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      02-15-2011, 04:12 PM   #23
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I don't care what anyone says, but not much in the same price range can match the handling of a BMW... for car enthusiasts anyway. Then you're talking porsche, jag, etc

For your average joe who wants to get from point A to point B with 300hp under the hood, a BMW is just an overpriced toy when they can get something like a Genesis for cheaper. And I don't blame them... I would do the same.

For me, 10 years after it was was built, I still get massive amounts of pleasure driving my E46 330Ci with almost 200K km on the clock. I have not once, ever, driven a modern asian automobile (Mitsu, Acura, Lexus, etc) and been able to come remotely close to the handling and drive quality of my 10 year old car.... and my E90 is just as pleasant to drive, if not more refined than the E46.

I simply don't understand reviews that bring a car like the Genesis on par with a 3-series (335). I've tried the Genesis. It handles like butter. It handles like most other Asian cars.

I even drove my friend's fully loaded C300 the other day and the handling felt like butter, it sucked... and my friend thought his hair was going to catch fire when he pushed my E90 through corners he would never have tried with his merc. He said the driving experience was like having the car on rails.
Was it the C300 Sport? If so, I find that odd because my friend has one and it handles very well. Probably as good or slightly better than my previous 325Ci Sport when it was stock...aside from that, I still found the drive to be slightly boring :/
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      02-15-2011, 04:13 PM   #24
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idk Hyundai is making good design these days... i mean my country full of sonatas already... not that I would take one over a 3er
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BMW have tapped into this by mirroring typical BMW dynamics and steering communication within the new UKL cars.
You mean massive body roll, a steering system that is not connected to the front wheels, and the engine note played through the speaker system?!?!?!?!
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      02-15-2011, 04:19 PM   #25
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At the risk of sounding like a BMW snob, which 3 series shopper, in their right mind, is going to consider a Hyundai as an alternative? The new Hyundai's are great cars, don't get me wrong. But no comparison.

I have a hard time even considering an A4, C class, G37, TSX, CTS, etc as opposed to the 3 series, let alone a Hyundai....
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      02-15-2011, 04:24 PM   #26
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      02-15-2011, 04:29 PM   #27
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They make good cars for the price. But imho that is why they get such good reviews. No one was expecting anything from them. People have/had low expecations. When those exceptions were met everyone was happy.
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      02-15-2011, 04:33 PM   #28
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      02-15-2011, 04:37 PM   #29
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      02-15-2011, 04:43 PM   #30
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this reminds me of the movement that our friends at VW (People's Car?) attempted when they tried to sell $75k V8 Touaregs and $100k Phaeton's, and guess what!? they didnt sell - but the idea was NOT to sell Phaetons and Touregs, the idea was to sell $35k Jetta's in its top trim level... when sitting at the dealership i guess they could try and convince people to buy BMW prices for a crap car like a Jetta, when its sitting beside a $100k luxury sedan. Now the jetta's are back to $15-20k where they should be. The Hyundai story will follow the same suit, whos gonna buy a 35k Hyundai thats "almost as good" as a BMW, when they can have a BMW for a bit more? do they really think that people are really 'shopping' around this segment. Reminds me of a saying "you can get a real good look at a T-bone steak by sticking your head up a bulls ass, but you may as well take the butchers word for it!"
Its the way the car speaks to you, its soul, and its connection to the driver and the road, NOT the specs on paper or auto magazines... or 3.8L engines vs 2.8L ones...
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      02-15-2011, 05:02 PM   #31
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In marketing this is called "an aspirational PR tactic"

They can basically say whatever they want. They might not be even ready to start to compete and that's pretty clear. C'mon guys..did you ever seat on one of those?

What they are looking and actually achieving is the buzz and the controversy.

Just look at this thread. Mission accomplished!

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      02-15-2011, 05:03 PM   #32
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It will still be a Hyundai at the end of the day. Even if it is reliable, I won't have the soul of a BMW.

This is almost like arguing that a Mustang GT is as good as an M3 because MT could make the GT go around some track for one hot lap as fast as the M3.
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      02-15-2011, 05:09 PM   #33
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Regardless of the numbers, a Hyundai is still a Hyundai just like a Ford is still a Ford. Sure, a mustang gt could keep up with m3 around a circuit, but id save up for an m3 any day. Same with my 3 series. BMW, as with audi, and Mercedes, has a prestige and history. Hyundai needs to earn this.
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      02-15-2011, 05:10 PM   #34
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Wouldnt say hyundai are too close think it just shows the 3-series is the car to beat. I have a what the yanks would call a tibouran over here its just a coupe, compared to the 330d coupe I am getting in a few weeks the BMW is 2.5x what I paid for my coupe. handling and styling it still turns heads and the power although not great is a good mix between power and economy.

As for hyundai being cheap and not mechanically there, my coupe is 5.5 yrs old, its done 165k miles, it had 5yrs unlimited milleage warranty. Apart from the normal servicing which was quite expensive and every 10k miles all ive had to pay for is a new clutch/fly wheel at 153k and a brake caliper at about 70k. The higher end hyundai are bullet proof because they are simple.

The interior is where hyundai really gets let down mine was one of the best interiors hyundai did and its still kinda cheap looking, as soon as you come down to some of their lower range the plastics are appauling.

Dont think BMW have much to worry about at the moment but they must be careful, they are trying to save money and standards seem to be slipping and mechanically they are no way as robust as they used to be with stupid mistakes being made like the hpfp issue and the cracking alloys and the disappearing head washers in icey weather.

Where hyundai might start nicking BMW owners is if they up their game and keep the price a lot lower, especially in these times. Even if they get somewhere close but for half the price think some people will be turned, most on here are BMW through and through and have a badge snobery. I bought BMW cause it had the best diesel power and best fuel consumption, with the number of miles I do fuel consumption was high on my list. When I narrowed it down to proper coupe's that were diesel, I ended up with the A5 and 3 series coupe, there was not much in price but for similar power levels the 3'er was much better fuel consumption.

Different people buy cars for different reasons, most BMW car drivers are no where near as loyal to the brand as you guys so this should not be taken as much of a laugh as you guys seem to think.

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      02-15-2011, 05:10 PM   #35
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What's Hyundai?
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      02-15-2011, 05:14 PM   #36
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I put Hyundai in the same category of Honda and Toyota. Their name does not pop up when talking about luxury cars.
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      02-15-2011, 05:28 PM   #37
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Well the Hyundai Genesis did win the North American Car of the Year in 2009, so that means something doesnt it? They've come a long way and it will take time to change the perception of the Hyundai brand from 10 years ago and in that process I think they will continue to improve the quality of their vehicles just as other products of Korea ie Samsung, LG, etc.. Do I think the new Genesis will be on par with the new 3? Probably not but I think they achieved what they were trying to strive for which is creating a buzz about Hyundai regardless of whether it is positive or not.
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      02-15-2011, 05:49 PM   #38
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[quote=Diver;8921133]It will still be a Hyundai at the end of the day. Even if it is reliable, I won't have the soul of a BMW.

+10000.
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      02-15-2011, 05:50 PM   #39
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Well the Hyundai Genesis did win the North American Car of the Year in 2009, so that means something doesnt it? They've come a long way and it will take time to change the perception of the Hyundai brand from 10 years ago and in that process I think they will continue to improve the quality of their vehicles just as other products of Korea ie Samsung, LG, etc.. Do I think the new Genesis will be on par with the new 3? Probably not but I think they achieved what they were trying to strive for which is creating a buzz about Hyundai regardless of whether it is positive or not.
you hit the nail right on the head. its all about perception and it will take lots of time to change it. the 3 series isnt that great with all the fuel pump issues. niether is the c class, but people keep buying due to the "prestige" and perception of a bmw or merc.
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      02-15-2011, 05:56 PM   #40
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E for effort Hyundai has stepped up there game though
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      02-15-2011, 06:02 PM   #41
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i hope it does become a serious competitor. maybe it will force BMW to add more standard features instead of having to put another $5-10k in options
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      02-15-2011, 06:12 PM   #42
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you hit the nail right on the head. its all about perception and it will take lots of time to change it. the 3 series isnt that great with all the fuel pump issues. niether is the c class, but people keep buying due to the "prestige" and perception of a bmw or merc.
What took the Japanese a decade to achieve, the Koreans are doing in half the time. Yes, the Genesis may not even be a blip on BMW's radar but they are adapting very quickly. The Genesis model was a game changer for Hyundai and proved they could produce luxury vehicles and this was just the 1st generation. Give them more time to refine their designs and change market perception and you will be pleasantly surprised.
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      02-15-2011, 06:17 PM   #43
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Well the Hyundai Genesis did win the North American Car of the Year in 2009, so that means something doesnt it? They've come a long way and it will take time to change the perception of the Hyundai brand from 10 years ago and in that process I think they will continue to improve the quality of their vehicles just as other products of Korea ie Samsung, LG, etc.. Do I think the new Genesis will be on par with the new 3? Probably not but I think they achieved what they were trying to strive for which is creating a buzz about Hyundai regardless of whether it is positive or not.
I agree with you. 10 Years ago, would you have bought a Samsung TV over Sony or Panasonic?

Probablly not. Samsung, LG (formerly Zenith's) were the laughing stock of the electronics world...maybe not Samsung, but Zenith was...now when people buy TV's the high class brand is Samsung...so things can change...in this competitive market, BMW better not get to cocky...In economy, mid class car world, Honda has gotten cocky and I think Hyundai will surpass the quality of Honda if it hasn't already.
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      02-15-2011, 06:32 PM   #44
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At the risk of sounding like a BMW snob, which 3 series shopper, in their right mind, is going to consider a Hyundai as an alternative? The new Hyundai's are great cars, don't get me wrong. But no comparison.

I have a hard time even considering an A4, C class, G37, TSX, CTS, etc as opposed to the 3 series, let alone a Hyundai....
Actually, we just went from a E92 328i to a Hyundai.

Believe it or not, it wasn't even on our radar as a replacement for the BMW when the process first started. We only went to look after about 2+ months of futile search for the perfect X3 replacement when my wife suggested we look at other brands.

Hyundai was pretty far on the bottom of the list for us. We actually looked at Cadillac SRX and CTS wagon, both of which were ruled out for various reasons. Hyundai was on the list because one of the companies we sell to has an existing relationship with Hyundai and through that relationship we could get associate discount.

Off the cuff we went to test drive a new 2011 Tucson. 30 minutes later we left the dealership. My wife and I looked at each other and the first words out of both of our mouths were "that was a Hyundai?" The second words were "now what?" In my hearts of hearts, I was so sure we're going to end up with an X3. Heck, we've had at least 1 3 series in the garage (sometimes 2) for the last 10 years. Except for a short stint with a 350Z, I've driven NOTHING but BMWs for almost 15 years.

So on we went, continue to hunt for that perfect X3. But the more we shopped, the more we couldn't ignore that little nagging voice in the back of our head. The Tucson drove GREAT. Had great gas mileage. Had comparable interior space. Had better interior design. Had better exterior design. Had better interior material. Comes with panoramic roof, touch-screen hard drive based navigation, heated seats, and back-up camera. Acceleration numbers and cornering, on paper, is nearly on par. And a NEW Hyundai would still have been THOUSANDS less than the used X3. Plus 3 more years on the bumper to bumper warranty, and 7 more years on the powertrain.

I keep trying to convince myself that the X3 is still the better car. Finally the Hyundai dealership called us back and told us the bad news. They have a white Tucson optioned EXACTLY the way we wanted in the showroom. My wife said "let's just go take a look."

That was that. We ended up with a Tucson in the garage. 6 months and 7,000 miles later, I asked her if she ever misses her BMW. She shot me an evil look and said "are you kidding me? I can't believe we wasted all that money for years on BMWs."

I know none of you can ever hold down your nose long enough to give it a quick look. But after owning
the Tucson for 6 months I've been keeping an eye on everything Hyundai, and frankly? They're doing things right. The new Tucson we picked up is 200 lbs lighter than the out-going Tucson, is larger in every dimension, and has a more powerful engine while being more fuel efficient. And it's built like a tank. It's significantly tighter and handles almost as well as my '09 WRX wagon, while being far more comfortable than my MZ4 Coupe.

I'll be glad to say, if Hyundai really builds a 4 door 3 series competitor, I'd be happy to buy it instead of a BMW for the next round.
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