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      09-12-2012, 07:57 PM   #353
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AutobahnDriver View Post
If you read the ZF brochure BMW's problem becomes clear:
Ideal for vehicle manufacturers: The steering column and servo unit are delivered to the production line ready-to-install. (http://www.zf-lenksysteme.com/upload...ctric_E_09.pdf)

It's most unlikely your garage is able to repair that highly integrated unit. Even BMW most likely can't and certainly will not do it.

The only feasible way is to replace the whole part, which means disassembling most of the front gear. Presupposing ZF mastered the "variance" in their production meanwhile. And that takes a mechanic who knows, what he's doing.

Nowadays modern cars are mostly patchwork of parts from different suppliers. The more integrated the supplied parts become, the less influence the car manufacturer has in case of belated technical faults.

Similar to the byer of the car, the manufacturer itself then has to (re-)submit a warranty claim and wait for a fix.

According to BMW my F30 is repaired on on his way back. The head of the dealer's garage told me, that along with the car he will get a detailed report, what parts have been replaced. He is going to show it to me.

I'm curious what they did and of course if they really fixed the problem without generating new ones.
Keep us posted!
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      09-13-2012, 10:30 AM   #354
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I've an update on my car, but first I'll tell the dilema.

Upon test driving my 328i I noticed a bad vibration in the steering wheel. The salesman and I both thought it was the wheels being out of balance, and once back and after negotiating I was told that service would take care of the steering wheel vibration while I signed paperwork. They forgot, and I didn't realize it till I was half way home. I came in the next day to get the wheels balanced. I thought the tires just needed to get the hard spots out and the minor vibration was due to hard spots. After a week I brought it back after searching online and finding this forum.

Many arguments, phone calls, BBB complaints, an FTC complaint, a lawyer consultation, and email to the general manager finally got me a meeting with BMW's regional director for the Carolinas. We spoke and went on a test drive, he acknowledges the steering wheel vibration and told me I was the second person he has met with. He told me how it was minor and he promised BWM was working on and would fix it. I told him I believe that, but upon purchasing the car I was told the car would be fixed and I wouldnt have to worry about it, and that I did not need the vehicle. He asked me to give him a week and I would receive a call about my options.

That call came today. I was told by a BMW rep how they were updated on my situation by the regional director. That he said there was no problem with the car, and that I had an issue with the normal vehicle operation... wow was I mad!!! But they also mentioned that I had been reading about how sport models dont report the vibration as much and asked me to test drive one. If I was happy with that they would look into assistance to try to put me in a new vehicle. So tomorrow I have an appointment to test drive a couple new cars.


I'll keep you all updated, and apologize for the bad grammar.
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      09-13-2012, 10:56 AM   #355
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I finally heard back from BMW NA and was told that my steering wheel vibration was normal vehicle operation for this model and that I had no options.

Nice. Not sure what to do now. I have a 3 year/45k lease.
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      09-13-2012, 11:05 AM   #356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f30Indy View Post
I finally heard back from BMW NA and was told that my steering wheel vibration was normal vehicle operation for this model and that I had no options.

Nice. Not sure what to do now. I have a 3 year/45k lease.
that's bull shit
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      09-13-2012, 11:28 AM   #357
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmoothSteeringHopeful View Post
I've an update on my car, but first I'll tell the dilema.

Upon test driving my 328i I noticed a bad vibration in the steering wheel. The salesman and I both thought it was the wheels being out of balance, and once back and after negotiating I was told that service would take care of the steering wheel vibration while I signed paperwork. They forgot, and I didn't realize it till I was half way home. I came in the next day to get the wheels balanced. I thought the tires just needed to get the hard spots out and the minor vibration was due to hard spots. After a week I brought it back after searching online and finding this forum.

Many arguments, phone calls, BBB complaints, an FTC complaint, a lawyer consultation, and email to the general manager finally got me a meeting with BMW's regional director for the Carolinas. We spoke and went on a test drive, he acknowledges the steering wheel vibration and told me I was the second person he has met with. He told me how it was minor and he promised BWM was working on and would fix it. I told him I believe that, but upon purchasing the car I was told the car would be fixed and I wouldnt have to worry about it, and that I did not need the vehicle. He asked me to give him a week and I would receive a call about my options.

That call came today. I was told by a BMW rep how they were updated on my situation by the regional director. That he said there was no problem with the car, and that I had an issue with the normal vehicle operation... wow was I mad!!! But they also mentioned that I had been reading about how sport models dont report the vibration as much and asked me to test drive one. If I was happy with that they would look into assistance to try to put me in a new vehicle. So tomorrow I have an appointment to test drive a couple new cars.


I'll keep you all updated, and apologize for the bad grammar.
Mine's a sport and has the vibration. So far, I think the vibration has been noted in every single line including the base.
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      09-13-2012, 12:42 PM   #358
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"You're holding it wrong."

I can just see the 2014 borchure - "Now introducing Dynamic Pavement Attention. BMW has introduced this safety innovation to vibrate the steering wheel and increase driver awareness of the motoring experience."

Sigh. Well, of course it's "normal" if every F30 does it to some extent. Just like HPFP failures would be "normal" if every vehicle experienced it. Doesn't mean it shouldn't be corrected.
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      09-13-2012, 04:06 PM   #359
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmoothSteeringHopeful View Post
...But they also mentioned that I had been reading about how sport models dont report the vibration as much and asked me to test drive one...
I wonder if you (or they) meant models with "variable sport steering" (VSS), rather than "sport models"? VSS would make more sense because of the different steering rack mechanism, whereas the different lines (sport, luxury, modern, M Sport) are largely (almost entirely) cosmetic. I believe VSS is an option on all of the lines (coupled with adaptive suspension in MY 2013).
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      09-14-2012, 03:45 AM   #360
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmoothSteeringHopeful View Post
[...]
He asked me to give him a week and I would receive a call about my options.

That call came today. I was told by a BMW rep how they were updated on my situation by the regional director. That he said there was no problem with the car, and that I had an issue with the normal vehicle operation... wow was I mad!!!
[...]
Really unfortunate development, but not surprising to me.

As long as you approached BMW with or along with written conversion, things evolved. The moment they got you to switch to oral they successfully stalled.

Maybe it's time to switch back to writing and to get a written expertise / expert evidence on the defects/deficiencies, that is qualified for legal proceedings. Ask your local AAA representative, he sure will give you some addresses of engineers entitled to compile such a document.
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      09-14-2012, 09:23 AM   #361
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My guess is they have no fix and dont want to keep replacing cars when the replacement car will have the same issue. total bull shit.
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      09-14-2012, 09:47 AM   #362
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Since this thread is 17 pages long, maybe I missed it, but has there been any determination as to whether or not the RFT's have anything to do with it? Or has it been narrowed down to being a steering rack issue?
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Last edited by diesel86; 09-14-2012 at 11:02 AM.
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      09-14-2012, 10:07 AM   #363
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diesel86 View Post
Since this thread is 17 pages long, maybe I missed it, but has their been any determination as to whether or not the RFT's have anything to do with it? Or has it been narrowed down to being a steering rack issue?
I want to know if non-runflats and not 20 inch wheels have the same vibration issue. I am thinking about swapping out my runflats prior to taking delivery.
Thanks,
Joel
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      09-14-2012, 10:18 AM   #364
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99% sure it's the zf steering module. I have seen similar issue in x3's
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      09-14-2012, 10:43 AM   #365
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I felt a slight vibration at 50 mph yesterday. The pavement wasn`t smooth so I will try on a smooth pavement again. But I guess I will hav the same problem. Looking at the comments I guess taking it to dealer wouldn`t help.
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      09-14-2012, 11:10 AM   #366
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayir View Post
I felt a slight vibration at 50 mph yesterday. The pavement wasn`t smooth so I will try on a smooth pavement again. But I guess I will hav the same problem. Looking at the comments I guess taking it to dealer wouldn`t help.
You will probably get the same variation of answers all of us have. That being said, at least for me, it's only a minor (very minor) annoyance. Nothing like the HPFP on earlier BMW's or the oil consumption issue my G35 coupe had a few years ago. Nissan was going as far as replacing engines on a semi-regular basis.

I'm not as intimately familiar with the components of other Non-F30 models, but do other BMW's use the ZF electric steering? 5 or 7 series not have this same issue?
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      09-14-2012, 03:06 PM   #367
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If the issue does turn out to be the ZF electric steering, how would affected cars be repaired? Is the steering module something that could be swapped out at a dealer, i.e., a relatively straightfoward warranty fix? Or is the system more complicated?

-Steve
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      09-14-2012, 07:46 PM   #368
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As I've written before, it may be time to get media involved.
Getting the local paper or news channels to do a "consumer complaint" story would things rolling, especially if it's done in several different areas of the US.

When the HPFP issue started, BMW dealers and BMW were making claims similar claims as if any one individual was "the first" they've seen.
Given that we are a small percentage of F30 owners, it stands to reason that there are a LOT more F30's affected by this. It doesn't matter if this is a BMW. It could be a Mazda, Nissan, or Chevy, steering wheels shouldn't shake so much that you're feeling it.

Yes, some people report a light vibration, and some only when they take their hands off or hold it lightly, but there are also reports about heavy vibration that is distinctly felt even while holding the wheel normally. Whatever the problem is it seems to have variance in how heavy the problem is.

The responses some recent poster received from BMW is absolutely ridiculous, especially since some customers have already had their 3's replaced. That fact makes it clear that BMW does KNOW about this problem and it is NOT "normal for this model".

I'm glad I don't have this issue, but it irks me just the same.
It would be better if BMW admitted the problem and explain that they are aware of it and are working on a solution.
It's odd because I've read that BMW has acknowledged the problem and are working on it, but in the recent posts BMW is telling these new customers that their cars are operating "normally".
So which is it, it's normal? Or, they know there is a problem and are working on it?
BMW? Which one?
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      09-14-2012, 07:54 PM   #369
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPM90 View Post
As I've written before, it may be time to get media involved.
Getting the local paper or news channels to do a "consumer complaint" story would things rolling, especially if it's done in several different areas of the US.

When the HPFP issue started, BMW dealers and BMW were making claims similar claims as if any one individual was "the first" they've seen.
Given that we are a small percentage of F30 owners, it stands to reason that there are a LOT more F30's affected by this. It doesn't matter if this is a BMW. It could be a Mazda, Nissan, or Chevy, steering wheels shouldn't shake so much that you're feeling it.

Yes, some people report a light vibration, and some only when they take their hands off or hold it lightly, but there are also reports about heavy vibration that is distinctly felt even while holding the wheel normally. Whatever the problem is it seems to have variance in how heavy the problem is.

The responses some recent poster received from BMW is absolutely ridiculous, especially since some customers have already had their 3's replaced. That fact makes it clear that BMW does KNOW about this problem and it is NOT "normal for this model".

I'm glad I don't have this issue, but it irks me just the same.
It would be better if BMW admitted the problem and explain that they are aware of it and are working on a solution.
It's odd because I've read that BMW has acknowledged the problem and are working on it, but in the recent posts BMW is telling these new customers that their cars are operating "normally".
So which is it, it's normal? Or, they know there is a problem and are working on it?
BMW? Which one?
So upset! so disappointing!! I came from Infiniti family because I was expecting so much more, and what do I get! a 60k vibrator! aggrrr!!!

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      09-14-2012, 08:00 PM   #370
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There is simply no fix yet. Combine the fact that some people dont have the problem(or cant detect it)...
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      09-14-2012, 09:09 PM   #371
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I know that the people are starting to receive the 2013s. Anyone with MY13 with this problem? How about xDrive models?
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      09-15-2012, 12:27 AM   #372
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Hi ,

I just posted on the same issue. They told me that they are aware of the problem since April 2012.However,they should have mention that to the consumers, This vibration drives me completely insane I am working on changing the car out,however they go slow.But I won't stop till I am satisfied. For all that money that I paid,I better not have this vibration on my steering that is very noticable,and extremely annoying
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      09-15-2012, 04:53 AM   #373
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My F30 is back from Munich. Vibration is gone for good. Steering wheel is calm at any speeds now. And steering precision improved a lot, too.

It feels like driving a different, better car. Preeminent improvement (aside the vibrations gone) at low speeds (city driving) and on highways (over 100 mph).

What they did to fix it (they didn’t want to give it to me in writing, probably BMW directive):

Full disassembly and re-assembly of the front gear.
Power steering module replaced (full ZF unit with mounting, digged deeper on that).
Some work on the front suspension (can’t remember what exactly).
New Tires. Before: Continental runflat. Now: GoodYear EfficientGrip runflat.
A bunch of new Software (even the navigation system was re-set to factory settings).
Measurements and adjustments on some kind of test stand (put over 200 miles more on the odometer).

Well guys, that’s what it took to get my steering vibration fixed. I assume they first tried the obvious and easy (rims, tires, suspension, software) and finally were forced to exchange the whole power steering module. And that required an extensive assembly work with a full re-adjustment on the test stand.

That may be too much to ask from your local dealer or garage. He should probably send your car back to the factory it came from, to get the work done. Mine successfully did so. They got the right tools, equipment and knowledge.

The problem is that this isn’t your decision – it’s his. You cannot explicitly make him do this, but you can surely try to force his hand. Maybe there are costs involved, he would have to bear. Sure he will have to dispute with BMW, as this is not standard procedure (as far as I know).

The only thing you can do is to insistently claim your warranty and to do it in writing, so you are prepared for possible legal proceedings. Eventually you’ll either get your car fixed properly or will have to return your car for good.

After the first two unsuccessful repair attempts I refused to take the car back. I told them to keep it, as it is of no use to me, because I consider it unsafe to drive. My lawyer would contact them for further proceedings. That seemed to have surprised them as most people normally do not leave the cars they have paid already on the dealers court yard. As I started to call a cab with my cell phone things started evolving: I suddenly got an intermediate replacement and after a week I was informed, that my car has been send back to the factory for repairs.

Good luck!

Last edited by AutobahnDriver; 09-15-2012 at 06:06 AM. Reason: spelling
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      09-15-2012, 08:03 AM   #374
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AutobahnDriver View Post
My F30 is back from Munich. Vibration is gone for good. Steering wheel is calm at any speeds now. And steering precision improved a lot, too.

It feels like driving a different, better car. Preeminent improvement (aside the vibrations gone) at low speeds (city driving) and on highways (over 100 mph).

What they did to fix it (they didnít want to give it to me in writing, probably BMW directive):

Full disassembly and re-assembly of the front gear.
Power steering module replaced (full ZF unit with mounting, digged deeper on that).
Some work on the front suspension (canít remember what exactly).
New Tires. Before: Continental runflat. Now: GoodYear EfficientGrip runflat.
A bunch of new Software (even the navigation system was re-set to factory settings).
Measurements and adjustments on some kind of test stand (put over 200 miles more on the odometer).

Well guys, thatís what it took to get my steering vibration fixed. I assume they first tried the obvious and easy (rims, tires, suspension, software) and finally were forced to exchange the whole power steering module. And that required an extensive assembly work with a full re-adjustment on the test stand.

That may be too much to ask from your local dealer or garage. He should probably send your car back to the factory it came from, to get the work done. Mine successfully did so. They got the right tools, equipment and knowledge.

The problem is that this isnít your decision Ė itís his. You cannot explicitly make him do this, but you can surely try to force his hand. Maybe there are costs involved, he would have to bear. Sure he will have to dispute with BMW, as this is not standard procedure (as far as I know).

The only thing you can do is to insistently claim your warranty and to do it in writing, so you are prepared for possible legal proceedings. Eventually youíll either get your car fixed properly or will have to return your car for good.

After the first two unsuccessful repair attempts I refused to take the car back. I told them to keep it, as it is of no use to me, because I consider it unsafe to drive. My lawyer would contact them for further proceedings. That seemed to have surprised them as most people normally do not leave the cars they have paid already on the dealers court yard. As I started to call a cab with my cell phone things started evolving: I suddenly got an intermediate replacement and after a week I was informed, that my car has been send back to the factory for repairs.

Good luck!

Well done. Sounds like the way to handle it
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