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      02-10-2012, 04:50 PM   #23
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Nice. I kind of want to see a match up between the 4 series with this engine and the revised genesis coupe with the revised 2.0T. Maybe insideline will do it under the premise of deciding whether the 4 series is worth 15k more than the genesis coupe.
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      02-10-2012, 04:56 PM   #24
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Nice! Wonder how much tuning potential
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      02-10-2012, 05:00 PM   #25
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Assuming a 15-17% drivetrain loss on a RWD car is pretty optimistic. For the xDrive (AWD), that would make more sense to me. Around 10% seems more likely in this case.

Also, Dyno Jets are only optimistic... so I'm not sure how much faith I'd put in the OP's conclusion that the car is underrated from the factory.

However, DJ or not, 226WHP/230WTQ with that torque curve from the factory bodes very well for the future potential of this engine.
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      02-10-2012, 05:06 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleeper View Post
Assuming a 15-17% drivetrain loss on a RWD car is pretty optimistic. For the xDrive (AWD), that would make more sense to me. Around 10% seems more likely in this case.
No way, 10% is way too low. 15% is usually on the low side.
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      02-10-2012, 05:11 PM   #27
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^For RWD?? I'm used to seeing less than 15%. I've always assigned about 15-20% parasitic loss from an AWD drivetrain, not two-wheel drive. I guess in the end it doesn't really matter since the people who know what they're talking about talk in numbers to the wheel and not the crank (aside from factory numbers).
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      02-10-2012, 05:20 PM   #28
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Only the beginning - Let the Boost Loose!
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      02-10-2012, 05:43 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleeper View Post
^For RWD?? I'm used to seeing less than 15%. I've always assigned about 15-20% parasitic loss from an AWD drivetrain, not two-wheel drive. I guess in the end it doesn't really matter since the people who know what they're talking about talk in numbers to the wheel and not the crank (aside from factory numbers).
remember, the auto transmission also has something to do with drivetrain loss. A 6speed + rwd should be the ideal situation for dyno numbers, while xi + auto will represent the most drivetrain loss
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      02-10-2012, 06:35 PM   #30
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This is terrific news. I extended my 2009 n54 335 lease to get into an xdrive f30 next fall. I've been seriously considering "downgrading" to the more economical 328 (cost and mpg) given the excellent reviews but keep wondering if I will regret it. This makes me more comfortable. I know my wife will be very happy with me if I keep the lease cost down too.
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      02-10-2012, 07:01 PM   #31
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Sound = candy-ass.
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      02-10-2012, 07:07 PM   #32
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F30 335 vs 328

I test drove both today, sport line and I have to say wow! Both cars are amazing and that maybe an understatment! The 335 is for sure a faster machine but the 328 does just as well. When you turn on the Sport+ mode, holy shit!! 7000rpm shift's... my goodness... I will be waiting until the xdrive and msport version but it sure is going to be hard to as I live right across the street from Sewickley BMW!!! It's nice to know that the 328 engine will have nice potential as well!
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      02-10-2012, 07:08 PM   #33
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^good to hear
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      02-10-2012, 07:48 PM   #34
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The assumptions made in this post are beyond unreasonable! How do you think the 328i obtains such impressive fuel mileage with a 15-17% loss in the powertrain? That's ridiculous. The facelifted E90 335i has the same N55 that the F30 335i has, yet the F30 335i gets 5mpg better? There are obviously improvements in parasitic losses.

The other thing that really bothers me is that people assume powertrain losses are a function of horsepower. You increase horsepower and increase losses proportionally. That is ridiculous... Losses are going to be more closely related to engine speed. If you increase the boost in the N20 and your power goes up 20% your losses are't going to go up 20% as well....

Let's not mention that drastic variations between dynos and the small varations between cars...
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      02-10-2012, 08:43 PM   #35
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This is not at all surprising, as I spent a week in a 528i with the N20 and it felt EERILY similar to the N54 in my old '07 335i......

The N20 is a GREAT daily driver engine....FANTASTIC.

Leave it to BMW make a four banger feel like a silky smooth inline-6.....sick.

Cheers,
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      02-10-2012, 09:39 PM   #36
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I think the f30 328 will be more popular than the e90...but all this praise over the 328i will die once the 335 dyno sheet pops up somewhere...plus your just going to mod the car anyways
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      02-10-2012, 11:01 PM   #37
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FWD cars can achieve maybe 12% or less in drive line losses.

I think 15% or a bit higher is pretty accurate for RWD.

AWD- forget it...you are talking 22-29%. That's why every AWD car suffers significantly in top speed and fuel economy versus similarly geared, weighted, and powered RWD cars.
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      02-10-2012, 11:11 PM   #38
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http://www.modified.com/tech/modp-10...s/viewall.html

Interesting explanation of drive line losses.
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      02-11-2012, 12:03 AM   #39
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The N20 drew even more torque in the Z4 application.
233hp / 249lb-ft torque

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      02-11-2012, 12:16 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by gatoman39 View Post
The N20 drew even more torque in the Z4 application.
I don't know if my butt dyno was having a bad day, but when I test drove the Z4 with the N20 + 8AT I was underwhelmed. Something didn't agree with me. But when I drove the F30 with 8AT yesterday, it just "felt right." And that was even without the sport auto. Maybe the powertrain is tuned differently in the F30, I really don't know.

But between the smoothness, and the phenomenal gas mileage, I can live with a bit of "candy ass" exhaust note and diesel-like idle sounds. When you're driving, which is the point of a driver's car - the F30 with the N20 is a fantastic daily driver. Sure, the 335i is certainly an upgrade, but if money is an object, the F30 328i makes much more of a case for itself than the E90 328i (in my opinion, of course - some die-hard I6 fans may certainly disagree).

I wish I could flog a demo 328i like I do my own E90 335i to make a 1:1 comparison, but with the salesperson in the right seat I have to keep myself in check...
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      02-11-2012, 12:22 AM   #41
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Nice numbers. I'll still take the N52.
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      02-11-2012, 12:48 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unintelligible View Post
I wish I could flog a demo 328i like I do my own E90 335i to make a 1:1 comparison, but with the salesperson in the right seat I have to keep myself in check...
You should try and get a solo test drive
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      02-11-2012, 12:56 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E36toF30 View Post
You should try and get a solo test drive
If we can come to an agreement on price, I'm gonna try to have them allow me to take one overnight to "seal the deal."

Looking young for your age + actually being under 30 = not exactly something that works in your favor for getting a solo test drive in a 40+K car. Even if you roll up in an E90 335i.
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      02-11-2012, 01:07 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danforz View Post
Wow! Tempting to go for 328 over 335. Can someone PLEASE do a dyno on 335 and get some more 0-60 figures in...
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