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      09-17-2009, 04:50 PM   #67
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What's all the hate for 4-bangers?

Don't you want technology to advance so that we can get I4s with the same HP and torque as, say, an I6 but with all of the MPG benefits? This is the beginning of it; has to start somewhere.
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      09-17-2009, 04:56 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zell View Post
What's all the hate for 4-bangers?
Simple. A 2.0T sounds like a Camry, no better. Unfit for a 45K$ car.

And except in the M3, BMW has no been very good designing petrol 4-cyl. engine.
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      09-17-2009, 05:36 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
Simple. A 2.0T sounds like a Camry, no better. Unfit for a 45K$ car.

And except in the M3, BMW has no been very good designing petrol 4-cyl. engine.
Oh ... please!!!! What utter crap!!! Get your head out of your bum and you will see there is a world of great cars with I4's out there. As a person who has a current "efficient Dynamics" version of a BMW I4, let me tell you that I have plenty of power and torque to take on I6's with ecconomy to boot.
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      09-17-2009, 05:42 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
Don't ASSUME. Their reported mpg is from normal driving situation.
Bullshit. Pardon me if I find a single test done by a car magazine to be proof positive of anything. The EPA numbers are if anything too low, but I will gladly take them over C&D's single test any day of the week.

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BTW, the A4 2.0T has a real FULL PRESSURE DIRECT INJECTION, the N52 in the 328i NOT.

Bring the 2008+ European 330i with FULL PRESSURE DIRECT INJECTION and you'll get the same or better mileage as the A4 2.0T.

Proof;
A4 2.0T 7-speed auto. 211HP
9.3 / 6.3 / Combined 7.4L/100km

Euro 330i Step 272HP
10.2 / 5.9 / Combined 7.4L/100km.
You're right. The unsourced numbers cited by some guy virtually shouting down everyone who disagrees with him in some internet forum is proof.
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      09-17-2009, 05:45 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Socom View Post
Actually that's not true.
2010 MY; Combined MPGs 2010 Audi 2.0 Quattro vs 2009 328Xi: 23 vs 20

Curb weights fluctuate I found the following A4 2.0 Quattro vs BMW 328XI: 3,626 vs 3,605.

All in all the differnce in MPG's is irrelevant.
Looking at the 2009 models, from the EPA's website:

BMW 328xi (manual): 20 MPG combined http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/2008c...umn=1&id=25900

Audi A4 2.0 Quattro (manual): 25 MPG combined http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/2008c...umn=1&id=25896

The curb weight figure was obtained from Edmunds.com, for whatever that's worth.
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      09-17-2009, 06:18 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkp1187 View Post
Bullshit. Pardon me if I find a single test done by a car magazine to be proof positive of anything. The EPA numbers are if anything too low, but I will gladly take them over C&D's single test any day of the week.



You're right. The unsourced numbers cited by some guy virtually shouting down everyone who disagrees with him in some internet forum is proof.
Wow. Some people need have everything explained in details. That's weak.

Hint for ya; the figures I gave come from their European sites respectively.
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      09-17-2009, 08:40 PM   #73
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and how about this nonsense

BMW Says All Future Diesel Models for U.S. Will Be All-Wheel Drive

jim-odonnell-bmwna-ceo-blog.jpg

Inside Line spoke with Jim O'Donnell, CEO of BMW North America, today and learned that all future diesel models the company brings to the U.S. will be all-wheel drive.

That likely means the BMW 335d's days are numbered. There's already a diesel version of the X5. At minimum, we'll expect to see a diesel X3.
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      09-17-2009, 09:02 PM   #74
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It's good they're offering a 4 for their CAFE stats, but I'd never buy one.

BMW=I6 or it's not a BMW, for me.
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      09-17-2009, 09:10 PM   #75
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I hope they are not bringing in the 4 cylinder to get rid of the 6, like the Audi A4.
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      09-17-2009, 09:20 PM   #76
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Six or Four? I'm reminded of the old TV commercial for the Audi 5000, with the white-coated German engineer justifying the new 5-cylinder engine: "Four vas too small, und Six vas too bulky!"
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      09-17-2009, 09:23 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWDAD View Post
and how about this nonsense

BMW Says All Future Diesel Models for U.S. Will Be All-Wheel Drive

jim-odonnell-bmwna-ceo-blog.jpg

Inside Line spoke with Jim O'Donnell, CEO of BMW North America, today and learned that all future diesel models the company brings to the U.S. will be all-wheel drive.

That likely means the BMW 335d's days are numbered. There's already a diesel version of the X5. At minimum, we'll expect to see a diesel X3.
That kills what little respect, and it was indeed little, that I had for BMW of North America.
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      09-17-2009, 11:02 PM   #78
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Sorry but I have driven, 8s,6s and 4s and there wasn't one 4 I liked in 25 years of driving. They are not smooth and refined, most 4s age badly power wise (they become guttless as they age), and one of the reasons I bought my BMW was for the excellant motor the BMW inline 6 is. I may be baised against 4 cylinder cars but they are definitely not for me. I know BMW sells alot of 4 cylinders in Europe but given the choice of a 6 or a 4 there is no comparison as far as I'm concerned.
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      09-18-2009, 02:17 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Socom View Post
I really don't undstand how BMW is going to obtain significant fuel savings on a turbo'd 4cyl gasoline vs a simliar performing NA 6 cyl engine. It's not like BMW cars are loosing weight either. Maybe they'll be diesel??
Lower frictional losses
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      09-18-2009, 06:23 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWs4ever View Post
Sorry but I have driven, 8s,6s and 4s and there wasn't one 4 I liked in 25 years of driving. They are not smooth and refined, most 4s age badly power wise (they become guttless as they age), and one of the reasons I bought my BMW was for the excellant motor the BMW inline 6 is. I may be baised against 4 cylinder cars but they are definitely not for me. I know BMW sells alot of 4 cylinders in Europe but given the choice of a 6 or a 4 there is no comparison as far as I'm concerned.
+1!
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      09-18-2009, 06:49 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWDAD View Post
and how about this nonsense

BMW Says All Future Diesel Models for U.S. Will Be All-Wheel Drive

jim-odonnell-bmwna-ceo-blog.jpg

Inside Line spoke with Jim O'Donnell, CEO of BMW North America, today and learned that all future diesel models the company brings to the U.S. will be all-wheel drive.

That likely means the BMW 335d's days are numbered. There's already a diesel version of the X5. At minimum, we'll expect to see a diesel X3.
Something sounds suspicious about that. I don't think they would have gone through all of that trouble to market the diesel 3-er just to get rid of it 2 or 3 years later. Maybe he meant they'll be bringing over the 335xd? Or maybe that they'll bring over smaller engined 3xx diesels with RWD? If they're moving to 4-cyl, why not move to 4-cyl turbo diesels? If I'm gonna have a fuel efficient 4-banger, it might as well be really fuel efficient.
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      09-18-2009, 07:08 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkp1187 View Post
Looking at the 2009 models, from the EPA's website:

BMW 328xi (manual): 20 MPG combined http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/2008c...umn=1&id=25900

Audi A4 2.0 Quattro (manual): 25 MPG combined http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/2008c...umn=1&id=25896

The curb weight figure was obtained from Edmunds.com, for whatever that's worth.
I was looking at A/T (which is how most of these cars sold in the U.S. are equiped)
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      09-18-2009, 07:10 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poggy View Post
Lower frictional losses
I believe there's a marginal benefit to the I4, but a gasoline powered 300 hp I6 isn't significantly less efficient than a gasoline powered 300 hp turbo I4.
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      09-18-2009, 07:15 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maswastage View Post
Something sounds suspicious about that. I don't think they would have gone through all of that trouble to market the diesel 3-er just to get rid of it 2 or 3 years later. Maybe he meant they'll be bringing over the 335xd? Or maybe that they'll bring over smaller engined 3xx diesels with RWD? If they're moving to 4-cyl, why not move to 4-cyl turbo diesels? If I'm gonna have a fuel efficient 4-banger, it might as well be really fuel efficient.

I think BMW will see how the '10 335d sells.At this point the 335d needs a $4500 rebate to sell.
BMW will have to offer that rebate or lower the list price $4500 to make the 335d sellable.BMW should leave the rebate.People love rebates.
Is BMW willing to do that or will they just import 4 cyl diesels?
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      09-18-2009, 08:24 AM   #85
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Doesn't the Mini Cooper have a turbo I-4 engine option? Could BMW use that engine?
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      09-18-2009, 08:35 AM   #86
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Wow, how quickly we forget that BMW was largely built on the success of the I-4 in the 1600-2002. And that most BMWs sold in Europe are 4cyl. Must be a lot of really stupid people over there that don't understand a real luxury car like a BMW should have at least a 6 cyl engine or it will tarnish its reputation... Not.

I guess the architects got it horribly wrong when they designed the Munich headquarters: BMW-Vierzylinder

I can't wait for the 4cyl turbo Z2. I think it will be one of the most exciting cars BMW has ever built.
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      09-18-2009, 09:02 AM   #87
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Quote:
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Wow, how quickly we forget that BMW was largely built on the success of the I-4 in the 1600-2002. And that most BMWs sold in Europe are 4cyl. Must be a lot of really stupid people over there that don't understand a real luxury car like a BMW should have at least a 6 cyl engine or it will tarnish its reputation... Not.

I guess the architects got it horribly wrong when they designed the Munich headquarters: BMW-Vierzylinder

I can't wait for the 4cyl turbo Z2. I think it will be one of the most exciting cars BMW has ever built.

I remember that, but I also remember that the cars weighed a lot less, and there wasn't much in terms of competition at the time (Big Detroit or rust bucket Asian). People already pay a premium for the Roundel, and BMW has raised prices, to make room for all those who wanted a 1-series which pushed the 3-series even more out of reach.

In my area I've noticed a lot of new 328's sedans. The dealerships are stocked full of them and the average MSRP is $42k. 335i's are $50k. Unless gas prices go up again, I seriously doubt BMW will be successful selling heavy 3-series with an I4 and base price of $40k (assuming the base will be this by the time the I4's roll out in 2012). I guess we'll just have to wait and see how heavy the next car is.

I don't have anything against an I4 (I'm looking at rejoining the VW family via Jetta TDi, and I had a Jetta in the last decade), but I'm weary about an I4 in a "premium" car. I dunno, maybe there are plenty of badge whores who will buy BMW regardless.
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      09-18-2009, 09:16 AM   #88
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# of cylinders has always had a correlation with worth of vehicle, exclusivity etc.

4's are economy-level
6's are a step up
8's are powerful
10's are rare
12's are exotic
16's...well there's only 1 car that i know of that has that and it's the Veyron

i'm not suggesting that a 4 can't compete with a 6 b/c it can. it's just this thing that's been driven into our heads for a long time about cars and engines. there's an identity thing going on with the 3 series and inline 6's.

my .02
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