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      09-18-2009, 10:10 AM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ellipsis212 View Post
# of cylinders has always had a correlation with worth of vehicle, exclusivity etc.

4's are economy-level
6's are a step up
8's are powerful
10's are rare
12's are exotic
16's...well there's only 1 car that i know of that has that and it's the Veyron

i'm not suggesting that a 4 can't compete with a 6 b/c it can. it's just this thing that's been driven into our heads for a long time about cars and engines. there's an identity thing going on with the 3 series and inline 6's.

my .02
So true. I'm having an intense dicussion with my spouse over the Tdi I4.
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      09-18-2009, 10:13 AM   #90
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How about a 320d or 330d for about the same price or less than the 328i? Seems like that would also be a good solution. I would think that either of the diesel engines would get better mpg than the turbo I-4. The downside would be that it would make the 335d hard to justify for those balancing mpg/enviromental concerns with performance.
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      09-18-2009, 10:50 AM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kugasman View Post
How about a 320d or 330d for about the same price or less than the 328i? Seems like that would also be a good solution. I would think that either of the diesel engines would get better mpg than the turbo I-4. The downside would be that it would make the 335d hard to justify for those balancing mpg/enviromental concerns with performance.
Judging from what I've read at Frankfurt with bmw's diesel/electric hybrids we may get an updated version of both. 330d is a single variable vane turbo currently for sale in the UK. It has a lighter AL engine block vs. the older Iron block of the 335d. Be question is how much will you $$?
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      09-18-2009, 11:41 AM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cookiemonster View Post
Great a $50,000 3 series with a 4cyl. engine. Status only goes so far.
Can you please attach the pricing you are now quoting for 2012? Also let me know where you got it from because I am very curious.
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      09-18-2009, 05:04 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stressdoc View Post
Wow, how quickly we forget that BMW was largely built on the success of the I-4 in the 1600-2002. And that most BMWs sold in Europe are 4cyl. Must be a lot of really stupid people over there that don't understand a real luxury car like a BMW should have at least a 6 cyl engine or it will tarnish its reputation... Not.
Stop rewriting History. The 2002 started to have success WHEN A SIX CYLINDER WAS USED.

And in Europe top of the line 3-series do have SIX CYLINDER; they have even more choice than here.
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      09-18-2009, 07:37 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
Stop rewriting History. The 2002 started to have success WHEN A SIX CYLINDER WAS USED.

And in Europe top of the line 3-series do have SIX CYLINDER; they have even more choice than here.
dude are you serious? the 2002 was a 4 cylinder. so was the first m3.... many great BMW 4 cylinder engines.

yeah... 6 cyl bmw 3 series do exist in europe... but who said they didn't?
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      09-18-2009, 08:54 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markinva View Post
dude are you serious? the 2002 was a 4 cylinder. so was the first m3.... many great BMW 4 cylinder engines.
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      09-18-2009, 09:20 PM   #96
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BMW has always been known for its I4. Even the original building in Munich was constructed in honor of its original 4-cyclinder.

There is nothing like a BMW Inline 6- the sound at start-up, during acceleration during rundown, all so incredible and smooth and strong. I'd like to see a small displacement turbo four and a naturally aspirated I6 for the next 3er. A 320ti and a 330i. The next M3 can have the twin turbo I6.

All this being said, in driving the 325i on straight highway jaunts I get 32mpg, compared to 36mpg in my MINI Cooper. With all of the power and refinement, I think that's pretty good.

I say bring on the BMW 4 cylinders. Welcome back!
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      09-18-2009, 09:21 PM   #97
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One issue I have with 4 bangers is that they don't sound as good (or deep) as V6s. That's IMO of course. I have a 2.5L V6 Jag and the engine on that sounds simply amazing (designed by Porsche and sold to Ford). And also a 3.0L I6 325xi. I have yet to find a 4 banger that can reproduce that kind of sound that I crave. Yes there are many faster cars that are I4 turbos, but I don't get that special feeling driving them. They just feel like regular commuter cars. They don't make me want to take the long way home like even my jag and bmw make me feel.

That said, lets see how BMW's I4 is like before i pass judgment on it.
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      09-18-2009, 09:35 PM   #98
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Seriously, foot off the gas, just pressing the starter button and getting that first little computer-controlled startup vroom and then the smooth low idle is just one of the joys of the BMW I-6. No four or V6 feels like that or can feel like that, IMO, especially if it's transverse. And even my "anemic" 215hp NA MT sings in the twisties at 5k rpm, smooth as glass. Really fun.
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      09-19-2009, 07:14 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markinva View Post
dude are you serious? the 2002 was a 4 cylinder. so was the first m3.... many great BMW 4 cylinder engines.
Honestly, I always thought that the 140HP version in the 2002Tii (similar to China Syndrome movie) was a 6-cyl. Backtrack; I stand corrected. I still don't want a Camry-like sounding 4-cyl. in a 45K$ car, though.
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      09-19-2009, 07:33 AM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Socom View Post
..... the older Iron block of the 335d.
Not in my 335D - it is an alloy block, has been for 3 years now. The older spec 535Ds had the iron block.

D.
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      09-19-2009, 09:08 AM   #101
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BMW will offer four cylinder turbo charged engines in line with the next generation 3er across the world. Six cylinder options will still be available.

The 1er completes the transition to use Three and Four cylinders only.
The BMW 1er Coupe SuperSports and the BMW Z2 Roadster and Coupe will be powered by turbo charged four cylinders - no six cylinders will be used in these performance concepts.

In line with the new M3 BMW will introduce a new "M1" which will be an interesting retrospect in not having a standard series model.
The "M1" will be a two seater lightweight sports car powered by a Turbo charged 3 cylinder petrol engine which will be developed by the M Division.
As a showcase for an Efficient production sports concept.

Having forgoing the opportunity to create a direct competitor for range topping sports cars in favour of the "Efficient Dynamics" programme.
BMW are considering a small sports car using lightweight materials with a kerb weight of or just over 1000kg. Based entirely on the 1er modular platform which offers the flexibility of having rear or front wheel drive , front , mid or rear engined configurations. This two seater mid engined concept will sit below the next M3.

BMW want to change the rules in regarding premium sports cars by offering something completely unheard of before. A concept of compact Sports car , Lightweight ,dynamic, efficient and equally thrilling to drive at a fraction of a cost of a larger competitor.

This concept is being considered in consideration with the expansion of the next 1er platform and the variants that come along with it.
BMW are keen to extend their profit margin on the compact segment. The segment that will experience more growth than any other segment.
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      09-19-2009, 10:45 AM   #102
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If you guys are pissed about a 4cyl in a 3er, you'll hate the 3cyl thats going in the 1ers...

I wouldn't mind driving a 320d everyday. If that car was available in the US I would definitely consider that over a 335 depending on where I'm living/my economic situation at the time.

57mpg in a 3 series sounds pretty damn good to me. Especially with all that torque from the diesel...
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      09-19-2009, 12:06 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArabianSensation View Post
If you guys are pissed about a 4cyl in a 3er, you'll hate the 3cyl thats going in the 1ers...

I wouldn't mind driving a 320d everyday. If that car was available in the US I would definitely consider that over a 335 depending on where I'm living/my economic situation at the time.

57mpg in a 3 series sounds pretty damn good to me. Especially with all that torque from the diesel...
couldn't agree more, surprised I haven't heard complaints in this thread about the alleged 1.8l 3cyl turbo that's supposed to go in the 1ers
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      09-20-2009, 05:35 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
BMW will offer four cylinder turbo charged engines in line with the next generation 3er across the world. Six cylinder options will still be available.

The 1er completes the transition to use Three and Four cylinders only.
The BMW 1er Coupe SuperSports and the BMW Z2 Roadster and Coupe will be powered by turbo charged four cylinders - no six cylinders will be used in these performance concepts.

In line with the new M3 BMW will introduce a new "M1" which will be an interesting retrospect in not having a standard series model.
The "M1" will be a two seater lightweight sports car powered by a Turbo charged 3 cylinder petrol engine which will be developed by the M Division.
As a showcase for an Efficient production sports concept.

Having forgoing the opportunity to create a direct competitor for range topping sports cars in favour of the "Efficient Dynamics" programme.
BMW are considering a small sports car using lightweight materials with a kerb weight of or just over 1000kg. Based entirely on the 1er modular platform which offers the flexibility of having rear or front wheel drive , front , mid or rear engined configurations. This two seater mid engined concept will sit below the next M3.

BMW want to change the rules in regarding premium sports cars by offering something completely unheard of before. A concept of compact Sports car , Lightweight ,dynamic, efficient and equally thrilling to drive at a fraction of a cost of a larger competitor.

This concept is being considered in consideration with the expansion of the next 1er platform and the variants that come along with it.
BMW are keen to extend their profit margin on the compact segment. The segment that will experience more growth than any other segment.
Exciting stuff! I can't wait to see the 1er SuperSport, M1 and Z2 Coupe!
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      09-21-2009, 08:22 AM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_3 View Post
Not in my 335D - it is an alloy block, has been for 3 years now. The older spec 535Ds had the iron block.

D.
Interesting. Whenever I read comparisons of the 330d engine to the 335d it's "Aluminum vs Iron". My error.
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      10-02-2009, 02:49 PM   #106
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Efficient dynamics rocks

Thank you Scott, wonderful. My next car will be a Z2 supersport. At 1000 kilos, with its 4cyl turbo (~286 bhp), it will smoke any current BMW model and still get >30mpg. Any thoughts on the roadster vs. coupé versions? Pity the poor Audi TTS when the Z2 hits the streets.

And Michael, surely you cannot defend BMWNA's decision to import 335d and not 330d or 320d? What BMW needs now is not some goof comparing light bulbs to autos. Audi's ad with the barrels of oil rolling back onto the oil tanker is way better. We need 320d's running laps past Priuses (and tdi's) on the 'ring, and going across a map of the USA from NY to LA on four tanks of fuel (<$200). It wouldn't surprise me if one of the mpg nuts could do it for <$100 of fuel.

Efficient dynamics => cars that are more fun to drive than our current luxo-barges.

I remember my 2,000 lbs. 4 cyl. 2002tii well. It was a blast to drive. Then government regulations and the luxury-tech arms races set in and our cars bloated to 4,000 lbs. Efficient dynamics is brilliant.

Seriously folks, it is time to get our brains out of the last century.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
BMW will offer four cylinder turbo charged engines in line with the next generation 3er across the world. Six cylinder options will still be available.

The 1er completes the transition to use Three and Four cylinders only.
The BMW 1er Coupe SuperSports and the BMW Z2 Roadster and Coupe will be powered by turbo charged four cylinders - no six cylinders will be used in these performance concepts.

In line with the new M3 BMW will introduce a new "M1" which will be an interesting retrospect in not having a standard series model.
The "M1" will be a two seater lightweight sports car powered by a Turbo charged 3 cylinder petrol engine which will be developed by the M Division.
As a showcase for an Efficient production sports concept.

Having forgoing the opportunity to create a direct competitor for range topping sports cars in favour of the "Efficient Dynamics" programme.
BMW are considering a small sports car using lightweight materials with a kerb weight of or just over 1000kg. Based entirely on the 1er modular platform which offers the flexibility of having rear or front wheel drive , front , mid or rear engined configurations. This two seater mid engined concept will sit below the next M3.

BMW want to change the rules in regarding premium sports cars by offering something completely unheard of before. A concept of compact Sports car , Lightweight ,dynamic, efficient and equally thrilling to drive at a fraction of a cost of a larger competitor.

This concept is being considered in consideration with the expansion of the next 1er platform and the variants that come along with it.
BMW are keen to extend their profit margin on the compact segment. The segment that will experience more growth than any other segment.
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      10-02-2009, 03:08 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
Honestly, I always thought that the 140HP version in the 2002Tii (similar to China Syndrome movie) was a 6-cyl. Backtrack; I stand corrected. I still don't want a Camry-like sounding 4-cyl. in a 45K$ car, though.
I hope you will feel corrected on both counts. [tii was 4 cyl., and BMW 4 cyl engines don't sound or feel like a Toyota; moreover, let's hope that you are wrong on a third count and that the new 1 series will be more like $30k]
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      10-02-2009, 03:10 PM   #108
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4-cylinder =
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      10-02-2009, 04:25 PM   #109
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4-cylinder =
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      10-02-2009, 04:57 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stressdoc View Post
let's hope that you are wrong on a third count and that the new 1 series will be more like $30k]
I hope you are right. However it will be interesting to see how BMW positions the 1 Series SS or tii or whatever it is they want to call it this week. A 135 is 30k plus depending on options. So I would think a 135 SS would be more since it will (should) have lighter weight and I think would be equipped with some goodies like a LSD, special colors, unique badges etc...


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