Options 1 and 3 are both out there, however option 3 is far less common other than some facilities such as banks using a single armed guard as a deterrent. What exactly would be your suggestion?

Edit - by the way, dont kid yourself with stacked statistics on gun murders, I see the direction youre going and until they are correctly contrasted, they in no way prove either side.
Red:
What's stacked about the statistics? Please answer with regard to the raw data (see link) that was collected so that I understand the full context of what makes the stats be stacked.

Blue:
As for the direction I'd go, it is build upon several "truisms" of which I'm quite confident:
  • The government has no business sticking its nose in the "business" of its citizens.
  • If you make something illegal, people who want that thing will bitch, moan, kill, pillage and plunder to get it if they really want to.
  • The materials needed to build a gun aren't hard to come buy and it's not that hard to heat metal to its melting point. People were doing exactly that thousands of years ago; they can do it today too. Just about anyone can cast metal and make one if they insist on doing so. Eventually an industry will develop whereby manufacturers will sell everything one needs to build a very good gun just as food companies sell cakes and brownies in a box.
  • Immature and irresponsible people who have a gun will use it and sooner or later they'll use or store it irresponsibly, and someone will get hurt or killed.
Given my belief in the above ideas, I believe the problem in U.S. with guns is the culture, and to some extent not the people who have them. There are places, places no less "sophisticated" than U.S. where damn near everyone has a gun and almost nobody gets accidentally killed. (http://world.time.com/2012/12/20/the...re-that-works/)

So what would I do? The short is that I'd shift the burden of having easy access to guns the burden of the individuals who own and use them. Ease of access would be directly linked to the behavior demonstrated by gun owners. I would also use social pressure as a motivator for reasonable and responsible gun use.
  • Implement permanently temporary, 15 year ban on all pro and anti gun control lobbying activity. I would also require that the money former spent to lobby Congress be directed toward the other initiatives noted below. The point of this is just to allow a generation of young people to grow up where responsible gun use, not the 2nd Amendment politicking, takes center stage with regard to gun use/abuse.
  • Begin teaching children from the age of 10 on about responsible and safe gun use. Continue the instruction all the way through high school.
  • I'd implement a national "sin tax" on guns that would kick in when the quantity of people who didn't have a gun among the personal effects they had at the time of their being shot by a gun reaches a given quantity. (I don't know what that quantity should be, but I do know that there is no good reason a gun wielder must fatally shoot a person who does not have access to a gun.) This approach leaves it to individuals and organizations that support and encourage gun use/ownership to manage the consequences and implications of the tax however they see fit, knowing that their actions could possibly have a direct affect on literally millions of other people.

    The tax would remain in effect until that death rate drops to 20% or more below the stated quantity, at which the tax would be rescinded until the rate rises above whatever is the rate for the year in question. The quantity would be indexed to population growth. The tax itself would be deliberately hefty: the greater of $500 or 100% of the MSRP (not the actual selling price or discounted price) of the gun.

    There would be no exceptions on this. Why? Because there are no "mulligans" when one is fatally shot.
  • I would require the publication on page 2 of ever major newspaper the name and city/town of residence for every singe person who causes an increase in the number of deaths as described above.
  • I'd launch a campaign with regard to guns not unlike the one launched and still going re: cigarette smoking. We have created a culture wherein we there are people who smoke, despite regular and graphic reminders of what the risks are, and who do so knowing full and well what the consequences are. The same needs to be happen re: guns and gun use.
  • I would implement a mandatory death penalty with expedited appeals -- meaning they get an appeal, but the appeals process would happen and complete within two years -- for all persons convicted of killing someone with a gun, be it accidental or deliberate. Why no distinction between accidents and intentional murders? Because every accidental gun death could have been prevented if the gun owner had thought enough and been responsible enough to handle the situation differently. There is always some precautionary action they could have taken and that they did not take. Most extremely, the convicted person could have chosen not to exercise their right to have a gun.
All this "hoopla" about licensing and whatnot is BS in my mind. Why? Because all that does is find more ways to spend tax revenues and it doesn't actually demonstrate nearly enough.

I have a driver's license. What does that prove? It proves that one day some 45+ years ago, I was able to demonstrate to a driving tester that I could operate a vehicle within the stated rules of the road on that day. Period. Even if I had to retake the driving test every X years, it still doesn't prove that I will not irresponsibly handle my car at any given point in time. The same principle applies to guy certification and gun handling testing.

On the other hand, I don't go to sleep with a fire burning in my fire place. I don't leave the house with the gas stove/oven on. I don't leave my home with the door unlocked and/or windows open. Why don't I do those things? Because the potential risks associated with them have a clear, present and very negative impact on me. For avoidable gunshot deaths to others (because I really don't care if gun owner kill themselves with their own gun(s)), the same circumstances must be effected if we are to realize a sharp reduction in gun-related deaths.

All the best.
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Last edited by tony20009; 08-27-2015 at 03:49 AM. Reason: corrected a mistake in the next to last paragraph
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      08-26-2015, 11:16 PM   #9
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I work the Rally and Rallycross circuits in the US and I wouldn't trust the security these places hire with anything more than a clipboard.
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      08-26-2015, 11:36 PM   #10
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I live in Australia and hence I went with ONE.
Here in the AUS you don't get nobody shooting Noone at work.
Imagine some person who had a certificate to bring on the gun had a bad day at home got divorced over the phone picked up his gun walked up behind you while you were having a pee in the toilet with your gun in your pocket and he caps you in the back of the head.
Let's be real here guns don't kill people. People kill people same ol saying.
Worst thing that happens here on aus work place are fist fights .
So what you guys all have guns it's not like counter strike where you defend your corner etc think about if if chaos broke out in an office and everyone had a gun
It would just add more fear and increase panic cause everyone got the same mentality of "omg were gonna die"
The facts are there man since our government took walkway our guns were now classed.as one of the safest countries in the world period. Anyway that's my thought. I respect all your arguments too.
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      08-26-2015, 11:52 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killramos View Post
Let people keep their own self defense weapon in their desk if they want one.
That is nuts.

This isn't a saloon in the Old West where pretty much everyone is packing.
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      08-27-2015, 01:18 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw1racer View Post
That is nuts.

This isn't a saloon in the Old West where pretty much everyone is packing.
Same mentality that people had when Florida extended the castle law to almost any place that you are legally allowed to be.. NO it did not turn into the old west and crime has gone down.. By the way, shooting in the old west was glamorized by Hollywood. The Old West was a quite peaceful place with very little shootouts ever happening statistically less than today (history books can be your friend). Violent crime rates have increased as the gun laws increased not because of the guns but because of the population. Evil is evil whether you have a gun or not. let the good people protect themselves from bad people.
By the way, I have sworn to protect and defend the Constitution, and I will do that until the day I die. The second amendment does not have a "except for the place that you are employed" clause. weather you like the idea or not, if you support the constitution and any of the other amendments you must support them all.

My $.02.
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      08-27-2015, 01:55 AM   #13
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Employees should not have guns at the workplace, that pretty tough to swallow. Pay someone to enforce the law. All i can think of are lawsuits for misconduct.
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      08-27-2015, 03:10 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killramos View Post
No one is going to do a better job protecting your life than you are.

Let people keep their own self defense weapon in their desk if they want one. This option also has the benefit of being free for the employer.
I love the this the most as it made really LOL haha
Its in the Constitution for me to be able to.defend my own desk!!
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      08-27-2015, 07:13 AM   #15
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Where I live (europe...) I don't know anybody with a gun. The chances that you run into someone who owns a gun are about as high as meeting someone who has a glider airplane..
So having collegues that bring guns to their work is a totally surreal scenario to me.

It must be equally surreal for you guys to imagine living in a society where nobody you've ever met had a gun.

Even if you stumble upon a burglar or so, chances are more than 99% that he doesn't have a gun.
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      08-27-2015, 09:23 AM   #16
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Sounds nice.
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      08-27-2015, 09:28 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david in germany View Post
By the way, I have sworn to protect and defend the Constitution, and I will do that until the day I die. The second amendment does not have a "except for the place that you are employed" clause. weather you like the idea or not, if you support the constitution and any of the other amendments you must support them all.
Prohibition was part of the Constitution as well... We all know how well that turned out.
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      08-27-2015, 09:35 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw1racer View Post
Prohibition was part of the Constitution as well... We all know how well that turned out.
you mean an amendment that increased violence and violent crimes and went against the constitution and was therefore repealed.
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Last edited by david in germany; 08-27-2015 at 09:39 AM. Reason: said revoked, meant repealed.
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      08-27-2015, 09:42 AM   #19
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Isn't it great that everyone is allowed to have their own opinion on this.
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      08-27-2015, 09:56 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by david in germany View Post
Isn't it great that everyone is allowed to have their own opinion on this.
And no person was ever killed by an opinion, either.
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      08-27-2015, 10:04 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AYEDEE View Post
I love the this the most as it made really LOL haha
Its in the Constitution for me to be able to.defend my own desk!!
Yea I'm Canadian, there is no such statement in my constitution. It's more a statement of my belief's and ideology. I live in a country where people die afraid in their beds every year because the police can't be everywhere and they aren't legally allowed to prepare adequately to defend themselves. And even if they do legally defend themselves they get to spend the next 3 years dragged through the courts on trumped up political charges.

I own lots of guns though, handguns, shotguns, hunting rifles, big scary military guns. Somehow I have managed not to murder anyone yet.
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      08-27-2015, 10:36 AM   #22
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^ You're young and have lots of guns, give it time. . .

I got my first gun for Christmas when I was 12. I've only managed to kill birds and lizards, maybe a few rodents.
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