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      01-30-2012, 06:28 PM   #89
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I think the reality owners will observe will best the figures the EPA has published. In pure highway, with my '07 335i, I get 28.4 to 30.1 with the cruise set at 80. I suspect dropping down to 65 or 70 would put me quite close to 33 mpg, but I just don't like driving that slowly.

Oddly, prior to BMW applying their HPFP and turbo waste gate fixes, I was getting slightly better fuel economy, 29.7 to 31.3 mpg.
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      01-31-2012, 05:13 PM   #90
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This is an engineering achievement. Here's all you need to know. The F30 328 in auto gets nearly the same gas milage as:
"The Toyota Corolla, which has a great reputation for being frugal, is motivated by a 1.8-liter four with just 132 hp and is rated at 26 mpg city/34 highway when equipped with a four-speed automatic."

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      01-31-2012, 06:14 PM   #91
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This is an engineering achievement. Here's all you need to know.
Really? I think that OBJECTIVE people would appreciate this FACT;

BMW 328i 240HP 6-speed EPA fuel cost 2033$
Toyota Camry 268HP 6-speed EPA fuel cost 2034$

So for 1$ a year, you get 28HP or 12% more. And the 328i won't even touch the Camry V6 5-60mph in 6.1s.

Sorry to burst your bulbble, but a 2012 Toyota Camry V6 3.5 is closer to what I would call an engineering achievement. I am saying this even if I *hate* Toyota.
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      01-31-2012, 06:23 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matt_335Ci View Post
those fuel ratings are probably with Eco-Pro turned ON.
Not sure how I missed this post earlier but wanted to comment:

EPA tests cars in "default" mode. Whatever the car turns on in is what is tested. So in the F30's case that would be "Comfort". ECO Pro will yield additional fuel savings.

*This rule is also why BMW can not program cars or allow cars to start in say "sport" mode as it circumvents the default mode as per the EPA requirements, and they are not going to have each mode tested and sell certain cars in certain modes- comfort is the happy medium as far as MPG goes anyways.

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      01-31-2012, 06:54 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
Really? I think that OBJECTIVE people would appreciate this FACT;

BMW 328i 240HP 6-speed EPA fuel cost 2033$
Toyota Camry 268HP 6-speed EPA fuel cost 2034$

So for 1$ a year, you get 28HP or 12% more. And the 328i won't even touch the Camry V6 5-60mph in 6.1s.

Sorry to burst your bulbble, but a 2012 Toyota Camry V6 3.5 is closer to what I would call an engineering achievement. I am saying this even if I *hate* Toyota.
...But unless that Camry has changed, it's not exactly the same driving feel..But then we all have our various reasons for buying a 3er....

De gustibus non dispuntandum est.
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      01-31-2012, 07:15 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
Really? I think that OBJECTIVE people would appreciate this FACT;

BMW 328i 240HP 6-speed EPA fuel cost 2033$
Toyota Camry 268HP 6-speed EPA fuel cost 2034$

So for 1$ a year, you get 28HP or 12% more. And the 328i won't even touch the Camry V6 5-60mph in 6.1s.

Sorry to burst your bulbble, but a 2012 Toyota Camry V6 3.5 is closer to what I would call an engineering achievement. I am saying this even if I *hate* Toyota.
What a buzz-kill! by Toyota fanboys

kidding aside, how about you compare the cost of BMW 328i vs Camry? BMW is going to be almost twice as much. People pay for the quality, handling and a zillion other things BMW brings to the table. Try getting pu*** with a Camry I mean, your entire genetic future depends on it! :P
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      01-31-2012, 07:39 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by tony20009 View Post
In pure highway, with my '07 335i, I get 28.4 to 30.1 with the cruise set at 80. I suspect dropping down to 65 or 70 would put me quite close to 33 mpg, but I just don't like driving that slowly.
I live in DC Metro area too. I got caught a couple of weeks ago for driving at 75 / 55 in an early Saturday morning in a wide open road. Besides the $190 fine, that's 6 bad points on my record for 5 years. The officer was nice enough not to give me a reckless driving. In Virginia, driving at 80mph or 20 above speed limit is considered reckless driving. Call it crazy. But it's the reality.
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      01-31-2012, 07:50 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
Really? I think that OBJECTIVE people would appreciate this FACT;

BMW 328i 240HP 6-speed EPA fuel cost 2033$
Toyota Camry 268HP 6-speed EPA fuel cost 2034$

So for 1$ a year, you get 28HP or 12% more. And the 328i won't even touch the Camry V6 5-60mph in 6.1s.

Sorry to burst your bulbble, but a 2012 Toyota Camry V6 3.5 is closer to what I would call an engineering achievement. I am saying this even if I *hate* Toyota.
OK so you cherry picked the fuel cost instead of the fuel mileage because the Camry can run on 87 and the BMW has to run premium. The Camry gets 21/30 25 combined. How is this being OBJECTIVE?
A carry over 3.5 L port injected V6 mated to a carry over 6 speed auto that gets poor gas mileage. This is your idea of engineering achievement?

0-60 in the 328i auto is 5.9 sec, so your assertion that the Camry can't be touched is categorically incorrect. I think you meant that the Camry can't touch the 328 from 60-0 because the brakes are meant for commuting, all the weight in the front will force the nose to dive and you won't be able to steer the car.
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      01-31-2012, 07:56 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by gatoman39 View Post
OK so you cherry picked the fuel cost instead of the fuel mileage because the Camry can run on 87 and the BMW has to run premium. The Camry gets 21/30 25 combined. How is this being OBJECTIVE?
A carry over 3.5 L port injected V6 mated to a carry over 6 speed auto that gets poor gas mileage. This is your idea of engineering achievement?

0-60 in the 328i auto is 5.9 sec, so your assertion that the Camry can't be touched is categorically incorrect. I think you meant that the Camry can't touch the 328 from 60-0 because the brakes are meant for commuting, all the weight in the front will force the nose to dive and you won't be able to steer the car.
Mpg is not the target. Low fuel cost is the real target. People who brags only mpg are just saying an half truth to justify their toy.

0-60mph / 5-60mph

2012 328i 5.9 / 7.1s [under reserve, but should be similar as the same-weight Z4 N20 that has also a 0-60mph of 5.9s]
2012 Camry V6 5.8 / 6.1s

I am not surprised of the lazy 5-60mph of the Z4 N20; it reflects my experience with the N20 8-sp. I test drove.

Just stating the facts.
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      01-31-2012, 08:11 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
Mpg is not the target. Low fuel cost is the real target. People who brags only mpg are just saying an half truth to justify their toy.

0-60mph / 5-60mph

2012 328i 5.9 / 7.1s [under reserve, but should be similar as the same-weight Z4 N20 that has also a 0-60mph of 5.9s]
2012 Camry V6 5.8 / 6.1s

I am not surprised of the lazy 5-60mph of the Z4 N20; it reflects my experience with the N20 8-sp. I test drove.

Just stating the facts.
You have it backwards fuel efficiency is the target not low fuel cost. If you buy a Volt for 40k and brag that you only spent $0 on gas then you are justifying your toy to the guy who bot a Chevy Cruze and spent half for the car and $1500 a year on gas.
Please show me a link to the article where the Z4 N20 does 5-60 in 7.1, I'm interested in reading this article please.
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      01-31-2012, 08:20 PM   #99
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As you wish.
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      01-31-2012, 08:33 PM   #100
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Again you cherry pick. Why do you think is says "Test Notes" at the bottom? They left the traction control on. Plus, this is the manual version. You can't compare a manual with a auto, and you certainly can't do it here cause the Camry doesn't come in manual in the US. I could easily point to Insidelines results of
5-60: 5.6 (the difference is they turned the traction control off).

http://blogs.insideline.com/straight...sdrive28i.html
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      01-31-2012, 08:40 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gatoman39 View Post
Again you cherry pick. Why do you think is says "Test Notes" at the bottom? They left the traction control on. Plus, this is the manual version. You can't compare a manual with a auto, and you certainly can't do it here cause the Camry doesn't come in manual in the US. I could easily point to Insidelines results of
5-60: 5.6 (the difference is they turned the traction control off).

http://blogs.insideline.com/straight...sdrive28i.html
No, you can't do this, unless you go 5mph, depress clutch mash throttle and release. That's abuse and non representative.

C&D 5-60mph IS representative and there is no tricking/abuse like most publishers do to get the best 0-60mph. They just mash it from low rpm.

Real life.
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      01-31-2012, 08:49 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
No, you can't do this, unless you go 5mph, depress clutch mash throttle and release. That's abuse and non representative.

C&D 5-60mph IS representative and there is no tricking/abuse like most publishers do to get the best 0-60mph. They just mash it from low rpm.

Real life.
That's BS. They even wrote in the test notes that is exactly how they got their 0-60 time. "Disable the stability control, rev the engine to 5000 rpm and go." They decided not to do this on the 5-60 roll out, which doesn't make any sense. Either you do both w/ the t/c on, or both with it off. Either way you are missing the point. Your larger displacement Camry with worse fuel economy can only go in a straight line at nearly the same pace. What an engineering achievement like you said. OBJECTIVELY.
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      01-31-2012, 08:56 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by gatoman39 View Post
That's BS. They even wrote in the test notes that is exactly how they got their 0-60 time. "Disable the stability control, rev the engine to 5000 rpm and go." They decided not to do this on the 5-60 roll out, which doesn't make any sense. Either you do both w/ the t/c on, or both with it off. Either way you are missing the point. Your larger displacement Camry with worse fuel economy can only go in a straight line at nearly the same pace. What an engineering achievement like you said. OBJECTIVELY.

That's not bullshit and you need to keep your little attitude down.

Whether TC is on / off, it is the same protocol 5-60mph applied to both cars.

And they explicitly mention that in the case of the N20, the cause is the lag.
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      01-31-2012, 09:01 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gatoman39 View Post
Again you cherry pick. Why do you think is says "Test Notes" at the bottom? They left the traction control on. Plus, this is the manual version. You can't compare a manual with a auto, and you certainly can't do it here cause the Camry doesn't come in manual in the US. I could easily point to Insidelines results of
5-60: 5.6 (the difference is they turned the traction control off).

http://blogs.insideline.com/straight...sdrive28i.html
THANK YOU!!!! Dude has been hating on the N20 since forever. I knew that 7.2s 5-60 was some bogus bull shit. good find on those test notes. He would leave that detail out lmfao
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      01-31-2012, 09:06 PM   #105
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THANK YOU!!!! Dude has been hating on the N20 since forever. I knew that 7.2s 5-60 was some bogus bull shit. good find on those test notes. He would leave that detail out lmfao
No my figures are still dead on. This guy wrongly assumed that "0-60 with 1-ft Rollout (sec)" is the same and it is NOT.

Small displacement 4-cyl. turbo are always disadvantaged in the real life 5-60mph and an Audi A4Q Tip gets also a lazy 7.8s.
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      01-31-2012, 09:06 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
That's not bullshit and you need to keep your little attitude down.

Whether TC is on / off, it is the same protocol 5-60mph applied to both cars.

And they explicitly mention that in the case of the N20, the cause is the lag.
My attitude is fine you are comparing sticks with automatics. N20 in a stick Z4's with auto Camry's and calling the Camry an engineering achievement. That's hyperbole. You said the 5-60 times in a Camry couldn't be touched YOU ARE WRONG.
You're embellishing and cherry picking the results you want to see. If one magazine says one thing and another says something else doesn't make your magazine right. Especially when insideline standardizes the test and mentions both TC on and off times and Car and driver mixes and matches and puts a foot note at the end. Like you they are cherry picking.
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      01-31-2012, 09:10 PM   #107
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My attitude is fine you are comparing sticks with automatics. N20 in a stick Z4's with auto Camry's and calling the Camry an engineering achievement. That's hyperbole. You said the 5-60 times in a Camry couldn't be touched YOU ARE WRONG.
Nope that's true. The 328i N20, like the previous 328i N52, is unlikely to touch the Camry's 5-60mph in 6.1s.

Technically the Camry V6 posts better efficiency results than a N20 328i/Z4.

PS: I am still getting a F30 328i as my next car.
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      01-31-2012, 09:23 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
Technically the Camry V6 posts better efficiency results than a N20 328i/Z4.
Technically you can't handle the truth. OK, I get it troll. You write what you feel like cause that's what trolls do.
TOYOTA ENGINEERING ACHIEVEMENT
TOYOTA CAMRY Mileage estimates (mpg city/highway/combined)
I4 6 speed auto - 25/35/28
V6 6 speed auto - 21/30/25

2012 F30 328i 8-speed auto: 24 city / 36 highway - 28 mpg
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      01-31-2012, 09:54 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by 90degreeman View Post
What a buzz-kill! by Toyota fanboys

kidding aside, how about you compare the cost of BMW 328i vs Camry? BMW is going to be almost twice as much. People pay for the quality, handling and a zillion other things BMW brings to the table. Try getting pu*** with a Camry I mean, your entire genetic future depends on it! :P
^Exactly!

Not to mention the crappy service you get from Toyota compared to BMW (and there is a HUGE difference there. My wife owns a Toyota and, well, the only reason she is driving it, is because it was a gift from her mother but other than that, geez, never again.. I'd rather pay twice as much for her next car if I see what we get back for it).
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      01-31-2012, 10:49 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by svache View Post
^Exactly!

Not to mention the crappy service you get from Toyota compared to BMW (and there is a HUGE difference there. My wife owns a Toyota and, well, the only reason she is driving it, is because it was a gift from her mother but other than that, geez, never again.. I'd rather pay twice as much for her next car if I see what we get back for it).
The odd thing is that Lexus has the highest JD Power CSI in the biz and Toyota is consistently near the bottom. The CSI rankings are based on dealer performance during the first three years of ownership, which typically represents the majority of the vehicle warranty period.
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