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      03-10-2011, 10:37 AM   #111
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Don't matter, its like comparing a filet mignon to a Burger King's 2 for 1 special. No way idc how much Hyundai's progress/excel nothing like a traditional I-6 RWD 6 speed built from Munich Germany. The sensation you get from the minute you hop onto a bmw is incomparable to a genesis coupe or w/e.. When I hopped into my first e90 330. Felt like i lost my virginity to the hottest chick. I would def. feel different if I hopped into a genesis coupe. I'd be prone to question the car, like if I was doing some slut thats questionable to std's... BMW FTW anyday!
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      03-10-2011, 12:52 PM   #112
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They have the technology to make a great car but so do Mercedes, Infiniti etc. The thing is that to compete with an outstanding car like 3 series they have to spend a lot of money on engineering, development, parts, etc.

All this will bump up the price. It is harder to make a compact in 30k base price range than making a mid-size in 35k-40k range because they both cost the same to engineer and relatively the same to build. What they need is volume to recoup the cost. Withough volume they cannot compete with 3 series.

The genesis coupe is a good car for the price but it is no 3 series competitor. If they want to make it 3 series competitor they have to increase the price by at least 5k to use better materials and sand down some rough edges. In that case they loose their value edge on BMW.
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      03-10-2011, 02:06 PM   #113
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what people are overlooking with these cars is the experience at the dealership when buying and subsequently while servicing. Have you ever stepped foot in a Hyundai or Kia dealership? I did when looking to buy a cheap knock-around car for my wife to drive locally. Yeah. I quickly realized the error of my ways, spent the extra 20k and bought an XC90 R-Design.

The cars look nice...I've even caught myself turning my head to watch a genesis coupe go by. But the dealerships? Their salesmen? Their mechanics? You'd have the same experience buying something from a used car lot and bringing your car to Pep Boys for service.
That's not anything specific to Hyundai. I've had my share of experiences of walking out of BMW dealerships after dealing with sleezy salesman or incompetent techs working on my car (tech forgot to put on the undercover tray after doing an oil change, how hard is it to do an oil change? Did you not notice the tray sitting on the floor after my car drove away? Oh you did notice but instead of calling me, I had to find out for myself when I put on my exhaust and instead you decided to WAIT for me to come back a few weeks later)?
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      03-10-2011, 02:26 PM   #114
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what people are overlooking with these cars is the experience at the dealership when buying and subsequently while servicing. Have you ever stepped foot in a Hyundai or Kia dealership? I did when looking to buy a cheap knock-around car for my wife to drive locally. Yeah. I quickly realized the error of my ways, spent the extra 20k and bought an XC90 R-Design.

The cars look nice...I've even caught myself turning my head to watch a genesis coupe go by. But the dealerships? Their salesmen? Their mechanics? You'd have the same experience buying something from a used car lot and bringing your car to Pep Boys for service.
You really should reconsider that statement. my family has owned Hyundai franchises since 1995. Yes they may have been slightly in shambles back then when the cars were peices of shits. But My dealership offers more goodies then my local BMW dealer that i go into for service.

We offer prepaid maintenance for 3/30. Our store now is only 5 years old, and is as well-designed and maintained as any high line store around us. We offer at home pick up and delivery for sales & service. Our loaners are SE-Limited Sonatas and are never more then 5k miles and cleaned weekly. meanwhile @ beamer. I get base model 3 series with NO gas and coffee stains every where. (SOOO skeeevy).

As far as comparing the actually cars .... I drive the best 3 series you can get before an M. ABSOLUTELY in NO WAY can a Genesis Coupe (even the 3.8 track edition) compare to my car. However... I also frequently drive a Genesis Sedan 4.6 v8 loaded with DIS (Hyundais form of iDrive).. and i have to say, in almost every category the Genesis blows the 3 series sedan out of the water.... (Comfort, interior styling, options, handling, etc) ...

As far a reliability is concern. My brand new 10 335 has had 30+ days in-service. I am in the service dept in our dealership and can personally stand behind the fact that Hyundai's dont have anywhere NEAR as much problems as beamers.



Sorry but people really need to stop hating on Hyundai's. They have come a longgg way since they 90s when they were complete piles.

My $60k BMW is a piece of shit and I know it. But i still love it... and ill live with it. But from driving every Hyundai out there. I gotta say, even the 2011 Sonata Turbo will give a 328 sedan a run for its money.
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      03-10-2011, 02:28 PM   #115
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That's not anything specific to Hyundai. I've had my share of experiences of walking out of BMW dealerships after dealing with sleezy salesman or incompetent techs working on my car (tech forgot to put on the undercover tray after doing an oil change, how hard is it to do an oil change? Did you not notice the tray sitting on the floor after my car drove away? Oh you did notice but instead of calling me, I had to find out for myself when I put on my exhaust and instead you decided to WAIT for me to come back a few weeks later)?
I have the same problem. The same tech works on my car every time and continuously nails my D/S side skirt with his lift. And everytime I rip him a new one, and the guy STILL doesnt learn. Everytime I bring my car in for a problem, it leaves with 2 new issues. Just had clips replaced on my interior trim, not my door locks, hazards, and DTC buttons are all inop. (poor quality work)
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      03-10-2011, 02:46 PM   #116
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When I hopped into my first e90 330. Felt like i lost my virginity to the hottest chick.
You must never get laid by hot chicks to think this is a valid metaphor.
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      03-10-2011, 08:47 PM   #117
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What I like about Hyundai, (some brands should take notice...cough Honda cough)...they are not resting on their past strides and innovations, they are continuing R+D ....an updated 3.8 V6 for the Genesis will be out by the end of the year sporting DI 333hp/290tq.....not bad, and should get better mileage than the current 3.8 ...two years after its release, (engine is actually a litte older) and now they are throwing thier hats in into the luxury performance ring with an R-Spec version of the sedan boasting DI 5.0 liter V8 with 429hp/376tq......
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      03-14-2011, 04:01 PM   #118
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Dude, I wouldn't even categorize Japanese vehicles (Lexus/"Glorified Toyota", Acura/"Over-priced Honda", Infiniti/"SameCrap As Nissan") with BMW... NONETHELESS spend the same amount of $ to buy them.

Are they freaking serious? A Hyundai? That's like saying an Untouchable can be compared to the ruling caste in India.

A lot of cars have HP & Amenities... but there is definitely a level of pride and well-deserved haughtiness involved in ownership of a German vehicle and that is something that will take a lot longer than 25 years of car-manufacturing history to parallel. I give you this though Hyundai... you've done a good job of copy all the exterior details of a BMW.

Let's Face It! It is not like someone can be proud of "owning a Hyundai" Not just yet... only time will tell ... but I don't think it is in my lifetime this will happen.
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      03-14-2011, 04:10 PM   #119
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I must agree that Hyundai is not on the same level as BMW yet but their reliability is definitely better. It sucks when my car goes in for yet another repair and my neighbors are asking whats up with the car now? Never had an issue with my Santa Fe just wish the oil change intervals were a bit further apart.
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      03-14-2011, 05:42 PM   #120
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After purchasing a BMW (because it was a brand i havent tried) i have wondered about other cars. i have owned pontiac, gm, chevy, 2 hondas, mazda, nissan, lexus, mercedes, audi, but never owned a hyundai.

why? because it was the basically the only brand available in korea where i lived in the early 80's and my family owned 3 and every dad in my neighborhood had one.

but now the cars are 180 degrees different from how they were and you also have to consider that the company is only 60yrs old at the most. and founded by a korean war survivor who sold rice and bicycles in the early 50's.

so the point is, i believe its easier for a airplane / engine developing COMPANIES during the WWII (merc, BMW, etc. )to build a car than someone to from ground up especially someone out of the genre to begin with.

and its also sad that these companies with rich 100+yrs history of auto racings, developments and heritage has to compete with a company that has never raced in a Le Mann in its history...

its almost like watching that "are you smarter than a 5th grader" tv show... and hyundai is the 5th grader.

count back 60 or so yrs and see who's R+D developed vastly and who hasnt. if someone can go from selling rice and bicycles in 60 yrs or so, shouldnt someone already building cars should have developed at least a flying ones by now? (bit of sarcasm).

only reason people think its better is because of the name and euro elegance. look how long and god knows how much lexus and infiniti had to spend to just now recently be accepted by US market and yet still struggle in european market.

you just cant compare the asian efficiency to european indulgence.
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      03-15-2011, 10:50 AM   #121
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These days is not about how long you have been in the business. The more relevant question is who do you merge with. Building cars is not rocket science, the technology that one company develops is rapidly acquired and imitated by another. Anyone can make a safe and reliable car these days. Any car maker can manufacture a car that looks great on paper, with all the features and amenities you could ever desire. On paper an Equis or a Genisis is evey bit as good as it's targets, but spend some time in one and if you appreciate cars you will notice it's failings. There are plenty of people who will never know the difference. For those people Hyundai represents an amazing value. The challenge is making a machine that moves you and stirs your emotions. It's my opinion that Hyundai fails on this. Their products lack innovation and design. They are like first generation Lexus always chasing after Mercedes. Until you can lead you will always be second best.
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      03-15-2011, 01:58 PM   #122
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People, firstly, need to realize that hyundai uses engines that were co-designed with chrysler and mitsubishi motors. To generalize their engines as atrocious just because of their past, is unfair and has no bearing on the new motors. That being said, bmw will always have a bullseye on its brand. Its flattering, actually.
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      03-15-2011, 02:38 PM   #123
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The Asian automakers have yet to match the driving precision that BMW vehicles offer.
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      03-15-2011, 04:09 PM   #124
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The Asian automakers have yet to match the driving precision that BMW vehicles offer.
but at 1/2 the cost?
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      03-15-2011, 05:34 PM   #125
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but at 1/2 the cost?
Well, at 1/2 the cost they still have yet to match the driving precision that BMW vehicles offer.

And I'm no Hyundai hater - before I bought the 328i I test drove a Genesis sedan and was extremely impressed. If only you could get it with a manual...
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      03-15-2011, 09:30 PM   #126
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Dude, I wouldn't even categorize Japanese vehicles (Lexus/"Glorified Toyota", Acura/"Over-priced Honda", Infiniti/"SameCrap As Nissan") with BMW... NONETHELESS spend the same amount of $ to buy them.

Are they freaking serious? A Hyundai? That's like saying an Untouchable can be compared to the ruling caste in India.

A lot of cars have HP & Amenities... but there is definitely a level of pride and well-deserved haughtiness involved in ownership of a German vehicle and that is something that will take a lot longer than 25 years of car-manufacturing history to parallel. I give you this though Hyundai... you've done a good job of copy all the exterior details of a BMW.

Let's Face It! It is not like someone can be proud of "owning a Hyundai" Not just yet... only time will tell ... but I don't think it is in my lifetime this will happen.
Based on their progress, I personally can say I would be proud to have one.
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      03-16-2011, 02:22 PM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SE3P_to_E90 View Post
but at 1/2 the cost?
And it shows when you put these cars on a lift & examine the parts/material used.
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      03-16-2011, 03:30 PM   #128
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I don't know what BMW does, but when you drive one, you find yourself wanting to get back into the car and just cruise around more.
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      03-20-2011, 08:17 PM   #129
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You really should reconsider that statement. my family has owned Hyundai franchises since 1995. Yes they may have been slightly in shambles back then when the cars were peices of shits. But My dealership offers more goodies then my local BMW dealer that i go into for service.

We offer prepaid maintenance for 3/30. Our store now is only 5 years old, and is as well-designed and maintained as any high line store around us. We offer at home pick up and delivery for sales & service. Our loaners are SE-Limited Sonatas and are never more then 5k miles and cleaned weekly. meanwhile @ beamer. I get base model 3 series with NO gas and coffee stains every where. (SOOO skeeevy).

As far as comparing the actually cars .... I drive the best 3 series you can get before an M. ABSOLUTELY in NO WAY can a Genesis Coupe (even the 3.8 track edition) compare to my car. However... I also frequently drive a Genesis Sedan 4.6 v8 loaded with DIS (Hyundais form of iDrive).. and i have to say, in almost every category the Genesis blows the 3 series sedan out of the water.... (Comfort, interior styling, options, handling, etc) ...

As far a reliability is concern. My brand new 10 335 has had 30+ days in-service. I am in the service dept in our dealership and can personally stand behind the fact that Hyundai's dont have anywhere NEAR as much problems as beamers.



Sorry but people really need to stop hating on Hyundai's. They have come a longgg way since they 90s when they were complete piles.

My $60k BMW is a piece of shit and I know it. But i still love it... and ill live with it. But from driving every Hyundai out there. I gotta say, even the 2011 Sonata Turbo will give a 328 sedan a run for its money.
Have you visited the Kia dealer in Philadelphia? I went in looking at a Sorrento for my wife. You'd walk out feeling the same way. And I'm sorry, the performance and quality haven't been sustained over a long enough period for me to buy in yet at the prices they are asking. I won't plunk down 36k (! optioned the way I wanted) for a car that less than ten years ago was a piece of tin that sold for 19. Similar experience at the Hyundai dealer here. When all of the garbage these two manufacturers made over the years is off the road, perhaps then paying 40 grand will be easier to stomach.

I'm not saying there aren't shady tactics employed by bimmer salespeople or techs, but you generally don't walk out with gum stuck to your shoe.

Last edited by rocco; 03-21-2011 at 09:40 AM.
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      03-20-2011, 10:58 PM   #130
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I don't care what anyone says, but not much in the same price range can match the handling of a BMW... for car enthusiasts anyway. Then you're talking porsche, jag, etc

For your average joe who wants to get from point A to point B with 300hp under the hood, a BMW is just an overpriced toy when they can get something like a Genesis for cheaper. And I don't blame them... I would do the same.

For me, 10 years after it was was built, I still get massive amounts of pleasure driving my E46 330Ci with almost 200K km on the clock. I have not once, ever, driven a modern asian automobile (Mitsu, Acura, Lexus, etc) and been able to come remotely close to the handling and drive quality of my 10 year old car.... and my E90 is just as pleasant to drive, if not more refined than the E46.

I simply don't understand reviews that bring a car like the Genesis on par with a 3-series (335). I've tried the Genesis. It handles like butter. It handles like most other Asian cars.

I even drove my friend's fully loaded C300 the other day and the handling felt like butter, it sucked... and my friend thought his hair was going to catch fire when he pushed my E90 through corners he would never have tried with his merc. He said the driving experience was like having the car on rails.
Well said! I couldn't agree more.
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      03-21-2011, 09:08 AM   #131
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Thanks e90will! Will look into one... Hope the Curiosity Doesn't Kill This Cat! ;)

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Based on their progress, I personally can say I would be proud to have one.
Thanks for the update... I guess it does make me curious enough to go test drive one.

Hate to admit it but unfortunately cost is still a great motivating factor in deciding what to purchase.

Now honestly... if I had unlimited resources... I wouldn't consider either a Hyundai or a BMW.
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      03-21-2011, 10:50 AM   #132
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I think its great seeing them trying to step up to BMW. They might not get there but they are coming out with some great cars compared to other badges in that price sector.
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