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      04-23-2012, 07:58 PM   #1
sonicbimmer19
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BMW vs. Audi

Hi guys,

All my life, I thought when it comes to performance, it was BMW or nothing. But lately I've heard people say Audi has better racing heritage because they won more 24 Hours of Le Mans (10 wins compared to BMW's 1 win) not to mention BMW does not have an answer to Audi R8. (doesn't matter if BMW CAN make a TRUE super car or not, the fact is we don't have one).

I know you can't really compare BMW's and Benz's because BMW focuses more on performance and Benz focuses more on comfortable ride and luxury.

As far as brand is concerned, I know Audi can't compete with BMW. But performance only, are Audi's really better cars than BMW's?
Maybe when you compare 3ers to A4, 5ers to A6, 7ers to A8, BMW are better but Audi has more higher end cars that BMW just can't compete with?

Any unbiased opinion on this subject would be greatly appreciated.
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      04-23-2012, 08:01 PM   #2
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I think Audi grows closer to overtaking BMW everyday unfortunately...
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      04-23-2012, 08:03 PM   #3
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I will never buy an Audi due to that.
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      04-23-2012, 08:13 PM   #4
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I like Audis. I like their style, their performance capabilities, their "personality"... much nicer interiors than most BMWs.

But I don't think I'd buy a current Audi. Well, I don't think I'd buy many of the current Audis. They have worse carbon buildup problems than BMWs tend to have. They also don't feel as nice to drive as BMWs do.

Remember, BMW's mission lately hasn't been "the ultimate driving machine" but the "ultimate all-around machine" and in this case I think it succeeds. Take the M3. You can take it to the race track just as comfortably as to the grocery store. Same as the 1 and 3 series in their more performance oriented variants. You can beat the hell out of the car, and it still wants more. Sure, a Porsche can easily beat out a 1M or M3 on the race track (not even mentioning a regular 1 or 3 series), but there's no back seat and you feel like you're ALWAYS on the race track, even when you're on the street. A BMW can take daily abuse, provide plenty of performance capabilities, have enough cargo room, allow for people to use the back seat, be commuted with every day, be taken to a track on the weekends, and much more.. and it performs all these tasks admirably. Does the 302 Boss Mustang equal the M3 on the track for less money... yes. But are you equally comfortable commuting with it or just cruising around day to day? No way! I think that's what BMW's mission has been lately.

Audi on the other hand... The 3 series outclasses the A4 in most ways. The 5 series outclasses the A6 in most ways. The 7 series I don't like much, but in that price range, Mercedes' S-Class spanks the offering from both BMW and Audi. Z4 vs TT vs SL(K) I don't really have much experience with, but BMW's current lineup of SUV's is at least on par with Audi's. As for the sporting variants, it's very hard to say because the Audi lineup is structured VERY differently than BMW's. A 335 will spank an A4, which (in stock form) will be spanked by an S4, which will then be spanked by an M3, which... actually it tends to beat the RS5 in comparison tests.. (http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...n/viewall.html)

It's very hard to say. I always thought of BMW's as more sporting focused while MB is more luxury focused and Audi is smack in the middle. However, BMW has been moving towards pleasing more people lately as they take up a greater market share than ever before. They are becoming the "all around machine" which isn't terrible.. as long as they keep them just as fun to drive. Audis also tend to be a little more expensive. My dad is shopping for a hard top convertible. The A5 is a soft top, and Audi doesn't really offer anything in his price range. He wants a 328i vert, because the VW Eos and Volvo C70 aren't really refined enough. Mercedes' SLK line is too expensive and only seats 2 and their other verts are way up in price. BMW is kind of becoming a "people's sports car" just like the original Mustang was, except I guess one price notch up. Can't afford a Porsche (or can, but you need a car that can actually function as a car with a trunk and back seat?), or want a sporty car but can't afford a second one other than your daily driver?... get a BMW. That's what the 3 series in particular excels at.

Also, Audi is huge. BMW isn't. Audi is owned by Volkswagen and shares many parts with them, but is also owned by the same company as Lamborghini and Porsche and benefits from that. BMW has Mini and Rolls Royce. There is no part sharing, but there also isn't nearly as big of a backing to them.
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      04-23-2012, 08:14 PM   #5
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Both are great car makers. BMW is more innovative though & mostly privately owned. Audi's are better value for money, but BMW's have a stronger DNA for past & future performance levels IMO.
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      04-23-2012, 08:19 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonicbimmer19 View Post
But lately I've heard people say Audi has better racing heritage because they won more 24 Hours of Le Mans (10 wins compared to BMW's 1 win) not to mention BMW does not have an answer to Audi R8. (doesn't matter if BMW CAN make a TRUE super car or not, the fact is we don't have one).
But BMW has won boatloads of touring car championships: WTCC, BTCC, ALMS, etc., and Audi has won very few, if any.

And those cars are much closer to street cars than the Audis that have won Le Mans... Tell those people to chew on that.


Quote:
As far as brand is concerned, I know Audi can't compete with BMW. But performance only, are Audi's really better cars than BMW's?
No.

Look at all the magazine reviews around the world... BMWs set the standard. They're the benchmark.

Quote:
Maybe when you compare 3ers to A4, 5ers to A6, 7ers to A8, BMW are better but Audi has more higher end cars that BMW just can't compete with?
More higher end cars? Audi just has the R8, huh?
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      04-23-2012, 08:19 PM   #7
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Performance wise Audi has a great line up not to say BMW does with it's M3 and 1m and the new m5 has 520+hp for a v8 it's stupid fast they are competitors and they win and lose in different spots.... BMW does have a more luxury name and higher class name well atleast to me and Audi is more of a common to see sells well
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      04-23-2012, 08:33 PM   #8
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As for the R8 don't forget that it's more of an Lambo then audi that's why they have it.
Maybe if BMW owned an exotic company they would have something in the same range.
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      04-23-2012, 08:35 PM   #9
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Great inputs guys.
I feel like BMW really needs to come up with a true super car, if they really have the technology to do it. But I guess however you look at it, you come back to "BMW are simply the best daily cars"
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      04-23-2012, 08:37 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Creps View Post
As for the R8 don't forget that it's more of an Lambo then audi that's why they have it.
Maybe if BMW owned an exotic company they would have something in the same range.
Yeah, the R8 is basically a Lambo in Audi clothes. And it has that HORRIBLE fake auto tranny. I'd rather have the 6 speed ZF gearbox or the BMW DCT. That honestly doesn't stop it from being on my list of "dream cars" though. I don't usually care for supercars, my dream car list is made up of various M3's, an RS5, GTR and other "attainable" cars. But the R8 for me is pretty awesome. Still, love BMW more than Audi as a whole.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sonicbimmer19 View Post
Great inputs guys.
I feel like BMW really needs to come up with a true super car, if they really have the technology to do it. But I guess however you look at it, you come back to "BMW are simply the best daily cars"
Well, the i8 is coming out soon. Not quite as powerful as the R8, but it is within supercar pricing and performance specs. Especially for a hybrid!
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      04-23-2012, 08:43 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonicbimmer19 View Post
But I guess however you look at it, you come back to "BMW are simply the best daily cars"
+1...love BMWs for DD. That said, I wouldn't mind an Audi A3 S-line Quattro for a Winter DD, but I still prefer Porsche 911 Turbo over the Audi R8.
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      04-23-2012, 09:00 PM   #12
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I'd be happy to go grocery shopping in the Audi R18 TDI. Just hand me the keys and your list.
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      04-23-2012, 09:08 PM   #13
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@ 1speedbike: the R8 comes in 6 spd as well as the R-Tronic.

I think Audi's look great, especially as you go higher end - RS4 / A7 / R8 - but they tend to be very mediocre about their low / mid range vehicles: A4 / A5.

I also agree with those who have said BMW is more innovative. I don't believe any CF has been used in Audi vehicles outside of the "blades" used on the R8, while BMW is making much headway with their partner (Callaway?).

Definitely agree on championship racing; Audi only participates in a few. ///M power is everywhere. ALMS is AWESOME to watch as they are the same cars we can drive, albeit with a few "slight" mods.
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      04-23-2012, 09:25 PM   #14
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I always hear this argument that BMW needs an answer to the R8 or the SLS and I always think, "Why?" So some overgrown teenager can get excited by some car pron? Seriously, these are cars most (all?) of us will never drive, much less own, so who cares? If you think you're getting R8 DNA in your A4, fine, but understand they have about as much in common as Saabs and fighter jets (remember those commercials?)

On the other hand, BMW is actually doing something very innovative with the i8.
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      04-23-2012, 10:15 PM   #15
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ALMS is AWESOME to watch as they are the same cars we can drive, albeit with a few "slight" mods.
BMW Team RLL.
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      04-23-2012, 10:19 PM   #16
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My coworker has a pretty new S4, and it's fairly awesome. Pulls hard, and the seat shape and material really keep you planted. The electronics are fairly "gadgety" -- knobs and dials EVERYWHERE.

Is quattro worth the weight? I dunno, probably not here in California. Still a really fun car though, and the interior is top notch.
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      04-23-2012, 10:23 PM   #17
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Oh yeah, on the racing side of the argument, BMW returning to DTM is pure awesomeness, too
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      04-23-2012, 10:31 PM   #18
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as a previous audi owner, coming to the BMW world i will never return!

the way the BMW drives compared to my audi is night and day..
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      04-23-2012, 10:58 PM   #19
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      04-24-2012, 01:37 AM   #20
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I think audis look better, haven't had my 135 for as long as my S4 so I can't comment really on more than looks.
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      04-24-2012, 08:22 AM   #21
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BMW vs. Audi vs. Benz vs. Lexus vs. Infiniti is really a pointless argument at the end of the day.

You're buying a specific car, not the entire car line. Comparing the A4 vs. the 3-Series or the A6 vs. the 5-series is far more relevant, no? You can look at overall brand reliability, warranty, service, etc. but if Audi has a fantastic $500k supercar and BMW doesn't is irrelevant to pretty much everyone. It looks good on the cover of Car & Driver but that's about it. It has zero relevance to anything you're actually ever going to buy.

Car companies build super-expensive cars not to turn a profit but exactly because people see these cars and make assumptions about the brand overall (racing heritage, engineering prowess, etc.) and assume that influences the cars they can actually afford. If this marketing strategy didn't work they wouldn't do it.

You're way better off worrying about what specific car is best for you rather than make assumptions about a 328 or an A4 based on a $180k+ car with zero similarities except a nameplate.

For me it came down to reliability. Anecdotally speaking everyone I know who's owned an Audi, including recent ones has had issues with it. They drive nice and feel nice but in my mind they are among the least reliable brands out there. BMW's aren't exactly Hondas or Toyotas but in my experience they are more reliable than Audis.

Personally I would rather see both companies (along with Mercedes, Land rover & others) invest more in making more reliably cars than irrelevant cars that cost as much as a house and are pretty much marketing stunts. I would be much more impressed if BMW would spend engineering dollars on making my 1-series hold up more like a Lexus while still driving like a BMW. Now THAT would impress me.
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      04-24-2012, 08:37 AM   #22
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I've owned an A4 and GTI, both had problems costing me $3000+. I've had a 128i and 328i both have had NO problems. Yeah, I'll stick to BMW.
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