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      02-18-2012, 03:54 PM   #45
Reckamech
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I just purchased a 328 and I tested it on the dyno in my basement and I got 400 hp at the wheels.....lol .
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      02-18-2012, 03:58 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Diver
Once upon a time all small BMW's had 4 cylinder engines. They were great and this one will be great.
Well said
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      02-18-2012, 06:28 PM   #47
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      02-18-2012, 06:36 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Neph View Post
some anti 328 folks need to drop the 50K argument. if you want a pure driving experience, you don't need the fancy options. All you need is:

-Sport package
-maybe leather

this puts you at $42K. for those who really want a true driving experience, that is not a bad price to pay. you do not need some twat packages like Parking Assist etc...
I agree, and not just that, my fully loaded 328i is also way over 50K so I don't see the problem at all.
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      02-18-2012, 06:40 PM   #49
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I think that Americans don't like diesel cars just because of the noise the engine makes. If you take that, the diesel cars are much better: more torque (=more driving pleasure) and much more fuel efficiency. Europeans don't buy diesel cars because the price of the liter / gallon of diesel is cheaper than the liter / gallon of gasoline, but because the fuel efficiency in cities is much better (way better) and you still have (more) driving pleasure. The price of a diesel car is a bit higher, but in Europe gasoline cars loose a lot of value (less people want to buy them), so you will recover all the money (and more) you have invested in a diesel car. Just my European perspective.
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      02-18-2012, 06:53 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by nsra33 View Post
I think that Americans don't like diesel cars just because of the noise the engine makes. If you take that, the diesel cars are much better: more torque (=more driving pleasure) and much more fuel efficiency. Europeans don't buy diesel cars because the price of the liter / gallon of diesel is cheaper than the liter / gallon of gasoline, but because the fuel efficiency in cities is much better (way better) and you still have (more) driving pleasure. The price of a diesel car is a bit higher, but in Europe gasoline cars loose a lot of value (less people want to buy them), so you will recover all the money (and more) you have invested in a diesel car. Just my European perspective.
I only partially agree to this. I am Dutch but live in the US since a couple of years, and I would never have bought a diesel in the Netherlands because you will need to drive a lot of miles in order for it to be cheaper. Diesel fuel isn't exactly as cheap anymore as it used to be back there, plus you pay a lot of road taxes in my old country for a diesel. So while it might be more fuel efficient, when the road taxes and gas itself is adding to the cost, you will need to drive a lot more in order to be more efficient in overall.

In regards to 'more' driving pleasure, I think that's a matter of personal perspective. While there may be some difference, I always felt it was minimal

Also, as to why EU drive more diesels than their US counterparts. I have no idea really but I can imagine it never got pushed through too much, plus the fact that diesel is more expensive than regular gas over here (atm diesel is about 50 cents more in my area, not much but it could be a psychological reaction towards some people).
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      02-18-2012, 07:04 PM   #51
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This engine is so freaking close to the N55 in terms of power and torque! However, it sounds like a vacuum cleaner.
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      02-18-2012, 07:25 PM   #52
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Svache I think that in many EU countries the diesel and gasoline road tax aren't that different. In Portugal (my country) the road tax is basically the same in both types of fuel. On the other hand, the price of the litre of gasoline / diesel is very high (as in all EU countries), so more fuel efficiency can allow for significant money savings if you drive a lot in traffic (the consumption of a 335d can easily be 3/4 liters per 100 kms less than a 335i, if you are driving in the city). That's why diesels account for more than 90% of the sales in BMW Portugal. I have however to agree that the sound of a 6 cylinder (or more) gasoline engine is great (much better than the diesel). The discussion about gasoline or diesel is a thing of the past, because the price of the fuel (and pollution) will continue to rise and the electric cars are definitely the future (I'm not enthusiast about electric cars, but I think they are definitely the future).
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      02-18-2012, 08:18 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nsra33 View Post
I think that Americans don't like diesel cars just because of the noise the engine makes. If you take that, the diesel cars are much better: more torque (=more driving pleasure) and much more fuel efficiency. Europeans don't buy diesel cars because the price of the liter / gallon of diesel is cheaper than the liter / gallon of gasoline, but because the fuel efficiency in cities is much better (way better) and you still have (more) driving pleasure. The price of a diesel car is a bit higher, but in Europe gasoline cars loose a lot of value (less people want to buy them), so you will recover all the money (and more) you have invested in a diesel car. Just my European perspective.
For me there are two issues with the 335d. One, you can't get a manual transmission. Deal killer for me on a 3 series. Two, I like high revving engines.
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      02-18-2012, 09:36 PM   #54
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This is great until BMW does a software update during the 1st service and kills the performance.
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      02-19-2012, 03:31 AM   #55
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Diesel fuel isn't exactly as cheap anymore as it used to be back there, plus you pay a lot of road taxes in my old country for a diesel. So while it might be more fuel efficient, when the road taxes and gas itself is adding to the cost, you will need to drive a lot more in order to be more efficient in overall.
In a lot of countries within EU, diesel is actually more expensive per litre than petrol, but the difference is more than offset by the lower fuel consumption.
The road tax structure in a lot of EU countries is now CO2 based, so diesel cars have inherent advantage in this case due to its lower CO2 emissions.
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      02-19-2012, 03:50 AM   #56
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I don't believe the numbers on any dyno not officially related to the manufacturers' scale and conditions. However BMW underrates a bit their engines' power figures.
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      02-19-2012, 05:01 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by nsra33 View Post
Svache I think that in many EU countries the diesel and gasoline road tax aren't that different. In Portugal (my country) the road tax is basically the same in both types of fuel. On the other hand, the price of the litre of gasoline / diesel is very high (as in all EU countries), so more fuel efficiency can allow for significant money savings if you drive a lot in traffic (the consumption of a 335d can easily be 3/4 liters per 100 kms less than a 335i, if you are driving in the city). That's why diesels account for more than 90% of the sales in BMW Portugal. I have however to agree that the sound of a 6 cylinder (or more) gasoline engine is great (much better than the diesel). The discussion about gasoline or diesel is a thing of the past, because the price of the fuel (and pollution) will continue to rise and the electric cars are definitely the future (I'm not enthusiast about electric cars, but I think they are definitely the future).
Quote:
Originally Posted by clarence View Post
In a lot of countries within EU, diesel is actually more expensive per litre than petrol, but the difference is more than offset by the lower fuel consumption.
The road tax structure in a lot of EU countries is now CO2 based, so diesel cars have inherent advantage in this case due to its lower CO2 emissions.
Well, true as it may be CO2 based, this is not the situation in the Netherlands. The road taxes are based on weight and what fuel a car uses. What, however, is CO2 based, is a part of the so called 'BPM' (in Dutch: "belasting van personenauto's en motorrijwielen", this translates to "taxation of passenger cars and motorcycles"). This 'BPM' is calculated through many factors and one of them is indeed CO2.
Please also don't mix this BPM with VAT or anything, the BPM is calculated AFTER VAT and all the other taxes already have been added to the car. The base car of 31K is actually 44K including all taxes. It's basically a tax over all other taxes (they do the same with the gas lol, that's also tax over tax).

As to the road taxes, these are paid together with the yearly registration of the car in the Netherlands (seriously, they tax you till death there) and are, like I already mentioned, weight and fuel based. It also depends where exactly the car is registered in the Netherlands as several different provinces have their own tax height (they don't differ too much though).

The current yearly cost in road taxes for regular gas car in the Netherlands is 1236,00, for a diesel this is 2212,00. With both I used 2000 kg as weight (about the same what the 3 series weighs). I calculated this calculator http://www.belastingdienst.nl/rekenh...igenbelasting/ (from the Dutch tax institution). The difference is almost 1000 euro, which is a lot if you do not drive a lot. From what I've read in some Dutch articles online, it only pays to drive a diesel in my old country if you drive at least 25.000 to 30.000 kilometers a year. If you want to be cheap in road taxes, you better get an electric car, you don't have to pay any taxes with those. Also, what does make a difference is if you are a business driver and if you lease the car. Then CO2 becomes a lot more important but this is for other taxes mostly.

Also, in regards to the gas cost in the Netherlands. Like I said, the cost in the Netherlands is actually cheaper for diesel than it is for regular fuel. You can see the current prices here: http://www.unitedconsumers.com/tanke...f-prijzen.html ..it's in Dutch but that shouldn't matter I think

I know there quite a few diesel riders in the Netherlands as well but they all drive a certain amount of kilometers a year in order to be that much cheaper. If you do not make that amount of kilometers, it's better to get a car that goes on regular fuels.. at least over there it is from what I know
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      02-19-2012, 06:24 AM   #58
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I know they tax u a lot in NL, when I went on holiday last yr to BENELUX, I chose to rent the car at Brussels & cross daily across the border for sightseeing. Fuel cost are higher than BEL & everything related to motoring are more expensive across the border.
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      02-19-2012, 06:42 AM   #59
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I know they tax u a lot in NL, when I went on holiday last yr to BENELUX, I chose to rent the car at Brussels & cross daily across the border for sightseeing. Fuel cost are higher than BEL & everything related to motoring are more expensive across the border.
Haha yeah taxes can be crazy there. But, at the other hand, a lot of things are arranged really well
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      02-19-2012, 09:55 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nsra33 View Post
I think that Americans don't like diesel cars just because of the noise the engine makes. If you take that, the diesel cars are much better: more torque (=more driving pleasure) and much more fuel efficiency. Europeans don't buy diesel cars because the price of the liter / gallon of diesel is cheaper than the liter / gallon of gasoline, but because the fuel efficiency in cities is much better (way better) and you still have (more) driving pleasure. The price of a diesel car is a bit higher, but in Europe gasoline cars loose a lot of value (less people want to buy them), so you will recover all the money (and more) you have invested in a diesel car. Just my European perspective.
The bottom line is , no matter where you are from in the world , you tend to like what is familiar to you. From your moms cooking to the cars you drive. But to say that torque equals driving pleasure is a bit of a stretch.I have a couple work trucks that put out massive amounts of torque and they are far from pleasurable.Have you ever looked at it from the other way around?,, why do Europeans like diesels so much.There are lots of them on the road.Your family probably owns one and you've probably owned one at one point , if not right now. These cars all perform well , no matter what engine you choose to have under the hood. Its a matter of preference. Its like arguing which color is better then the other. That falls into the same category . Different colors sell better in different parts of the world. Thats what SHOULD make this world a great place,, but it never seems to work out that way.
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      02-19-2012, 01:19 PM   #61
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This is great until BMW does a software update during the 1st service and kills the performance.
^^^this^^^
This is so true, its scary true
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      02-19-2012, 01:33 PM   #62
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320d is also a great engine but performance-wise can't compare it to 328i. Had a chance to test it also, and was just missing more power. I guess you can compare it to 320i. Diesel vs petrol is a neverending debate and people have different preferences. I owned both and prefer the petrol engine, just don't like that 'tractor' feel.
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      02-19-2012, 06:47 PM   #63
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Quote:
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This is great until BMW does a software update during the 1st service and kills the performance.
Is this true? It would be interesting to see "before/after 1st service" dynos to confirm this trend
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      02-20-2012, 06:04 PM   #64
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Here is the question no one is asking - what dyno is this! Back in my WRX days a Mustang Dyno had my numbers accurately, but other dynos had me 10% higher sometimes more.

I'd like to see a stock 335i on the same dyno or the same care on a Mustang dyno.
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