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      02-17-2011, 12:30 PM   #89
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I will sum it up ...Hyundai is a POS and that is all there is, I am scared of even thinking how high must these CEOs be to make such idiotic comments....no offence to the Koreans here..you have to understand they just wants their bonus and get the hell out....

I wouldnt even take a Hyundai or caught dead in it if I were given one for free....or may be even if someone paid me to drive one...

The Germans with rule the EU economy......
What the hell are you talking about.
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      02-17-2011, 01:48 PM   #90
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Hyundai?? LOL they could never make a competitor to the 3 series. That's like Ford making a competitor to the M3....oh....wait.....
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      02-17-2011, 03:50 PM   #91
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..I think that people in this shit Korean company which is called hyundai get nuts!that is so silly to beat the 3 series
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      02-17-2011, 04:34 PM   #92
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Where? The Gen Coupe V6 is slower than the Mustang V6, and way slower than the G37 I believe and is a pony car competitor, it is not a lux coupe---if you ever have seen the interior, you'd know this...The 4 cyl variants are rough as well...Basically Hyundai reps are talking out of their asses, and need people like you to believe them

If Hyundai can actually pin down where they want this car---it is a entry level coupe, and stop with the wolfing, then maybe it might be "interesting". It will take more than 3 yrs to get into this segment, and they need to actually do the Lexus thing and create a lux arm for the Gen brand, instead of "Hyundai"

You do know that they apparently bring the Equus to your home to test drive---so you don't see it in the dealership next to a Sonata? Epic fail on less confusion...
Below is a link to the article. I'll summarize the verdict for you:

"4th place: Dodge Challenger SE
A yacht trying to keep up with speedboats, but the ride and style are smooth.

3rd place: Chevrolet Camaro RS
A quick coupe whose weight sacrifices fun and cartoonish cabin compromises comfort.

2nd place: Ford Mustang V-6
New 3.7 is nearly as quick as last year's 4.6-liter V-8, and more fun to drive, too.

1st place: Hyundai Genesis 3.8 Track
The only one that looks and feels like a sports car. Surprise, we liked it best.
"

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/..._v6_track.html

I noticed that you drive a Lexus - I suppose you are just upset that the Equus just beat an LS 460. Have YOU sat in a genesis or a sonata? I rented a sonata ("downgraded" from an accord v6 according to the rental car agent) and it was every bit as good as the accord. Not up to BMW standards yet but give it five years. If Hyundais are beating Lexuses today, BMW may not be far behind unless they step up their game.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...i_equus_page_3

BTW I have no allegiance to Hyundai, and have been a BMW guy for many years. I just like to give credit where it's due!
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      02-17-2011, 05:02 PM   #93
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Nobody is going to buy a Toyota luxury car instead of a Cadillac"
General Motors 1992


Hyundai learned from Lexus and Toyota. Lexus did not attempt to take customers from Cadillac. They saw that every year the average age of a Cadillac buyer increased by one year and that if that trend continued in 25 years the average age of a Cadillac buyer would be dead. Lexus also saw that the hard core Cadillac fans could not accept that the brand had gone seriously downhill and was building some very medioce (at best) products. Lexus was primarily marketing to younger buyers who were just entering the luxury car market. Lexus' core market was 40 to 50 year olds who bought a Corolla when they were 20, a Celica when they were 25 and a Camry when they were 35. They grew up with the brand and were loyal to it.

Hyundai is not attemting to convert any BMW or Mercedes owners. Hyundai is not marketing to the hard core BMW fans. They are looking to the future the same way Lexus did in 1992. If Hyundai continues in the direction that they are going in today, in a few years when young buyers who today are just entering the new car market are ready to move up market they will be seriously considering Hyundai products and will see no stigma attached to the brand. These future buyers may be saying "My Father used to think BMWs were great. He had a 2008 335i and the thing was in the shop all the time. He had to have 13 high pressure fuel pumps replaced and it had these horrible run flat tires that used to get destroyed every time he hit a pothole"

Lexus blindsided BMW and Mercedes in 1992 when they released the LS400 with impeccable build quality and a V8 engine for less than the Germans were selling their 6 cylinder sedans for. Both BMW and Mercedes scambled to get competitive V8 models out to compete.

There may be some people here are will dismiss Hyundais as "Cheap Korean Junk" but anyone who does not think that BMW will be buying Hyundai products taking them apart and going through them with a fine tooth comb is very naive.


"Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it"
CA
This guy knows what he's talking about... may I add that when 10-15 years pass, Hyundai will have the field advantage over any luxury car brand: Lower price tags!
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BMW have tapped into this by mirroring typical BMW dynamics and steering communication within the new UKL cars.
You mean massive body roll, a steering system that is not connected to the front wheels, and the engine note played through the speaker system?!?!?!?!
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      02-19-2011, 02:52 PM   #94
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Wow

I certainly hope that some of you are not high ranking decision-makers within your organization. Being so dismissive of a competing organization shows a lack of wisdom and the complete absence of foresight.

Anyway, although I own a Merc, I am a BMW fan/former owner...but not too close-minded to believe that Hyundai could not build something relative to the article's suggestion. More power to 'em!
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      02-21-2011, 11:57 AM   #95
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Well guys, I actually own both and I have to say that the Genesis 4.6 that I have is a much more reliable car so far than my E93 328i. The BMW is always in the shop for something, usually electronics. Until I replaced the runflat tires it rode like a buckboard. New ceramic brake pads cured the industrial strength brake dust accumulating after only one day. I have no complaints about BMW service I just wish I needed less of it. The Genesis on the other hand, has never been back to the dealer for any reason at all. The 385hp V8 is impressively powerful, the build quality for $10k less than the 328i is on par with it. Granted the Genesis is not as sporty to drive but in most cases there is little opportunity to explore the limits of either. In terms of acceleration the 328i convertible is a dog. My wife is the one who had to have this car. I too at one time thought that BMW ownership would be the ultimate. Now not so much. Since we have the full maintenance and service CPO warranty until 100k miles, that is precisely how long I will have this car. After that, hopefully Hyundai will have a luxury convertible. No one should own a BMW out of warranty.
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      02-21-2011, 12:12 PM   #96
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...my E93 328i.
...the build quality for $10k less than the 328i is on par with it.
That's not really a good price comparison though. A better one would be a Genesis and the E90, in which case the prices are very similar.

But in general I agree with you - I have driven the Genesis and think that it is an amazing car for the money.
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      02-21-2011, 01:30 PM   #97
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I've seen lots of people driving the Genesis sedan in my neighborhood (and its a neighborhood with lots of luxury vehicles). Hyundai has made a very compelling car for lots of buyers. It will take time to "dethrone" the 3series, but they will put a dent in 3 series with their first or second attempt. A car doesn't have to match up 100% for someone to consider it against another car. A perfect illustration of this point is all of the people who purchased Acura TSX's. Some of those people were considering 3 series.
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      02-22-2011, 11:06 AM   #98
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They should improve their dealerships a bit more than anything, the cars will improve no matter what, but the sales experience and service are also very important.

If my BMW or MB breaks down(which it does), I just go in, drop it off get a loaner and go about my day. Minor hassles, Hyundai should strive to reach this level of service somehow. Not sure if it's possible with their low margins, but they have more PhDs and MBAs than HBS and HMS so I am sure they will figure it out.
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      02-22-2011, 01:42 PM   #99
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e90 has been my only 2nd car that I ever owned. That being said I have driven quite a number of vehicles but not extencively. My previous car was a 04 accord coupe V6 6 speed manual fully loaded and that car was a great first purchase. It was reliable and also pretty fun to drive. Interior was supprisingly nice to the touch and didnt feel cheap as other jap cars I have driven. Honda also had 90% of the features I have in my E90 now.
Now even though I loved my old honda and it had some things that were better than my bmw I still think e90 is a better all around package. I had same thoughts as many of consumers do now days that 3 series are overrated and overpriced up until I test drove the first e90. At first the car felt different in a good way but after I ended up buying it the more I drove it the better it felt. That driving feel is just hard to copy and when you find out all the extra little features car has then you realise why they charge premium for this car.
Hyndai has improved drastically like everyone mensioned and they will probably match the performance of the 3 series really soon just like ford did with the 5.0 but that feel of driving a bmw will be tough to replicate. Many have tried over the years and came close but never succeded.
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      02-22-2011, 07:12 PM   #100
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They should improve their dealerships a bit more than anything, the cars will improve no matter what, but the sales experience and service are also very important.

If my BMW or MB breaks down(which it does), I just go in, drop it off get a loaner and go about my day. Minor hassles, Hyundai should strive to reach this level of service somehow. Not sure if it's possible with their low margins, but they have more PhDs and MBAs than HBS and HMS so I am sure they will figure it out.
Interestingly...

My wife had dropped off the Tucson for an oil change a few months ago, and she said her experience with the local Hyundai dealership was 10X better than the BMW dealership. She didn't make an appointment, just drove up and drop the car off. They put her in a loaner so she can go about her business, because she didn't want to wait a couple of hours behind the queue. No questions asked. Dropped off the loaner at the end of the day to find the Tucson washed and vacuumed. All for $20.00. And had it been a scheduled oil change instead of my insistence on a break-in oil change, it would have been free.

Not that our local BMW dealership is bad, but if we need a loaner, they put us in a rental that we have to pay for.
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      02-23-2011, 08:00 PM   #101
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As I stated in an earlier post Hyundai is targeting a younger buyer who is looking to spend less than a BMW costs just as Toyota did in the 70s. When that buyer gets older and more affluent Hyundai will be ready with a car for him to move up to and there is a good chance that he will remain loyal to the brand.

As for heritage, there is a point in time at which that does not really matter. Does anyone buying a BMW feel that it has less heritage than a Mercedes because Mercedes is an older company? Are Lamborghini buyers concerned that the brand is younger than Ferrari? A 25 year old car buyer will not view a brand that has been around all of his life as the new kid on the block or as an upstart. We are at the point now where it is possible that there are Lexus buyers who rode home from the hospital they were born in in a Lexus. The reality is that Lexus, BMW and Mercedes are running about neck to neck in terms of sales in the Luxury and Near Luxury segments.

If there is anyone here who won't buy a Hyundai because they don't think it has a status image or because the brand lacks "herigage", Hyundai is not trying to convince you otherwise. They are looking to the future and are planning to be there waiting in 10 to 20 years when the people who are driving Sonatas today are ready to move up the ladder.

So you can post on a BMW forum all day stating "LMAO", "BMW FTW", "BMW>Hyundai" ,"Hyundai will never compete with BMW" or "I would never buy a Hyundai". Hyundai is not trying to sell to you. They know where their market is now and they know where they want it to be in 15 years. If they have a sales motto it is probably "Today Honda and Toyota, Tomorrow BMW and Mercedes"

What some of the people here don't seem to realize is that in 1968 BMW was the upstart and General Motors had 50% of the domestic market. The BMW 1600 appealed mainly to younger people who were looking for a good performing affordable car. To the mass market the 1600 did not have the prestige of a Camaro Z28, Pontiac GTO, or Boss 302 Mustang let alone a Cadillac or a Buick.

And perhaps Hyundai does have "a long way to go" and perhaps it it will "take a long time". It took BMW a long time and it took Toyota (Lexus) a long time. Hyundai knows that and they are prepared to wait. You can counter with all the "A Lexus is a rebadged Toyota with no soul" posts you like. The bottom line is that those who are voting with their wallets are voting for BMW and Lexus in about equal numbers and I have no reason to doubt that in 10 to 15 years Hyundai will be a prominent player in that space as well. Whether you happen to agree with the reasoning behind the choice of the buyers of BMWs competitors or not is irrelvant. A lost sale is a lost sale and lost market share is lost market share. Telling the stockholders that it doesn't count because the sales were lost to "inferior brands", "cars with no soul or heritage" or "Korean junk" is simply not going to fly.


CA
I agree 100%. I believe that many BMW enthusiasts are also CAR enthusiasts. Many of us buy it because we love the "feel" of driving it and the fact that a BMW label and reputation is attached to that "feel" seals the deal. However, if any other car company whether it be Hyundai or Audi became superior in that driving "feel" I believe there would be many people more than happy to switch. Hopefully BMW will constantly improve and keep the market lead but the moment they slip, there will be many options out there. Hyundai included.
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      02-24-2011, 09:58 AM   #102
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Interestingly...

My wife had dropped off the Tucson for an oil change a few months ago, and she said her experience with the local Hyundai dealership was 10X better than the BMW dealership. She didn't make an appointment, just drove up and drop the car off. They put her in a loaner so she can go about her business, because she didn't want to wait a couple of hours behind the queue. No questions asked. Dropped off the loaner at the end of the day to find the Tucson washed and vacuumed. All for $20.00. And had it been a scheduled oil change instead of my insistence on a break-in oil change, it would have been free.

Not that our local BMW dealership is bad, but if we need a loaner, they put us in a rental that we have to pay for.
This is excellent service indeed.
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      02-24-2011, 10:56 AM   #103
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Hyundai or nsx will prob be my next car.

glad to see people with history and reason comment !

when hyundai started they had engine,alternator , water pump problems and in 10 years ended up fixing everything and making a great reliable economy car at a great price. fast forward abit to the redesigned sonata and they have a camary killer on their hands and similar other competitors cars.

FF abit further and they release the EQUUS.. while still need updates (seems like it will be yearly updates and this year 5.0 8sp trans, possibly AWD) they have a truely luxury car that can go toe to toe with 100k competitors.

im sure they will put that v8 5.0 in the genesis coupe and have a beast killer on their hands. work a turbo 6 in the lineup of any of their other cars and they win again. hybrid technology... time will tell its not out enough yet by hundai, but id bet they did a good job on that too !

30k for a gensis vs 40k for an infiniti vs 50k for a bmw. Im F tired of my bmw in the shop for stupid sht, squeeking brakes, squeaks in the car, engine & hpfp grief.

bmws are in the shop many times for every hyundai, lexus, or infiniti. If bmw could reduce those visits then they've improved.

bmw never again.

ppp



p.s. good read... http://www.conceptcarz.com/vehicle/z...t-Genesis.aspx
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      02-24-2011, 12:39 PM   #104
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I used to work at a hyundai dealership. I can honestly say the company is making leaps and bounds. The Genesis is an amazing car for the value, and if you are patient enough and okay with a year old model you have an opportunity to get into a $40,000 loaded V8 for around $34,000 with no miles..

The service is spectacular as well.. No questions asked, and almost always give them a loaner.


are the cars BMW quality? no. Fit and finish is pretty similar though. And the warranty is siiick
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      02-24-2011, 12:49 PM   #105
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I seriously contemplated a Genesis coup myself. I ended up settling on a used e90 for the 4 doors. However, I would like to point out that the turbo-4's they put in them are the SAME EXACT motor the Evo's get. Slap a different ECU and a larger turbo on and bam instant 300 HP and tuned even more. That is all from a 18-20k dollar car. The ECU and tune would cost maybe 2k. Show me where BMW give that kind of bang for your buck. To look at 300 HP your looking at at minimum of 40k.

Its not about build quality because honestly every car on the road is made of plastic these days. Federal regulation causes more and more "safety features" to be added to cars every year. That is heavy unneeded crap. Which requires alternative materials to offset the cost and weight. Do not kid yourself thinking BMW is the only company who builds quality, they cut costs like any other business. Because they are a business and they do what is best for their bottom line.

We bought my wife a Kia in 2005. Its still under warranty. Oh and I didn't even have to pay extra for that. 10 year, 100,000 mile power-train. If you want to claim they are terrible companies just look at Kia's actual reputation in the past 5 years. Almost spotless, where as when they started the brand was garbage. Their customer service was amazing and the one time the car needed to be fixed. We were in and out in under a week.

Talk trash all you want. But those who refuse to see the world around them are doomed to miss the best things in life.
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      02-24-2011, 01:48 PM   #106
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Wow the responses in this thread really make me shake my head. To paraphrase a few:

"Take 'em both downtown and see who gets more tail"

Really, you need a car to pull ass? That's Fn lame.

"They're POSs"

Ok, is that why they beat BMW in initial quality and durability?

"Just because the 5.0 beat the M3 around a track doesn't mean it's as good as an M3"

So it's rated higher in quality and reliability, and also residual value (look it up), and now it's just as fast, but it still can't even compare? Why not? All measurable aspects of the comparison are close if not well in favor of the Mustang already. There's only so much "je ne sais quoi" a car can have (which BMWs do have, especially the 3er) before reality takes over.

Hyundai may not have the "soul" part of the driving experience down, but let's not pretend they don't beat BMW at reliability, initial quality, and now residual value as well (considering the 335 and 328 together). It's only so long before they nail down the "soul" of the car.

I think this is good for everyone. Hopefully it convinces BMW to get their heads out of their asses and start packaging more into their cars and quit cutting corners in so many ways. Hyundai shouldn't catch BMW in its own 3-series playground, but if they do it'll be nobody's fault but BMW. And as much as I love the BMW's I've owned, I owned them simply because I liked them better than the other options. It had nothing to do with who made them, just that they were the cars I liked best. If something comes along that's better, I have no problem jumping ship. I'm sure BMW would be fine though, even if there are better options out there, because they will always have their rabid fanboi base. That will keep them afloat forever.
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      02-24-2011, 02:56 PM   #107
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..I think that people in this shit Korean company which is called hyundai get nuts!that is so silly to beat the 3 series
sh*t company, LOL... because Syria has given so many epic contributions to the automotive world?! hahahahahaha... your ignorance is a joke.

and regarding other comments about how any bmw / luxury owner would never consider a hyundai, i guess i must then be the exception. i'm considering replacing my infiniti with a hyundai for my daily. it's gotten to the point where hyundai has closed the gap so much between its japanese (and luxury) counterparts that you really forget about the badge. end of day, similar performance, better warranty, all for a cheaper price tag... the only person who'd care otherwise is someone that insecure.
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      03-02-2011, 10:11 AM   #108
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I thought it will take Hyundai 3-4 years to get into this segment. Well the genesis coupe has gotten great reviews in the sporty coupe segment (beating the '11 Mustangs) so this should be interesting. The genesis has the power and the handling down, I guess it just needs to be more luxurious and refined to compete with the F30.
I know this is a bit late but..

The Genesis coupe was beat by the 2011 V6 mustang at VIR even though the stang was limited to 115mph the entire back stretch, in a Car and Driver test.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features...p_2011-feature

The 2011 5.0 was even faster, and as you can imagine the gt500 a few more seconds faster still.
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      03-02-2011, 02:30 PM   #109
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what people are overlooking with these cars is the experience at the dealership when buying and subsequently while servicing. Have you ever stepped foot in a Hyundai or Kia dealership? I did when looking to buy a cheap knock-around car for my wife to drive locally. Yeah. I quickly realized the error of my ways, spent the extra 20k and bought an XC90 R-Design.

The cars look nice...I've even caught myself turning my head to watch a genesis coupe go by. But the dealerships? Their salesmen? Their mechanics? You'd have the same experience buying something from a used car lot and bringing your car to Pep Boys for service.
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Last edited by rocco; 03-02-2011 at 02:50 PM.
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      03-06-2011, 06:31 AM   #110
Time Lord
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Thats true but they do have 100k mile warrenty
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