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      03-31-2012, 12:11 PM   #1
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New C&D sports sedan compare (F30 vs A4, G25, C260, S60)

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Just got may 2012 car and driver. Compared five entry sports sedans. F30 328i won first place, but not by the same margin as the motor trend comparo. It was also waaaay priced out compared to the others. I think most of the criticism relates to the electric assist steering and the poor quality stock tires.

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2012 BMW 328i vs. 2012 Audi A4 2.0T, 2012 Infiniti G25, 2012 Mercedes-Benz C250 Sport, 2012 Volvo S60 T6 AWD

Red Bull: BMW's 3-series has usually sent the other clowns in the entry-lux class scrambling. Still true?





A new BMW 3-series sedan is finally here. That means the often lauded last-generation 3’s days are numbered, and it will soon give way to redesigned coupes, convertibles, and M versions. We’re a little sad to see the previous 3-series go, as it didn’t necessarily need to be redone. Even in its last year, the 3-series treated its competition like a bull treats a rodeo clown. Sure, you sort of admire the goofy bravery of the guy in floppy shoes, but the bull always has him on the run. That is, unless you’re in Mexico or Spain, but that’s a whole other sport.

Is the new 328i still capable of sending the clowns scrambling? Are the other cars in the segment even all that laughable anymore? We gathered an Audi A4 2.0T Quattro, an Infiniti G25 Journey, a Mercedes-Benz C250 Sport, and a Volvo S60 T6 AWD—each fitted with an automatic transmission—to find out.

If we’d assembled this group last year, only the Audi would have been equipped with a turbocharged four-cylinder. This year, three of the five cars in the test have four-bangers under their hoods. The two new four-cylinder cars are the entries from BMW and Mercedes, each of  which chopped two cylinders and added a turbocharger to create more-efficient base engines.

This is the new reality of mid-size sports sedans: Each generation of these cars gets physically larger and more technology-laden to meet perceived customer demands and to satisfy competitive zeal. But, increasingly, each is powered by a smaller, theoretically more fuel-efficient engine in order to serve other masters.

Infiniti has gotten into the downsized engine business, too. But instead of cutting cylinder count and adding a turbo, the company offers a smaller version of its familiar VQ-series V-6. So we invited the G25 to this rodeo, even if that meant it would be the cheapest car in the test.

This being a comparison of the little-engined sports sedans, we considered borrowing an S60 T5. At the time of our test, though, the new T5/all-wheel-drive powertrain combination was not available. And putting a less powerful engine into this only mildly sporty front-drive sedan would have put it at a huge disadvantage here. So we brought out the brawny 300-hp S60 T6. It lorded a distinct power advantage over the other competitors, although that didn’t mean much when we hit the back roads.

So the game has changed.  And the bull of the segment has changed along with it. Will it end up bloodied and in the butcher’s case? Or is it still an SOB you don’t want to mess with, even if it’s short a couple of Rocky Mountain oysters? ......


The new 328i looks a lot like a dehydrated 528i, especially from the rear. Inside, the design is a mix of 5-series and the previous 3. All of the electronics work as well as they did in last year’s car—no problems there. A larger exteri*or and a 1.9-inch-longer wheelbase bump up cabin space enough that the BMW’s rear seat topped our subjective comfort and objective space categories. Mass is up by 133 pounds over the last 328i, but the new 328i’s 3485-pound curb weight is only 38 pounds greater than the smaller and lightest-in-test C250. So far, so good.

Start the new 2.0-liter turbo four cold, and its clicking and pulsing direct injectors make it sound, from the outside anyway, like you’ve fired a diesel. Once warm, the engine quiets down, and excellent sound-deadening keeps the clatter from approaching the *driver’s eardrums. Its 40-decibel idle is whisper quiet. Accelerate, and the 328i jets from 0 to 60 in 5.6 seconds, tying the Audi as the quickest non-Volvo of the test. A tiny bit of four-cylinder coarseness asserts itself, but the engine revs almost as smoothly as the outgoing naturally aspirated six. With 240 horsepower and 255 pound-feet of torque, the turbo four easily surpasses that old six’s output. Power is delivered evenly from just off of idle all the way to the 7000-rpm redline. Note that the BMW is the only car here that shifted at redline: The 328i’s new eight-speed auto—similar in design to the A4’s auto—was deemed the best-applied transmission in the test. Even after hammering the 2.0-liter for 300 miles, it returned the best fuel *economy of  the bunch—21 mpg.

Chasing high mpg numbers means that many BMWs—even those with the Sport Line’s 18-inch wheels—will have all-season run-flat tires bent on saving fuel. Low-rolling-resistance rubber is designed to keep rolling, which is why the 328i stopped from 70 mph in a full-size-SUV-like 191 feet. Stops were at least consistent and free of any fade. The pedal remained firm, responsive, and progressive. Subjectively, the brakes are great, but they’re severely let down by the tires. Even wearing its run-flats, though, it exhibited a noticeable improvement in ride quality over the last 3er. BMW is getting better at tuning suspensions for the heavy and hard tires it fits to its cars.

The brand’s obsession with even weight distribution pays handling dividends. Front and rear tires seem to work equally hard. The new 3 most closely resembles the previous car in its balanced feel and nearly neutral handling. The most glaring difference between 3-series new and old is the new electric power steering’s feedback. First, it’s far lighter than before. That’s not necessarily a bad thing. That the electric power steering doesn’t offer much feedback or feel is a bad thing, though. At least it is accurate, allowing you to place the car precisely in a corner without lost motion. Our beef is that the primary communication between driver and road—the steering—is now pleading the Fifth. Please, BMW, remedy this fault.

What we’re left with is a 328i whose *personality is less distinct than that of the car it replaces, and we’d grown to love the old personality. The 335i we tested last month wore sportier tires, and its steering, while still light, had more feel than the 328i’s here. Tires more worthy of a sports sedan would go a long way to improving the 328i’s chassis performance. But maybe that tire choice is emblematic of a new approach at BMW, one that values fuel economy and rear-seat space and comfort more than it once did. This diminishes the dynamic gap between the 3-series and its ever-improving competitors, even as it results in an empirically better car. Indeed, the 328i’s virtues are considerable, even with a bloated, $50,870 sticker price. But if  you’re put off  by this more mature, less ornery bull, find yourself a previous-generation 328i. New ones are still out there.

Full review at http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...mparison-tests

Overall not as whopping of a victory as the e90.
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      03-31-2012, 12:40 PM   #2
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It wins but the gripes are the same as everyone... steering, steering and steering. They said it does not offer the feedback of the E90 and no one could really argue that.
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      03-31-2012, 12:43 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATX78703 View Post
Just got may 2012 car and driver. Compared five entry sports sedans. F30 328i won first place, but not by the same margin as the motor trend comparo. It was also waaaay priced out compared to the others. I think most of the criticism relates to the electric assist steering and the poor quality stock tires.

Overall not as whopping of a victory as the e90.
Hmm, interesting...

"Steering feedback is comparable to that of the outgoing 3-series, in spite of the noticeable reduction in effort. The new steering system’s quicker ratios compensate nicely for the loss of response that—at least theoretically—accompanies any wheelbase increase" (Sherman, 2011).

The same article doesn't go into any detail about the new run-flats, but what I've read from other sources about how the new run-flats are massively improved over the outgoing ones seems to contradict Car and Driver with this latest article.

Maybe they didn't want to seem too biased and narrowed the victory gap a little. Heck, I would bet on it since they have a subscription crowd to think about.

References

Sherman, D. (2011). 2012 BMW 3-series: First drive review. Car and Driver. Retrieved from http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...t-drive-review
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      03-31-2012, 01:08 PM   #4
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Here's the on-line article: http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...mparison-tests
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      03-31-2012, 01:10 PM   #5
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They had the Pirelli Cinturato P7 all season tires on the test car.

I don't understand why they would have a test car with all season tires.
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      03-31-2012, 01:52 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stampchez View Post
They had the Pirelli Cinturato P7 all season tires on the test car.

I don't understand why they would have a test car with all season tires.
Well I bought a set of RE970AS and they are very good.

Now about this comparo, at least the F30 won but here are a few disturbing parts.

Engine NVH for the 328i was the worst at 7/10... all others were 8 and above. Chassis performance is the worst and steering feel is the 2nd worst. Hell breaks loose with this; an Infiniti G25 is rated more fun-to-drive (and top pick).
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      03-31-2012, 01:55 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuned2ride View Post
Well I bought a set of RE970AS and they are very good.

Now about this comparo, at least the F30 won but here are a few disturbing parts.

Engine NVH for the 328i was the worst at 7/10... all others were 8 and above. Chassis performance is the worst and steering feel is the 2nd worst. Hell breaks loose with this; an Infiniti G25 is rated more fun-to-drive (and top pick).
Kind of sad, huh?
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      03-31-2012, 02:04 PM   #8
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I find it funny that the G25 did as well as it did, considering that Motortrend hated it.
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      03-31-2012, 02:37 PM   #9
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the steering issue will always be debated, overall it is NOT getting as negative reviews as the F10 did, which were unanimously horrible.

They did say that the 335i they tested had better steering input:

"The 335i we tested last month wore sportier tires, and its steering, while still light, had more feel than the 328i’s here. Tires more worthy of a sports sedan would go a long way to improving the 328i’s chassis performance. "

I do think it is a shame that u have to change ur tires on a car this expensive.
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      03-31-2012, 02:45 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATX78703 View Post
the steering issue will always be debated, overall it is NOT getting as negative reviews as the F10 did, which were unanimously horrible.

They did say that the 335i they tested had better steering input:

"The 335i we tested last month wore sportier tires, and its steering, while still light, had more feel than the 328i’s here. Tires more worthy of a sports sedan would go a long way to improving the 328i’s chassis performance. "

I do think it is a shame that u have to change ur tires on a car this expensive.
If one has experience driving an E90 with sport package and then getting in and testing out the steering feedback and feel of an F30, then I have no idea how it could not be disappointing. It doesn't matter what the mags say, the feel isn't there, its no longer a hydraulic system and could never be the same. It's sad that one of the key things that made me buy my '07 335i outside of a stellar engine was the steering feel and response and that is no longer there... I was looking forward to this new car but it's not for me. This car is a lot closer to a Lexus IS in driving qualities than it is to a classic BMW, it's sad BMW lost their roots. This is just my opinion but I am sure there are hundreds that share my sentiments.

Can't compare the EPS in an F10 because that is a large boat luxury sedan where steering response won't be nearly as much of a priority as it is in a sport sedan.
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      03-31-2012, 02:49 PM   #11
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also related to the tires:

"Low-rolling-resistance rubber is designed to keep rolling, which is why the 328i stopped from 70 mph in a full-size-SUV-like 191 feet."

this is flat out horrible, my x5 is better than this.
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      03-31-2012, 04:06 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATX78703
also related to the tires:

"Low-rolling-resistance rubber is designed to keep rolling, which is why the 328i stopped from 70 mph in a full-size-SUV-like 191 feet."

this is flat out horrible, my x5 is better than this.
It's a shame, too, that even with the low resistance rubber, the updated aerodynamics, and the 8 speed transmission, it barely got any better mpg than the other cars in the test.
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      03-31-2012, 04:27 PM   #13
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Highs: Turbo four thinks it’s a six, balanced weight means balanced handling, larger inside but no huge jump in mass.

Lows: Feel-lite steering, sounds like a diesel at idle, fuel-economy tires.

Verdict: Handling? Check. Efficient and powerful? Check. Lousy tires? Check. Steering feel? Check, please.

The new 328i looks a lot like a dehydrated 528i, especially from the rear. Inside, the design is a mix of 5-series and the previous 3. All of the electronics work as well as they did in last year’s car—no problems there. A larger exteri*or and a 1.9-inch-longer wheelbase bump up cabin space enough that the BMW’s rear seat topped our subjective comfort and objective space categories. Mass is up by 133 pounds over the last 328i, but the new 328i’s 3485-pound curb weight is only 38 pounds greater than the smaller and lightest-in-test C250. So far, so good.

Start the new 2.0-liter turbo four cold, and its clicking and pulsing direct injectors make it sound, from the outside anyway, like you’ve fired a diesel. Once warm, the engine quiets down, and excellent sound-deadening keeps the clatter from approaching the *driver’s eardrums. Its 40-decibel idle is whisper quiet. Accelerate, and the 328i jets from 0 to 60 in 5.6 seconds, tying the Audi as the quickest non-Volvo of the test. A tiny bit of four-cylinder coarseness asserts itself, but the engine revs almost as smoothly as the outgoing naturally aspirated six. With 240 horsepower and 255 pound-feet of torque, the turbo four easily surpasses that old six’s output. Power is delivered evenly from just off of idle all the way to the 7000-rpm redline. Note that the BMW is the only car here that shifted at redline: The 328i’s new eight-speed auto—similar in design to the A4’s auto—was deemed the best-applied transmission in the test. Even after hammering the 2.0-liter for 300 miles, it returned the best fuel *economy of  the bunch—21 mpg.
Chasing high mpg numbers means that many BMWs—even those with the Sport Line’s 18-inch wheels—will have all-season run-flat tires bent on saving fuel. Low-rolling-resistance rubber is designed to keep rolling, which is why the 328i stopped from 70 mph in a full-size-SUV-like 191 feet. Stops were at least consistent and free of any fade. The pedal remained firm, responsive, and progressive. Subjectively, the brakes are great, but they’re severely let down by the tires. Even wearing its run-flats, though, it exhibited a noticeable improvement in ride quality over the last 3er. BMW is getting better at tuning suspensions for the heavy and hard tires it fits to its cars.

The brand’s obsession with even weight distribution pays handling dividends. Front and rear tires seem to work equally hard. The new 3 most closely resembles the previous car in its balanced feel and nearly neutral handling. The most glaring difference between 3-series new and old is the new electric power steering’s feedback. First, it’s far lighter than before. That’s not necessarily a bad thing. That the electric power steering doesn’t offer much feedback or feel is a bad thing, though. At least it is accurate, allowing you to place the car precisely in a corner without lost motion. Our beef is that the primary communication between driver and road—the steering—is now pleading the Fifth. Please, BMW, remedy this fault.

What we’re left with is a 328i whose *personality is less distinct than that of the car it replaces, and we’d grown to love the old personality. The 335i we tested last month wore sportier tires, and its steering, while still light, had more feel than the 328i’s here. Tires more worthy of a sports sedan would go a long way to improving the 328i’s chassis performance. But maybe that tire choice is emblematic of a new approach at BMW, one that values fuel economy and rear-seat space and comfort more than it once did. This diminishes the dynamic gap between the 3-series and its ever-improving competitors, even as it results in an empirically better car. Indeed, the 328i’s virtues are considerable, even with a bloated, $50,870 sticker price. But if  you’re put off  by this more mature, less ornery bull, find yourself a previous-generation 328i. New ones are still out there.
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      03-31-2012, 06:14 PM   #14
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It's annoying that BMW is fitting those crappy all-season tires. Still, it sounds like essentially all their gripes with the car are due to the tires. They even said the 335i they drove earlier had sportier tires and (as a result, apparently) better steering feel.
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      03-31-2012, 06:35 PM   #15
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I just read the article last night. They didn't seem as enthused as most the reviews I've read. Luckily, it still took the top spot
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      03-31-2012, 07:33 PM   #16
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BMW has really made my next purchase a headache as a driving enthusiast. I keep reading so many different opinions about the F30, leaving it almost split down the middle. I just don't understand how the results are so inconsistent unlike every other 3 series article in the past.
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      03-31-2012, 07:40 PM   #17
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I have had many 3-series and other past BMW's. E34, E39, two E46, an E92 and now an E90 with an E70 X5. Test drove the new F30 several times as well as the F10. I must say, no current BMW does anything for me driving wise. What made BMW is no longer for purchase.
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      03-31-2012, 08:07 PM   #18
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I'm curious to how many people talking about steering feel or lack there of are actually pushing the car to the potential for that feel to actually make a difference. Not saying any of you dont know what your talking about as this will be my first BMW but if your not tracking your BMW 3-10 times a year what's the difference?

(I will not be tracking my f30' maybe a handful of autox, but I track an Evo to track)
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      03-31-2012, 08:39 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Shuttlegoose View Post
I'm curious to how many people talking about steering feel or lack there of are actually pushing the car to the potential for that feel to actually make a difference. Not saying any of you dont know what your talking about as this will be my first BMW but if your not tracking your BMW 3-10 times a year what's the difference?

(I will not be tracking my f30' maybe a handful of autox, but I track an Evo to track)
There is a noticeable difference between a hydraulic setup(e90,e46...) and electric assist. Personally, i dont have a problem with the new one, yea its different but i like it. My e90 was to freaking hard to steer lol

Anything above 40mph and your not turning the wheel enough to notice, also the electric builds nice pressure above 20mph, and also in sport it stiffens it up, but in comfort and at low speeds you can steer with your pinky, no way could i steer with my pinky ever in the e90
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      03-31-2012, 10:02 PM   #20
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Mass is up by 133 lb??? I thought this gen was lighter.
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      04-01-2012, 12:35 AM   #21
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Mass is up by 133 lb??? I thought this gen was lighter.
it is, but all the models they're testing have so much additional equipment
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      04-01-2012, 12:56 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r3dbimmer89 View Post
I keep reading so many different opinions about the F30, leaving it almost split down the middle.
That's why it is so important to not listen too much to the opinions but rather make your own.. Try to schedule several test drives with competitors and then see what you think of the cars yourself
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