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      04-05-2012, 01:05 PM   #45
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long wheel base cars are a big hit in china. audi has been killing it with their long wheelbase a6. no surprise bmw is joining the fray. only people over there who can afford these cars are stupid wealthy anyway so they're expecting to be driven around.
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      04-05-2012, 01:46 PM   #46
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since I have to put 2 car seats in my car and not really digging the 7 series. i would love to have a F10 Li.
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      04-05-2012, 02:26 PM   #47
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Don't mess with the kink! That is just CRAZY, I do not get it.

Li car ought to be offered world wide. Just like there is a wagon version, and x-drive version, why not the longer version. As few have mentioned, may allow people to fit kids better, etc.

As to the chrome, Chinese tastes seem to be where Americans were 50 years ago. Nothing wrong for BMW to capitalize on it. It is wrong for BMW to mess with the kink.
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      04-05-2012, 02:42 PM   #48
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The Audi A4L is the best selling car in this segment in China.

The new 3erLi is BMW firing right at Audi and its market. BMW is seen as a more prestigious brand than Audi in China and therefore the 3erLi is a very strategic challenger to the best selling A4.

I am currently in China and have been driven in the rear of the car and as a Chinese colleague showed me why China likes these cars and why the Chinese helped develop the car with BMW to meet the demands and needs of China. A car that BMW expects to increase sales growth in China where it is currently at 3rd place in BMW's global markets.

Whether a BMW is built in Germany , South Africa , USA or China.
They are all built to the exact quality standards developed in Munich at the pre-production process that is then filtered through to all global manufacturing plants.
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      04-05-2012, 04:16 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magic77
Top Gear did piece on china recently it seems over there its the rear legroom that dictates how good / luxurious car you have, so "Li " type cars are all the rage if yours doesnt have extra rear legroom its not worth. IMO its a shame its China only. OK remove the stupid extra bits of chrome but as a father of two I struggle to get rear facing car seats behind my drivers chair as I'm 6'4" so the extra rear room would help.

While I could get a 5 series I find them too large and the rear legroom not much better.
So this could be a solution. Ideally a Li Touring boy I must be getting old.
Exactly! I can't get my children in their rear facing seats in to my 3 w/o having to pull forward, and I'm 5'8". This option would be nice.

And for those who are so negative towards BMW catering to the Chinese market, you do understand that's what the Europeans were saying when BMW was catering to our market(fat American asses).
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      04-05-2012, 04:45 PM   #50
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As a Chinese, the only thing I want to comment on this post is "you are really funny". Yeah GM manufactures really nice Buicks in Shanghai, but it is just too far to be considered as a luxury in China. The LaCrosse is the most expensive Buick model made by Shanghai GM with a top price of RMB 320K which is about $50K. And let me tell you what, Chinese purchased more than 1000 Rolls last year, more than Americans did, plus, the cheapest model in China costs RMB 4 million, which is about $635K and the MSRP for the same model is $ 250K in the US. My family have a Mercedes ML 350 which is RMB 900K and same as $143K. But it can only be considered as an entry level car if you are talking about luxury cars in China since there are tons of Range Rovers ($200K-$350K+), Mercedes S ($220K-$400K+) and BMW 7s even on the street of my city (a typical suburb of Beijing). So, if you tell a Chinese that driving a Buick in China is like a Bentley in America, he will probably think that Bentley is just too cheap in America lol.
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Ya must be tough selling in a market that even 60 years later is still convinced that Buick is the pinnacle of automotive achievement. (if you dont know Buick is considered the best and most impressive car to drive in china, on level with driving a bentley in America)
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      04-05-2012, 04:52 PM   #51
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You are right, plus some "Beijing Mercedes", "FAW Toyota", "Dongfeng Nissan" and so forth. But there BMWs and Mercedes made in China are still really expensive. Beijing Mercedes just released the GLK model in China, of which the price is only 10% cheaper than imported ones.
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The Chinese letters are standard on most Chinese-made Western model cars.

The letters stand for "Brilliance BMW" indicating this car was made in northeastern China by Chinese people, instead of Germans. The cars with this tag are usually much cheaper than European imported cars.

You will also see cars in China with the letters on the back that say "Shanghai Volkswagen" or "Guangdong Honda", meaning those cars are Chinese made.
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      04-05-2012, 04:57 PM   #52
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The 3 series Li will be estimated at about 400-500k RMB depending on loadout. 5 series Li will be about 800k-900k RMB. That is why there is a 3 series Li, many people can't afford the 5 series.

There is no hierarchy with regard to cars in China. This is because pretty much everyone who drives a BMW owns their own business. You will probably not know any employees that can afford a 500k RMB car on a salary of 50-100k RMB. If you are an employee forget owning a luxury car in China.

Not even middle executives can afford this, but sometimes they get company owned cars.
One correction, 3 ranges from ¥300K-550K whereas ¥430K-800K for 5. You are pretty much right about the rest.
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      04-05-2012, 07:57 PM   #53
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What's wrong with a license plate diffuser? :
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      04-05-2012, 08:35 PM   #54
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5 series is a shorter 7 series, since when does a 3 series have double A-arms on their front suspension?
it was a joke...
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      04-05-2012, 08:36 PM   #55
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you might not know the most f10 in china is LI too... also the F01
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There are luxury taxes that prevent people from affording the regular 5 series, so the 3LI is a compromise.

Some want the space of a 5 without the premiums of a 5. There's a cachet with the 5 series that you can't get from a 3 series, but if you don't care about the cachet and still want those dimensions, you get the 3LI. The same goes for the 7 series. Want 7 series dimensions but can't afford a 7 series? Get a 5LI.


again...it was a joke.
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      04-05-2012, 09:01 PM   #56
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My post disappeared because it hurt US national pride =)

Anyhow back on topic I reckon it looks like a slightly larger 3 series.... Nice
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      04-05-2012, 10:10 PM   #57
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One correction, 3 ranges from ¥300K-550K whereas ¥430K-800K for 5. You are pretty much right about the rest.
Ah sorry, you're right about this. I believe I was comparing the Chinese made 3 prices with the European made 5 series prices. Imported cars are more expensive.

I've not really researched quotes for the Chinese made 5 series.

On another note, I would like a extended wheelbase 3 series in the USA...I am intending on driving my family out in this car for some roadtrips sometimes, and the leg room on this car is pretty small normally (sort of like economy plane seats). Of course it would be worse handling...so I'll see.

Last edited by Autumn; 04-05-2012 at 10:15 PM.
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      04-05-2012, 11:15 PM   #58
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Quote:
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Ah sorry, you're right about this. I believe I was comparing the Chinese made 3 prices with the European made 5 series prices. Imported cars are more expensive.

I've not really researched quotes for the Chinese made 5 series.

On another note, I would like a extended wheelbase 3 series in the USA...I am intending on driving my family out in this car for some roadtrips sometimes, and the leg room on this car is pretty small normally (sort of like economy plane seats). Of course it would be worse handling...so I'll see.
Both BMW and BMW China insist that the longer wheelbase will not affect handling at all but I think only no brainer will agree on this. Luckily the 530i my family has in China was built right before BMW China replaced it with 530Li for the first time in 2006. Yeah longer wheelbase will give you more room for back seat passengers, but it harms the original beauty. If you do need more room, a 5 is not gonna help a lot either, so a extended 3 might be a wise decision. Even though I really hate it that BMW compromises to introduce the weird new 3, but I have to agree that it will boost the sales. Yeah, let's see.
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      04-06-2012, 12:52 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmurphy2 View Post
Ya must be tough selling in a market that even 60 years later is still convinced that Buick is the pinnacle of automotive achievement. (if you dont know Buick is considered the best and most impressive car to drive in china, on level with driving a bentley in America)
then you might not know it is easier to find a 458 or a LP700 or even Veron in China then in US. Bentley? that's 2nd class because people know it is just a big VW. Buick is popular in China just like Toyota is in other countries.
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      04-06-2012, 06:10 AM   #60
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I find this funny to say the least, the car seems ok(sure it's nicer than most things on the road out there) but it is hardly the "class" we are used too.
What is most disturbing about the Chinese takeover of the automotive industry as jozeff so kindly pointed out is that there is absolutely no way for the Chinese to accommodate all of these new cars at the rate of their car registration.

This is an absolute waste of resources, not to mention fuel.
look at this traffic jam article...
http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2010...s-breaking-up/

just read this article from more than a year ago, pretty much talks about the same subject ...
http://tubulocity.com/?p=3207

They should just stop selling them cars (ya right) that they can't use and expedite the public transit infrastructure. Sorry but you have way to many people China how can you drive when there is no space?!!?....
Must be why a 328LI is so necessary, no desire to sit in traffic at an avg of 15mph.
Bad news has wings. So that's everything you hear and read. But the reality is, chinese are not too stupid to make a choice. If taking a subway is faster and cheaper than driving, why would people drive? The answer for that is, let me put it in this way, I need to drive 50 miles everyday to and back from the office. Both rides are on peak hours (8 AM and 7 PM) and I need to cut across the downtown of Shanghai. Guess how long does that take? 1 hour and 10 mins. You can calculate the mph, can't you?
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      04-06-2012, 07:13 AM   #61
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then you might not know it is easier to find a 458 or a LP700 or even Veron in China then in US. Bentley? that's 2nd class because people know it is just a big VW. Buick is popular in China just like Toyota is in other countries.
Communism has changed since I grew up
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      04-06-2012, 08:41 AM   #62
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Quote:
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In China average employee's salary is about 4k RMB. If you are in Beijing or Shanghai such a big city let's say 6k RMB. You wont believe how much they acutal earned until u be there. Yes, forget owning a luxury car like bmw if you dont have own business or something.
Seriously? Monthly salary of 4k or 6k RMB? That's way lower than I expected. My quote of salaries between RMB 20-40 k per month are for in-house lawyers of between 5-8 years experience (yep I've seen their pay slips).

What sort of qualifications/professional status/years of work experience are you talking about, kqian? Cos I'm thinking that BMW's target audience in China is graduate PMEBs (Professionals, Managerial, Executive & Businessmen) who've worked for a few years.
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      04-06-2012, 09:25 AM   #63
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Seriously? Monthly salary of 4k or 6k RMB? That's way lower than I expected. My quote of salaries between RMB 20-40 k per month are for in-house lawyers of between 5-8 years experience (yep I've seen their pay slips).

What sort of qualifications/professional status/years of work experience are you talking about, kqian? Cos I'm thinking that BMW's target audience in China is graduate PMEBs (Professionals, Managerial, Executive & Businessmen) who've worked for a few years.
RMB 20 - 40 k per month is a reasonable quote, if you are talking about BMW's targets in China. And the reason of have a 3 Li is because they simply can't afford both 3 and 5 together. So a 3 Li is a nice choice for them. And at the same time BMW still nicely offers a 3 i as imported version.
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      04-06-2012, 09:26 AM   #64
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Communism has changed since I grew up
Nope, it's still an evil
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      04-06-2012, 02:18 PM   #65
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More leg room for the people who need it the least!
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      04-06-2012, 02:35 PM   #66
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It's crazy how there is such a big difference in pricing of items and salaries around the world, I kid you not... in the US with incredible lease rates, a person making $40K USD a year could stretch himself and afford something like a 328i... I would say even a 335i. This is not possible anywhere else in the entire world, especially the number of young kids who buy their own 3 series.
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