F30POST
F30POST
2012-2015 BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum (F30 / F32) | F30POST > 2012-2019 BMW 3 and 4-Series Forums > General F30 Sedan / F32 Coupe / F36 Gran Coupe Forum > M-sport brakes sluggish performance
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      08-21-2013, 12:46 PM   #1
3magine
mhmmmm
 
Drives: f30 bad man
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Toronto

Posts: 558
iTrader: (2)

M-sport brakes sluggish performance

BIMMERPOST
     Featured on BIMMERPOST.com
First I'd like to say that I've not driven another f30 so can't compare to anything else, but I did own a 2009 135i and I thought the stock brakes were far superior to the m-sport on my f30.

I remember the 1 series brakes engaging as soon as the brake pedal was tapped. On the f30 I find there is about a half an inch of travel to the brake pedal where nothing happens. When I do press the pedal all the way I don't find the brakes as strong in stopping the car as they were on the 1 series.

Can anyone shed some light on this. The people with m-sport brakes, do you have pedal travel as well before the brakes are engaged?
3magine is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      08-21-2013, 12:49 PM   #2
300hp
Colonel
 
Drives: X5 & 335xi
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: USA

Posts: 2,859
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3magine View Post
First I'd like to say that I've not driven another f30 so can't compare to anything else, but I did own a 2009 135i and I thought the stock brakes were far superior to the m-sport on my f30.

I remember the 1 series brakes engaging as soon as the brake pedal was tapped. On the f30 I find there is about a half an inch of travel to the brake pedal where nothing happens. When I do press the pedal all the way I don't find the brakes as strong in stopping the car as they were on the 1 series.

Can anyone shed some light on this. The people with m-sport brakes, do you have pedal travel as well before the brakes are engaged?
I have an E70 X5 35i and msport 335i. No complaints here, both sets of brakes do a solid job of stopping both cars
__________________
EBII 2014 335i xDrive
335HP, Sport AT, 19" Wheels, MPE, Prem, Tech, Cold, HK, Driver Assist & DH pkgs

Deep Sea Blue Metallic 2013 X5 35d Sport
Prem, Convenience, Cold and Premium Sound packages
300hp is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-21-2013, 01:20 PM   #3
trey100
Lieutenant
 
Drives: 2014 335xi Msport 6MT
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New York

Posts: 452
iTrader: (0)

I haven't received my msport 335 yet, but the sport line versions I drove all had that 1/2" dead zone. Coming from my Infiniti, where the brakes were very strong and sensitive, I also found it unnerving but am hoping it is more that my previous car's brakes were touchy.

By the way, are you talking about stock M Sport line brakes or the $650 option M Sport Brakes? I ordered the latter.
trey100 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-21-2013, 01:28 PM   #4
bimmerjph
Lieutenant Colonel
 
bimmerjph's Avatar
 
Drives: 2002 BMW 325i
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Tennessee

Posts: 1,974
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3magine View Post
First I'd like to say that I've not driven another f30 so can't compare to anything else, but I did own a 2009 135i and I thought the stock brakes were far superior to the m-sport on my f30.

I remember the 1 series brakes engaging as soon as the brake pedal was tapped. On the f30 I find there is about a half an inch of travel to the brake pedal where nothing happens. When I do press the pedal all the way I don't find the brakes as strong in stopping the car as they were on the 1 series.

Can anyone shed some light on this. The people with m-sport brakes, do you have pedal travel as well before the brakes are engaged?
How many miles are on the car?
bimmerjph is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      08-21-2013, 01:31 PM   #5
3magine
mhmmmm
 
Drives: f30 bad man
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Toronto

Posts: 558
iTrader: (2)

I have the optional m-sport upgraded brakes. The car has around 1500 km on it. I made an appointment at the dealer for the limp mode I've experienced twice now and the brakes. In all honesty I don't like the brakes. I'm not impressed with the performance and the dead zone bothers me a lot. Not what I expected from performance brakes.
3magine is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      08-21-2013, 01:49 PM   #6
trey100
Lieutenant
 
Drives: 2014 335xi Msport 6MT
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New York

Posts: 452
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3magine
I have the optional m-sport upgraded brakes. The car has around 1500 km on it. I made an appointment at the dealer for the limp mode I've experienced twice now and the brakes. In all honesty I don't like the brakes. I'm not impressed with the performance and the dead zone bothers me a lot. Not what I expected from performance brakes.
That sucks. What's the point of 4 piston Brembo brakes and large rotors if they don't feel like an upgrade. I was hoping that dead spot went away if I got the upgraded brakes. Actually it's 2 levels up as the msport gets the better pads already.
trey100 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-21-2013, 02:00 PM   #7
JNoSol
Captain
 
JNoSol's Avatar
 
Drives: F06 and E70-Sport
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Kansas City

Posts: 929
iTrader: (0)

Interesting. Brembo brakes may have a certain operating temp requirement for it to work well. I know it great for track and prevents fading.

BMW stock brakes are very well designed, but mSport brakes do look better.
JNoSol is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      08-21-2013, 02:16 PM   #8
Rossifumi
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Rossifumi's Avatar
 
Drives: Some BMW
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Sweden

Posts: 1,649
iTrader: (0)

When warm they are quite nice. But when you use them in slow traffic to and from work they are just as the people above describe them.
Rossifumi is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
      08-21-2013, 03:52 PM   #9
Bimmerfestool
Private First Class
 
Bimmerfestool's Avatar
 
Drives: .
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: USA

Posts: 198
iTrader: (0)

I have a friend who has complained about the brembos on his STX as well so maybe it's a Brembo thing. I know on my other car, a '14 Huyndai Santa Fe, the brakes are very touchy and it's annoying. You have to be very delicate in order to modulate braking. They may SEEM better because they brake full power as soon as you touch them but this is like the sport throttle, just an illusion.
Bimmerfestool is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      08-21-2013, 07:06 PM   #10
Dozhdbog
Major
 
Dozhdbog's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 335i Sedan
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Hollywood

Posts: 1,489
iTrader: (0)

Could also be a product of the brake regeneration system for the battery.
__________________
2011 E90 / Premium Package / Stage 2 PPK / Performance Suspension
Dozhdbog is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      08-21-2013, 07:19 PM   #11
justinnum1
Brigadier General
 
Drives: 2013 335i Msport
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: South Florida

Posts: 3,998
iTrader: (0)

there certainly is more pedal travel, but the car stops.
__________________
F30 335i Msport Estoril Blue/Black leather sport auto. black grills, Performance Exhaust, HK,
justinnum1 is online now  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-21-2013, 08:06 PM   #12
jamesems
First Lieutenant
 
Drives: 2013 335i msport f30
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: San Diego

Posts: 388
iTrader: (0)

Make sure there's no air in the system. Mine had an incredible dead zone. Wasn't right. Took it back and they bled it correctly. Much improved
jamesems is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-21-2013, 08:07 PM   #13
3magine
mhmmmm
 
Drives: f30 bad man
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Toronto

Posts: 558
iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmerfestool View Post
They may SEEM better because they brake full power as soon as you touch them but this is like the sport throttle, just an illusion.
Not a very good analogy comparing to sport throttle. If the brakes worked like they did on my 135i there would be no travel of the pedal without engaging the brakes. This means that in normal driving as soon as the pedal were pressed the car would start braking. With travel, it requires additional pressure, and therefore time to begin braking. It's irrelevant that OVERALL the braking distance is the same. I want the brakes to engage as soon as they are pressed, and not have any travel (especially as much as they do now) to begin the braking process.

As for the sport throttle, it's not an illusion. Certainly the car doesn't produce more power overall, but at the moment of applying the throttle in sport mode, it's as if you applied more throttle in normal mode, therefore you'll move quicker at that moment.
3magine is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      08-22-2013, 02:00 PM   #14
Dozhdbog
Major
 
Dozhdbog's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 335i Sedan
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Hollywood

Posts: 1,489
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3magine View Post
Not a very good analogy comparing to sport throttle. If the brakes worked like they did on my 135i there would be no travel of the pedal without engaging the brakes. This means that in normal driving as soon as the pedal were pressed the car would start braking. With travel, it requires additional pressure, and therefore time to begin braking. It's irrelevant that OVERALL the braking distance is the same. I want the brakes to engage as soon as they are pressed, and not have any travel (especially as much as they do now) to begin the braking process.

As for the sport throttle, it's not an illusion. Certainly the car doesn't produce more power overall, but at the moment of applying the throttle in sport mode, it's as if you applied more throttle in normal mode, therefore you'll move quicker at that moment.
The F30 has regenerative braking, which allows about 1/2" of brake pedal travel before the brakes themselves are applied, I've read. This could possibly be the reason for the dead spot everyone talks about.
__________________
2011 E90 / Premium Package / Stage 2 PPK / Performance Suspension
Dozhdbog is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      08-22-2013, 11:44 PM   #15
BDWonder
Private First Class
 
Drives: 2014 Honda Accord
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: New York State

Posts: 163
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3magine View Post
Not a very good analogy comparing to sport throttle. If the brakes worked like they did on my 135i there would be no travel of the pedal without engaging the brakes. This means that in normal driving as soon as the pedal were pressed the car would start braking. With travel, it requires additional pressure, and therefore time to begin braking. It's irrelevant that OVERALL the braking distance is the same. I want the brakes to engage as soon as they are pressed, and not have any travel (especially as much as they do now) to begin the braking process.

As for the sport throttle, it's not an illusion. Certainly the car doesn't produce more power overall, but at the moment of applying the throttle in sport mode, it's as if you applied more throttle in normal mode, therefore you'll move quicker at that moment.
You can adjust the break pedal distance, if i recall correctly. Either pumping the break when car is off or something to that extent. I was able to do it on my previous vehicle.
BDWonder is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-23-2013, 09:59 AM   #16
ybbiz34
Moderator
 
ybbiz34's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 C63 AMG Sedan
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: USA

Posts: 4,644
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3magine View Post
Not a very good analogy comparing to sport throttle. If the brakes worked like they did on my 135i there would be no travel of the pedal without engaging the brakes. This means that in normal driving as soon as the pedal were pressed the car would start braking. With travel, it requires additional pressure, and therefore time to begin braking. It's irrelevant that OVERALL the braking distance is the same. I want the brakes to engage as soon as they are pressed, and not have any travel (especially as much as they do now) to begin the braking process.

As for the sport throttle, it's not an illusion. Certainly the car doesn't produce more power overall, but at the moment of applying the throttle in sport mode, it's as if you applied more throttle in normal mode, therefore you'll move quicker at that moment.
Actually it's a great analogy. I understood it, at least.

One characteristic of high performance brakes is that the brake pedal feel is linear and progressive. Performance brakes are designed this way so you can ultimately have much more control over how much you slow down when applying your foot to the pedal. Does that make sense? You don't have much control over your braking if gently dipping into the pedal triggers maximum braking power (which is the feel you're after).

The last thing I would want on the track would be the following: I tap the brakes before entering a corner . . . I kill all of my speed because the brakes engage fully at the mere tap of the pedal.

I hope that all makes sense. It sounds like high performance brakes may not be what you ultimately want.

Note: Although the pedal feel is different with high performance brakes, the pedal feel should not be sloppy. There should be a corresponding relationship between pedal travel and bite.
__________________
'13 Iridium Silver C63 AMG Sedan (540 hp; 500 lb-ft)
ybbiz34 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-23-2013, 10:01 AM   #17
3magine
mhmmmm
 
Drives: f30 bad man
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Toronto

Posts: 558
iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ybbiz34 View Post
Actually it's a great analogy. I understood it, at least.

One characteristic of high performance brakes is that the brake pedal feel is linear and progressive. Performance brakes are designed this way so you can ultimately have much more control over how much you slow down when applying your foot to the pedal. Does that make sense? You don't have much control over your braking if gently dipping into the pedal triggers maximum braking power (which is the feel you're after).

The last thing I would want on the track would be the following: I tap the brakes before entering a corner . . . I kill all of my speed because the brakes engage fully at the mere tap of the pedal.

I hope that all makes sense. It sounds like high performance brakes may not be what you ultimately want.

Note: Although the pedal feel is different with high performance brakes, the pedal feel should not be sloppy. There should be a corresponding relationship between pedal travel and bite.
Your explanation of performance brakes is spot on. I never thought of it this way, but it makes sense. Since I don't track the car, nor ever plan to, I wish the brakes were more sticky, but, first world problems, right.
3magine is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      08-23-2013, 10:13 AM   #18
ybbiz34
Moderator
 
ybbiz34's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 C63 AMG Sedan
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: USA

Posts: 4,644
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3magine View Post
Your explanation of performance brakes is spot on. I never thought of it this way, but it makes sense. Since I don't track the car, nor ever plan to, I wish the brakes were more sticky, but, first world problems, right.
I'm glad that my explanation was helpful!

I am confident that you will get used to your new brakes over time. And after you get used to them, I'm sure you will begin to appreciate how much more control they ultimately give you.

Also, out of curiosity, did you bed the brakes in when you received your new car?
__________________
'13 Iridium Silver C63 AMG Sedan (540 hp; 500 lb-ft)
ybbiz34 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-23-2013, 04:34 PM   #19
Elk
Major
 
Drives: 2012 335i
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: *

Posts: 1,275
iTrader: (0)

You may enjoy installing brake pads with greater initial torque bite. This will provide a sensation of greater responsiveness. There are plenty of aftermarket options.
Elk is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-23-2013, 04:43 PM   #20
mikew2069
Major
 
mikew2069's Avatar
 
Drives: F30 335i MSport
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Houston

Posts: 1,314
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elk View Post
You may enjoy installing brake pads with greater initial torque bite. This will provide a sensation of greater responsiveness. There are plenty of aftermarket options.
Are there? I was looking for some low dust aftermarket options and I couldn't find any options at all. Please post!
__________________
2013 F30 335i ///M-Sport
Forgestar/Challenge/BMS JB4
Wagner/Evo Race/M-Performance
mikew2069 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-23-2013, 05:21 PM   #21
Roki_014
Major
 
Drives: 2014 335i
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: chicago

Posts: 1,231
iTrader: (0)

U should try driving non-m sport models hhaha
Roki_014 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-23-2013, 05:54 PM   #22
Steve33
Captain
 
Steve33's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 335i
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: SoCal

Posts: 708
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3magine View Post
Your explanation of performance brakes is spot on. I never thought of it this way, but it makes sense. Since I don't track the car, nor ever plan to, I wish the brakes were more sticky, but, first world problems, right.
If you want to ship them, I'll trade you the normal 2013 msport line brakes +cash
__________________
Steve33 is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:45 PM.




f30post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST