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      04-19-2012, 12:38 AM   #133
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One more thing. The MMI in the Audi is not as good as some would like it to be. And the screen is too small.
Have you used the new MMI in the A8/A6 with the touchpad? It is amazing. The screen, resolution, graphics are all top shelf. They are now going to have Google Earth, even with street view.




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      04-19-2012, 07:19 AM   #134
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Yes you can do that like I said but you can also do it with the handbrake on narrower roads. The method I suggested is much safer on narrow roads on snow.
If you watch Top Gear Season 18 Episode 3 you will see that the Stig uses the handbrake method on the test track.
On narrow, snowy roads I don't screw around doing power slides at all -- safest option yet.

I don't watch Top Gear.
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      04-19-2012, 07:20 AM   #135
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Have you used the new MMI in the A8/A6 with the touchpad? It is amazing. The screen, resolution, graphics are all top shelf. They are now going to have Google Earth, even with street view.
Wow, that's pretty impressive.
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      04-19-2012, 09:41 AM   #136
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How much do you use the handbrake? I never would have thought that it would make a big difference to anyone. I think about my parking brake about as much as I think about my hazard lights button.
We MT drivers use the handbrake daily.
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      04-19-2012, 11:38 AM   #137
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Originally Posted by E90beemerfan View Post
One more thing. The MMI in the Audi is not as good as some would like it to be. And the screen is too small.
Have you used the new MMI in the A8/A6 with the touchpad? It is amazing. The screen, resolution, graphics are all top shelf. They are now going to have Google Earth, even with street view.




I agree that the LCD screens in the new A6 and A8 are top of the line, but the A4/S4 has still got a relatively small screen. I'm sure this will change for the next generation. Anyway, this is not the most important feature in a car and for those preferring Audi over BMW it's not a deal breaker
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      04-19-2012, 11:43 AM   #138
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Audi for sure knows how to design cars, but what happened to the front grill? Am I the only one not getting the thrills over the enormous grill? Maybe it's just my bad taste...
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      04-19-2012, 01:12 PM   #139
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Audi for sure knows how to design cars, but what happened to the front grill? Am I the only one not getting the thrills over the enormous grill? Maybe it's just my bad taste...
They supposedly copied the grill from an Auto Union race car.

Unfortunately, nobody told them that we don't drive Auto Union race cars, so it looks really out-of-place on a 2012 car design. Excellent example of design-by-committee.
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      04-19-2012, 06:28 PM   #140
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They supposedly copied the grill from an Auto Union race car.

Unfortunately, nobody told them that we don't drive Auto Union race cars, so it looks really out-of-place on a 2012 car design. Excellent example of design-by-committee.
Actually, I think this Auto Union race car grille is what set off Audi's record setting pace for sales.
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      04-19-2012, 07:58 PM   #141
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I actually love Audi. I looked at one before purchasing my BMW. Ultimately, my heart belongs to BMW, but Audi deserves credit where it's due. It's a beautiful, well performing car. I think we should think of Audi and BMW as brothers with different strengths than enemies battling each other. Sorry, got a little "world peace" on you guys haha
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      04-19-2012, 09:09 PM   #142
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They supposedly copied the grill from an Auto Union race car.

Unfortunately, nobody told them that we don't drive Auto Union race cars, so it looks really out-of-place on a 2012 car design. Excellent example of design-by-committee.
I don't think it looks out of place. I think it looks great.
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      04-20-2012, 08:14 AM   #143
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The s4 needs to be compared to an m3 f30 body style when that gets released
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      04-20-2012, 08:43 AM   #144
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The s4 needs to be compared to an m3 f30 body style when that gets released
Why? They aren't even remotely close in price or performance. The F80 will compete with the RS4, the S4 aligns with the 335i and the A4 aligns with the 328i. Should we compare a Z4 3.5is to the R8 GT?
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      04-20-2012, 09:23 AM   #145
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Why? They aren't even remotely close in price or performance. The F80 will compete with the RS4, the S4 aligns with the 335i and the A4 aligns with the 328i. Should we compare a Z4 3.5is to the R8 GT?
Other than the 328 vs. the A4, it is really hard to compare any of the other models.

The S4 is more sportscar oriented than the 335.
The M3 is more expensive and sportscar oriented (IMO) than the S4.

The S4 is an excellent car and if I liked the looks of it (and wanted to spend that much), I would maybe buy it over the 335. For me, the exterior just looks way too much like the Jetta and inside the ugly steering wheel and blank spot in the dash (where the radio would normally be) just annoy me. I believe that the new A4/S4 remedy the latter two issues.
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      04-20-2012, 10:07 AM   #146
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Audi for sure knows how to design cars, but what happened to the front grill? Am I the only one not getting the thrills over the enormous grill? Maybe it's just my bad taste...
Audi will get better at designing cars. They have the resources and access to Italian designers from Lamborghini and the recently acquired Ducati brand.
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      04-20-2012, 10:22 AM   #147
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The S4 is more sportscar oriented than the 335.
Why? It weighs more in the first place.
OK it has a few HP more.Fair enough.
But its base model is FWD design, the quattro is nice in wet/snowy/icey conditions and that's about it imo.
A weight balance of 56/44 vs 52/48(335i) doesn't make much sense either.

And just because it looks maybe more sporty(because of more spoilers /skirts and stuff) doesn't make the car more sportscar oriented imo.
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      04-20-2012, 10:29 AM   #148
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Why? It weighs more in the first place.
OK it has a few HP more.Fair enough.
But its base model is FWD design, the quattro is nice in wet/snowy/icey conditions and that's about it imo.
What the base model of the platform is has nothing to do with how good/bad the actual model (S4 in this case) is. Guess what, RS models by that logic are also based on the a base model, does that make them junk? Should we judge the 335i based on a say a diesel or petrol 316i because that is a 'base model' 3-series?

What makes IMO the S4 more 'sporty' is the tq vectoring/active diff option. Wish BMW offered there on non-M cars.
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      04-20-2012, 10:35 AM   #149
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Why? It weighs more in the first place.
OK it has a few HP more.Fair enough.
But its base model is FWD design, the quattro is nice in wet/snowy/icey conditions and that's about it imo.
A weight balance of 56/44 vs 52/48(335i) doesn't make much sense either.

And just because it looks maybe more sporty(because of more spoilers /skirts and stuff) doesn't make the car more sportscar oriented imo.
I say the S4 is more sportscar oriented because besides the bigger engine than the A4, it has a sports suspension, upgraded rear differential, upgraded dual clutch automatic, summer only tires, aggressive sports seating, upgraded brakes, etc. It is clearly not a typical Audi designed for all weather conditions. It is designed to be a sports car version of the A4 giving up luxury for performance. The 335 can be altered thru options but it isn't the same IMO.
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      04-20-2012, 10:58 AM   #150
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Sounds Faster F30 vs Is Faster S4

Frankly, the article made zero sense.

If we all took a poll as to which we prefer....a car that sounds faster...or a car that is faster....I think 100% of us would check the latter box.

The writer of this article inexplicably checked the former box.

I drove a 2007 E90 335i N54 with 162s for 5 years. I LOVED that car. My prior ride was an E46 330i with sports package. I LOVED that car too. In March I sold my 335i to my cousin who found himself in need of wheels when an idiot side swiped him (he was okay...his Maxima was not).

I now drive a 2012 S4 premium +, Nav+, Comfort Access, Sport Diff, DSG, 19 sport conti's, B&O sound system, quattro, phantom black mettalic, Audi car free service at 5, 15, 25, 35, 45K miles out the door at $51, 350K. Sticker $56,200.

So for all of you in the US the first "inaccuracy" of the article is that the S4 is 10K more than the F30 335i. It is not. I shopped them both very hard. You can get an S4 for the price of a similarly equipped F30 335i...if you know how to negotiate.

So for same price range you can get more horses, better acceleration, and all wheel drive (which I know some do not preffer). If exclusivity is important...the S4 is far less common on the road. For that reason I am getting all sorts of compliments like "Whoa what is that...beauty of a car". I think its because the S4 is a rare sight.

So the real question after 1500 miles behind the wheel of an S4 is how does it compare to the F30 335i (test drove 3times), the E90 335i with N54 (drove 5 years), the E46 330I (drove 5 years)? Forget bells and whistles....including engine sound.....how does the acceleration and handling compare....especially for us street drivers?

Simply put the S4 supercharged V6 mated to the DSG out performs all comers in just about every category....especially off the line acceleration. The S4 mated to the DSG pulls hard and the power torgue comes on early...when you need it....just keeps going to triple digits.

Especially the launch control feature.....one word WOW!!

As I sad I loved the N54...but the the S4 supercharged V6 is just a bigger beast....the DSG....icing on the cake.

Frankly, after driving an E90 335i with the N54 twins...I tried to fall in love with the F30 335i N55 but could not.....going from N54 to N55 you feel that lag. Granted its a fraction....but that lag is there and it shows up right at the wrong time!!

So here is how I rank them:

>S4, E90 335i, F30 335i, e46 330i (but build quality on e46 330i is EXCEPTIONAL).

So before you buy that F30 335i....test drive an S4....do some hard negotiation on BOTH cars...then follow your heart.

But don't believe the article about the $10K.

My wallet is proof it aint so.
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      04-20-2012, 11:02 AM   #151
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I say the S4 is more sportscar oriented because besides the bigger engine than the A4, it has a sports suspension, upgraded rear differential, upgraded dual clutch automatic, summer only tires, aggressive sports seating, upgraded brakes, etc. It is clearly not a typical Audi designed for all weather conditions. It is designed to be a sports car version of the A4 giving up luxury for performance. The 335 can be altered thru options but it isn't the same IMO.
I think of the S4 like a Sport Line 335i, and both the 328i and the A4 are available with similar options. The rear diff is an option on the S4 too and the 335i now offers upgraded brakes over the 328i. So aside from not being able to get a 3.0T A4 (in the US) without the sport seats and available rear diff, they really are fairly interchangeable.

I actually think that Audi has a big opportunity with the B9 chassis to surpass BMW on the sportiness and handling front in this class. The F30 was a small step forward from the E90 and leaves a large opening for Audi to get this next round right. Of course they'll probably make it bigger than the current B8, which will totally remove it from my consideration.
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      04-20-2012, 11:40 AM   #152
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Casey 5, you made a lot of good points. Most of us here who owns BMW and Audi know there are plus and minus to both cars. I think Audi's short fall is that they have only recently started making cars that are competitive to BMW, whereas BMW have been doing it for much longer and have a much stronger following. If one do their homework and really cross shop the two brands, they will realized that BMW is no longer the dominant brand that it once was when it comes to the sport luxury sedan segment.
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      04-20-2012, 11:41 AM   #153
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I really have to question whether many people commenting on here have driven the new S4..and if they have, if they drove it hard. I drove the S4 back to back with the F30 335. That torque vectoring rear diff is awesome. Pushed hard around corners the S4 holds the road with more confidence than the 335, yet you can also get the rear end to slide out a bit which gives it a pretty respectable "fun-to-drive" factor. I would not say it is more fun than the 335, but it does not feel like the old S4.

Acceleration in the S4 feels a little faster than the 335, but not much, brakes felt similar under very hard braking, and the transmissions where roughly equivalent (8spd auto vs. DSG) I'm a manual gearbox fan, I didn't get to drive the S4 in manual

I preferred the exhaust note on the 335, as well as the all important steering feel. But to be honest, both of these cars have that slightly artificial feel you get from electro-mechanical steering. I'll take my E92s hyraulic assisted steering over both.

Looks are subjective, so I won't bother commenting other than to say both cars look good and both are comfortable when in the driver seat.

As for pricing, when I built the cars online...with the options I'd want, the 335 was around $53k and the S4 around $56k...those were MSRPs, either way, even if you could get both for closer to invoice you're only looking at $3k difference. Not a lot. Maybe BMWs saving grace is for lease fans, where BMW clearly has more attractive pricing.

Bottom line. These cars are very comparable in price, performance, and features. I'm a BMW fan and would likely lean towards the 335 just due to a slightly better driving feel, and slightly better looks...but simply put, the S4 outperforms the 335.
To say that the S4 is $10k more than the 335 is just not truly representative of what you'll find when you go shopping for these cars, and to assert that the S4 is just a soulless fwd fancied up A4/Jetta sounds like blind BMW elitism.
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      04-20-2012, 12:20 PM   #154
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and to assert that the S4 is just a soulless fwd fancied up A4/Jetta sounds like blind BMW elitism.
To be fair, this quote did come from someone driving a Ford Focus with a Jag badge on it, so it was kind of funny for that alone.
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