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      02-14-2012, 01:21 PM   #45
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Toyota, Honda or Mazada aren't consider premium brands either but they are doing alright in Hong Kong. Given the different size and market structure, I don't think there is that great a connection or relevance between the HK and Mainland market, beyond some general shared taste in luxury brands.
It's only the luxury or premium brands that use HK as showcase for their products. Mass market brands, apart from some unique products, rely more on actual local tastes.
Toyota, Honda or Mazda aren't premium brands at all. Out of the 3, only Toyota is in a relatively healthy state in HK, even so in 2011 it only narrowly beats BMW as the top selling brand due to the Tsunami. Honda & Mazda have gone downhill during the past couple of yrs for a variety of reasons. In Honda's case it's particularly bad due to a poor product mix meaning a confused brand image.
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      02-19-2012, 09:18 PM   #46
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BMW is already well established in PRC & the hard work was done abt 10yrs ago.
American automakers didn't sell in HK cos apart from Cadillac, the rest (Chevrolet & Buick) are not exactly premium brands. Cadillac did try to sell their STS in HK but it was not a success. In actual fact the Americans have it much easier cos brands such as Buick are already well established since the 1930's. Also GM China's products are all tailor made for local consumption hence no need to go thru HK.
US brands couldn't do well and will not do well because US cars are ways too gas consuming.. fuel price is ridiculous in this small island....I have no clue what the stupid local government is thinking....
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      02-20-2012, 03:15 AM   #47
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US brands couldn't do well and will not do well because US cars are ways too gas consuming.. fuel price is ridiculous in this small island....I have no clue what the stupid local government is thinking....
Kind of OT but what is the current price per liter or gallon fuel in HK?
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      02-20-2012, 04:20 AM   #48
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Kind of OT but what is the current price per liter or gallon fuel in HK?
Starting from around USD2 per litre excluding discounts. All fuel are RON98 & comply with current EU-standards.
Diesel is tax-free but currently only one car (Audi Q7 TDI Clean Diesel) is eligible to be registered as a private vehicle.
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      02-20-2012, 04:27 AM   #49
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Starting from around USD2 per litre excluding discounts. All fuel are RON98 & comply with current EU-standards.
Diesel is tax-free but currently only one car (Audi Q7 TDI Clean Diesel) is eligible to be registered as a private vehicle.
2 bucks per liter? That's indeed expensive. I always thought HK would follow China's low fuel price a bit more. So since you guys comply with EU standards, the government also taxes like the EU does?
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      02-20-2012, 05:12 AM   #50
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2 bucks per liter? That's indeed expensive. I always thought HK would follow China's low fuel price a bit more. So since you guys comply with EU standards, the government also taxes like the EU does?
Fuel in China is not exactly low price when compared with US or Middle East. They are controlled by the government (tho it'll loosen soon).
Fuel supply in HK operates in a oligopolistic manner as the market is dominated by the big 3 (ExxonMobil, Shell & Caltex), & all suppliers (big 3 plus the 2 Chinese brands) get their fuel from the same refineries (mostly from Singapore, some from Philippines). The only difference between the brands are the additives used.
HK Government is very strict on vehicle emissions standards (e.g. cars registered after 1/6/12 must comply with either EU5 or Japanese JC08), & too strict for diesel private vehicles (i.e. they use the equivalent EU petrol standard rather than the diesel standard).
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      02-20-2012, 05:14 AM   #51
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the government also taxes like the EU does?
In terms of petrol, yes. Cars even worse. Otherwise it's a tax haven (i.e. income tax capped at 15%, no import tax on anything & no VAT) if u're not a smoker.
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      02-20-2012, 05:47 AM   #52
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Fuel in China is not exactly low price when compared with US or Middle East. They are controlled by the government (tho it'll loosen soon).
I don't know what they're currently do but when I was in Shanghai 5 years ago (and yes, that's quite a while lol), it was pretty cheap from what I can imagine. But, I also remember that it started to increase while I was there so perhaps it increased more than I expected


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Fuel supply in HK operates in a oligopolistic manner as the market is dominated by the big 3 (ExxonMobil, Shell & Caltex), & all suppliers (big 3 plus the 2 Chinese brands) get their fuel from the same refineries (mostly from Singapore, some from Philippines). The only difference between the brands are the additives used.
HK Government is very strict on vehicle emissions standards (e.g. cars registered after 1/6/12 must comply with either EU5 or Japanese JC08), & too strict for diesel private vehicles (i.e. they use the equivalent EU petrol standard rather than the diesel standard).
IC.. I guess the government there needs to be that strict, when I look how many people are located on that little piece of land. It's not fun but if they don't regulate these things and be quite strict in that situation, it might become quite a problem there for the people.


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In terms of petrol, yes. Cars even worse. Otherwise it's a tax haven (i.e. income tax capped at 15%, no import tax on anything & no VAT) if u're not a smoker.
Wow that's not bad for those things =)
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      02-20-2012, 06:26 AM   #53
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IC.. I guess the government there needs to be that strict, when I look how many people are located on that little piece of land. It's not fun but if they don't regulate these things and be quite strict in that situation, it might become quite a problem there for the people.
The standards for emissions & fuel are not the problem, the problem is the lack of competition due to market dominance as well as the outdated mindset of governmental officials (i.e. all diesel cars are bad). The only reason I can see why they have such strict standards for diesel (probably strictest in the world) is to protect their tax revenue (diesel is tax-free), & no, we don't have a deficit problem (our govt is stinking rich but also extremely stingy).
I agree controls should be put in place due to lack of road space, but the controls used are ineffective (e.g. penalty on ownership but not usage).
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      02-20-2012, 04:27 PM   #54
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but the controls used are ineffective (e.g. penalty on ownership but not usage).
I agree, that is indeed not right. I see the same thing in my old country (the Netherlands), you have to pay there regardless of what mileage you do per year. It would be more fair if those who drive more pay more than those who would have their car on the driveway for 300 days per year
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      02-20-2012, 10:16 PM   #55
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I don't know what they're currently do but when I was in Shanghai 5 years ago (and yes, that's quite a while lol), it was pretty cheap from what I can imagine. But, I also remember that it started to increase while I was there so perhaps it increased more than I expected



IC.. I guess the government there needs to be that strict, when I look how many people are located on that little piece of land. It's not fun but if they don't regulate these things and be quite strict in that situation, it might become quite a problem there for the people.



Wow that's not bad for those things =)
Dude, that's 5 years ago. You will be surprised to see lots of thing changing so fast in Shanghai even 5 months time.

Now in Shanghai, the price is almost the same as that in Hong Kong while there is government tax in Shanghai (all would say it is inclusive). I am missing driving in Shanghai. Today, HK gas price is US$2.2 per L
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      02-20-2012, 10:18 PM   #56
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Fuel in China is not exactly low price when compared with US or Middle East. They are controlled by the government (tho it'll loosen soon).
Fuel supply in HK operates in a oligopolistic manner as the market is dominated by the big 3 (ExxonMobil, Shell & Caltex), & all suppliers (big 3 plus the 2 Chinese brands) get their fuel from the same refineries (mostly from Singapore, some from Philippines). The only difference between the brands are the additives used.
HK Government is very strict on vehicle emissions standards (e.g. cars registered after 1/6/12 must comply with either EU5 or Japanese JC08), & too strict for diesel private vehicles (i.e. they use the equivalent EU petrol standard rather than the diesel standard).
I don't know how this is formed but I would rather letting Sinopec to dominate the market as let the Chinese government always gives priority/benefit to HK
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      02-20-2012, 10:41 PM   #57
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In terms of petrol, yes. Cars even worse. Otherwise it's a tax haven (i.e. income tax capped at 15%, no import tax on anything & no VAT) if u're not a smoker.
Haha, doesn't matter man. U know there is only 1.4mm ppl paying tax in HK with 7mm total population. Even within the 1.4mm tax payer, 85% are skew to the very low end in terms of tax amount for less than a 2-3k USD.....

While as a tax payer, I do want my benefit at least of a reasonable gas price~~~
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      02-20-2012, 10:44 PM   #58
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The standards for emissions & fuel are not the problem, the problem is the lack of competition due to market dominance as well as the outdated mindset of governmental officials (i.e. all diesel cars are bad). The only reason I can see why they have such strict standards for diesel (probably strictest in the world) is to protect their tax revenue (diesel is tax-free), & no, we don't have a deficit problem (our govt is stinking rich but also extremely stingy).
I agree controls should be put in place due to lack of road space, but the controls used are ineffective (e.g. penalty on ownership but not usage).
Agree with you man. I am not a typical complainer always blaming on the government. The problem is of such a developed city and based upon mainland, how the F that they are letting three foreign fuel companies raping local ppl~~~~
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      02-20-2012, 10:57 PM   #59
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It's only the luxury or premium brands that use HK as showcase for their products. Mass market brands, apart from some unique products, rely more on actual local tastes.
Toyota, Honda or Mazda aren't premium brands at all. Out of the 3, only Toyota is in a relatively healthy state in HK, even so in 2011 it only narrowly beats BMW as the top selling brand due to the Tsunami. Honda & Mazda have gone downhill during the past couple of yrs for a variety of reasons. In Honda's case it's particularly bad due to a poor product mix meaning a confused brand image.
But Toyota, Honda and Mazda has been in HK for ages so their recent problems do not account for their longevity in the HK market.
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      02-20-2012, 10:59 PM   #60
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US brands couldn't do well and will not do well because US cars are ways too gas consuming.. fuel price is ridiculous in this small island....I have no clue what the stupid local government is thinking....
That would be true in the past, but the recent newer US models are doing alright in the fuel consumption department. The fuel hog Hummer for example, was an exception rather than the rule for US vehicles.
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      02-20-2012, 11:40 PM   #61
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I don't know how this is formed but I would rather letting Sinopec to dominate the market as let the Chinese government always gives priority/benefit to HK
This is very dangerous, never put all ur eggs in one basket, never.
I don't want my car to be forced upon using low grade PRC petrol.
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      02-20-2012, 11:41 PM   #62
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The problem is of such a developed city and based upon mainland, how the F that they are letting three foreign fuel companies raping local ppl~~~~
Actually it's 3 foreign plus 2 mainland. They're all raping us (govt included).
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      02-20-2012, 11:44 PM   #63
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But Toyota, Honda and Mazda has been in HK for ages so their recent problems do not account for their longevity in the HK market.
Being long living is no longer good enough. Honda's problem in HK started since the late 90's & Mazda has gone quiet for a few yrs. Mazda will have change of distributorship in a few mths time.
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      02-20-2012, 11:45 PM   #64
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That would be true in the past, but the recent newer US models are doing alright in the fuel consumption department.

True, but perception plays the mind.
Mind u, quite a lot of the latest engine tech from US were based on original thinking from their European arms.
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      02-21-2012, 12:08 AM   #65
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how the F that they are letting three foreign fuel companies raping local ppl~~~~
You should see some of the things in their history, ever since 'white man' discovered that place, they have been raped
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      02-21-2012, 04:08 AM   #66
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This is very dangerous, never put all ur eggs in one basket, never.
I don't want my car to be forced upon using low grade PRC petrol.
Sinopec can always do better fuels. Low quality only existing in Canton province or some other lower tier cities/places. Even for the current grade, Sinopec/China petro are doing ok in big cities like Shanghai or Beijing where I bet there are far more luxury/ultra-luxury cars running on the street.

i guess I am from Taiwan thus I don't have the prejudice to the mainland products like most Hongkie do. I always go with the best price/quality ratio products. I am using Sinopec alot in HK as it works well with my car + they offer the most discount.
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