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      10-19-2012, 01:48 PM   #551
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vkoprivica check this car and test it a lot man. It may be the case that someone or dealer is re-selling it due to vibration problem.

Try to drive the car on different types of road with speeds 45-60 mph.

The price and mileage make me to be cautious.
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      10-19-2012, 02:58 PM   #552
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Most likely based on price and mileage. Check carefully. Is this a dealer or person selling it ?
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      10-19-2012, 03:30 PM   #553
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This is the dealer.
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      10-19-2012, 09:57 PM   #554
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Here's a video I shot with my iPhone one morning. It's not that great since I was driving, but the vibration was typical of what I feel every day. Sometimes it's worse, sometimes I can barely see/feel it. I don't know if I'm particularly sensitive to it or mine is worse in intensity, but I can always feel as well as see the vibes. I noticed mine with about 400 miles on the car when the new car euphoria wore off. They road-forced the car, but nothing changed. I waited until after break in to see if anything changed, but nothing did so I have an appt scheduled for Monday morning. I know the hub/interface TSB that they just released will probably not fix it, but I just want to show that I went through the motions before I contact BMWNA.

http://s1154.photobucket.com/albums/...B53B295AB3.mp4
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      10-19-2012, 10:15 PM   #555
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Thank you for posting this video. I can see now that vibration can be very annoying, specially after paying in average $40000 for the car. I was dreaming for about a year that I will order a new 328i, but now I am sure that I will go with a demo model just to be able to test drove before purchase.
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      10-20-2012, 02:01 AM   #556
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diesel86 View Post
Here's a video I shot with my iPhone one morning. It's not that great since I was driving, but the vibration was typical of what I feel every day. Sometimes it's worse, sometimes I can barely see/feel it. I don't know if I'm particularly sensitive to it or mine is worse in intensity, but I can always feel as well as see the vibes. I noticed mine with about 400 miles on the car when the new car euphoria wore off. They road-forced the car, but nothing changed. I waited until after break in to see if anything changed, but nothing did so I have an appt scheduled for Monday morning. I know the hub/interface TSB that they just released will probably not fix it, but I just want to show that I went through the motions before I contact BMWNA.

http://s1154.photobucket.com/albums/...B53B295AB3.mp4
Tne vibration is very visible. Looks like steering wheel wants to come off and jump off the car. I hope someone from BMW watches it and realizes what we face, and rushes their work for a permenant fix. I want to enjoy the car and ride it rather than to test drive and take a video of it.
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      10-20-2012, 04:35 AM   #557
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I'm even more confused about this vibration issue, after watching the video.

I've been under the impression this vibration is a 'frequency' type of thing, similar to a wheel balance issue (hence why wheels have been included in the solution seeking process by dealers and BMW). Some have implied it may be an electrical induced thing, from the EPS, more like a buzzing sensation, from some of the descriptions posted.

What I'm seeing appears, (if I'm seeing it right) as the sort of thing many cars will induce on poor and random road surfaces, when you let go of the wheel. The video doesn't seem to show any particular vibration frequency, looks very random and varies in intensity to my vision.

I'm either missing something here, or it appears there are several types of issue, all mixed up in these threads. Then labled "the steering vibration" fault.

If that is what everyone is experiencing, I'd be looking more to road surface induced feedback. Many hydraulic systems can have a similar sort of feedback, unless completely numb to road feedback.

I'd like to see the comments of others against that video, as the video is nothing like what I was expecting to see as a "vibration".

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      10-20-2012, 10:17 AM   #558
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The video does not represent what I have experienced driving a 328 loaner. The vibration was a harmonic oscillation, with stable frequency, and amplitude.
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      10-20-2012, 10:29 AM   #559
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that video is not really good. Its to hard trying to record because its impossible to keep the camera steady. i have tried twice now taking a video and its just to hard.
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      10-20-2012, 02:05 PM   #560
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justinnum1 View Post
that video is not really good. Its to hard trying to record because its impossible to keep the camera steady. i have tried twice now taking a video and its just to hard.
Watch again, make video full screen and focus on the 10a and 2p positions where the material is seamed. Its fairly evident and exactly what I experienced on my test drive of a 2012 Sport.

Sure hope the dynamic handling package cars work around this issue. I suppose I shall see in about 6-8 weeks.
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      10-20-2012, 02:31 PM   #561
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Short update to the above case - the steering box was replaced but that didn't change much.
The vibrations from the steering wheel are still there (maybe a little less). However the "buzz"
at higher speeds has become worse although this may also be a result of the winter tyres that
were now mounted on the vehicle.

In any case my dealer has arranged the car to be sent to the factory for further checking.

Will send an update as soon as I have any further news.....
Another update - I had my car sent to the BMW HQ in Munich last week by the dealer.

They rebalanced the wheels/tyres using a Hunter Road Force balancer and replaced the transverse control arm with an updated component (according to my dealer).

The car was returned on Monday, however the vibrations are still there - not as strong as they were before, but they are definitely still there.

While my car was away, I had the chance to drive a brand new 320d Efficient Dynamics Edition with an 8 speed automatic transmission however without Servotronic or Variable Sports Steering. This replacement car did not show the steering wheel vibration around 46 - 53mph, nor did it have any of the buzzing that occurs at higher speeds above 86mph. It was rock steady and quite pleasant to drive, showing the driving attributes you would expect from a 3-series model.

Nonetheless it appears that BMW is either not willing to help or pretty much clueless in finding a solution to the vibration issue on vehicles that are currently affected by the problem.

To sum it up - in all my 12 years of driving various 3-series BMWs (e46, e46 LCI, e90, e90 LCI, F30) my current F30 is by far the worst 3-series model I have driven - it looks great but the driving characteristics are substandard and not what you would expect from a car in this price range.
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      10-21-2012, 10:45 AM   #562
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Have a new i335 m-sport with the 19's, pretty much everything except NO DH package. It is due to land in NY on the 25th. I am scheduled to pick it up around the 31st. I've been watching this thread and I can honestly say that BMW probably does not have a viable fix because they just cannot determine exactly what is causing it... and most new vehicles may not even have the issue at all (seeing many posts that say they do not have the problem). I've seen posts that say the problem has totally gone away after a rebalancing, or a new tire, and other posts with more extreme fixes and they are good too. Then again, many have had similar work done with perhaps only marginal improvement, or none at all. If the steering system is in fact the issue as many suggest, then obviously the problem would not go away by simply replacing one bad tire or a rebalancing (as some have indicated was the only problem). So I'm sure BMW cannot tie the issue down to anything in particular which in turn is why they are not responding with a fix.

There are quite a few posts and I could have missed it, but I have not seen a post where someone is experiencing the issue and has swapped out the wheels and tires (to their winter set), and indicated if the problem still existed.

I am going to drive the car on the 19's w/the summer rubber, (exact tire brand not known yet), here in Connecticut for about a month or less depending on changing weather temps and conditions. I already have on order a full set of new non-runflat winter tires and rims (18's). *IF* I have the issue with the 19's, I will be curious to see if the change-over makes any difference. Either way, I'll post again around the 1st of November whether or not I have the vibration problem and then go from there.
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      10-21-2012, 11:48 AM   #563
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Quote:
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Have a new i335 m-sport with the 19's, pretty much everything except NO DH package. It is due to land in NY on the 25th. I am scheduled to pick it up around the 31st. I've been watching this thread and I can honestly say that BMW probably does not have a viable fix because they just cannot determine exactly what is causing it... and most new vehicles may not even have the issue at all (seeing many posts that say they do not have the problem). I've seen posts that say the problem has totally gone away after a rebalancing, or a new tire, and other posts with more extreme fixes and they are good too. Then again, many have had similar work done with perhaps only marginal improvement, or none at all. If the steering system is in fact the issue as many suggest, then obviously the problem would not go away by simply replacing one bad tire or a rebalancing (as some have indicated was the only problem). So I'm sure BMW cannot tie the issue down to anything in particular which in turn is why they are not responding with a fix.

There are quite a few posts and I could have missed it, but I have not seen a post where someone is experiencing the issue and has swapped out the wheels and tires (to their winter set), and indicated if the problem still existed.

I am going to drive the car on the 19's w/the summer rubber, (exact tire brand not known yet), here in Connecticut for about a month or less depending on changing weather temps and conditions. I already have on order a full set of new non-runflat winter tires and rims (18's). *IF* I have the issue with the 19's, I will be curious to see if the change-over makes any difference. Either way, I'll post again around the 1st of November whether or not I have the vibration problem and then go from there.
Much of what you say is how I see the state of this issue, appears very much the same for F10 5-series users, who have reported a similar speed vibration issue in some examples.

It is clear not all cars have this problem, lots of happy drivers out there, which does hint at it not being a specific design fault, although this doesn't help those with vibration issues.

Some get a solution with a simple rebalance, (or road force balance), others with a different wheel set making it better or worse, others get a perfect solution with a different wheel/tire size. Or changing to a winter wheel set cures the issue. Some even find the problem diminishes over mileage on the same tires, or it completely goes away when the tires have mileage on them.

Certainly a problem, but does not does appear to have one cause. Not a 'one size fits all' solution at present, and hence why some get totally frustrated, even with BMW directly involved.

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      10-21-2012, 11:51 AM   #564
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Quote:
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....

There are quite a few posts and I could have missed it, but I have not seen a post where someone is experiencing the issue and has swapped out the wheels and tires (to their winter set), and indicated if the problem still existed...
I had winter tyres put on the car a few weeks ago, and it didn't solve the problem.

Summer tyres are 225/50 ContiSportContact runflats on 17" 397 starspoke rims

Winter tyres are 225/55 ContiWinterContact runflats on 16" 391 starspoke rims

Actually I still doubt the problems are in any way related to the tyres or rims.

In trying to narrow down the problem on my car, my dealer tried various tyre/rim combos, without being able to solve the issue. I suspect the problem is the result of various factors, which makes it occur randomly and hard for BMW to present a general fix.
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      10-21-2012, 12:15 PM   #565
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I've commented in other posts that there is the possibility of it being a production tolerance stack, which somehow allows/even sets up this vibration. Wheels may just be one factor in this critical build stack.

If it is, then it will be one of the most difficult things to solve, once a car is built. One, because many cars are totally unaffected, and two, what is the critical part, (or parts) which takes the tolerances out of phase and allows disturbance factors to set up vibrations? If changing the steering rack/assembly doesn't solve it in all cases, it appears outside of that function. BMW won't just opt for replacing parts, until the critical solution path is found. Clearly in some cases, changing wheels/tires brings the mechanical/moving parts back to an acceptable working level, where no disturbance is felt.

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      10-21-2012, 12:57 PM   #566
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Quote:
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I had winter tyres put on the car a few weeks ago, and it didn't solve the problem.

Summer tyres are 225/50 ContiSportContact runflats on 17" 397 starspoke rims

Winter tyres are 225/55 ContiWinterContact runflats on 16" 391 starspoke rims

Actually I still doubt the problems are in any way related to the tyres or rims.

In trying to narrow down the problem on my car, my dealer tried various tyre/rim combos, without being able to solve the issue. I suspect the problem is the result of various factors, which makes it occur randomly and hard for BMW to present a general fix.
Interesting. That would certainly take the wheel/tire equation out...at lease in your case. I agree with Pete that this has to be something unusual especially given all the scenarios, parts involved, solutions, etc. mentioned in this thread. I guess I'll just see if I am one of the lucky ones or not. Being as picky as I am I can certainly sympathize with you guys having the trouble. I'd be pretty upset too.
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      10-21-2012, 03:48 PM   #567
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In speaking with my dealer shop foreman as well as a tech at the Performance Center, BMW NA sent techs/engineers around the country to look at cars, test drive them, measure components, tires, wheel runout, etc.

They know there's a problem and are working on a solution or way to reduce the likelihood of noticeable vibration. I was told by both that most cars exhibits some level of steering wobble (when comparing to an E90 for example) but most cars do not transfer enough of the vibration energy into the drivers hand to be noticeable (yielding complaints). Some cars are worse than others and those are the ones BMW NA engineers are focusing on. They both said there is no fix yet, but an official bulletin with an update on the issue is expected "soon".

I asked if cars with the dynamic handling package were less susceptible, but neither knew (or was willing to discuss). The 2012 335i I drove at the performance center had a little wobble but it also had trashed tires. Really trashed, with a chunk missing on one. I believe it had the dynamic handling package since the cars there are always decked out with every option.

I saw users mention a new steering box part# and another a new control arm part#. I suspect BMW is throwing darts at the board looking for the quick fix. I'm not a mechanical engineer, however my hobby engineering degree (a.k.a Holiday Inn Express degree) tells me they have a steering rack issue. Something in the electric steering box is not absorbing a certain frequency range of vibration/motion that the hydraulic rack did. They either need to redesign the rack to compensate for these frequencies or figure out how to isolate them. My bet is a bandaid fix comes for MY12,13,14 cars and a real fix in a new redesign rack comes for the LCI like BMW is doing for the F10 LCI.

Roadforce balancing should not be necessary on these cars, nor should rejection of tires/wheels that would typically be acceptable. If the end result is tire/wheel and balancing tolerances that are tough to meet, this will only serve to be problematic for owners as their cars age. Hopefully a real fix is in the works.
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      10-21-2012, 04:01 PM   #568
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Looks like Electric Power Steering isn't really new technology. According to wikipedia, the Japanese first used it in a car in 1988.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electri...ectric_systems
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      10-21-2012, 04:36 PM   #569
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Looks like Electric Power Steering isn't really new technology. According to wikipedia, the Japanese first used it in a car in 1988.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electri...ectric_systems
We need to remember in this saga, that EPS is not new to 3-series cars in the F30, has been used in some models of the 3-series E90/1 in Europe, for several years. With no mention of any strange vibrations to my knowledge. Certainly not come across as an EPS issue, until its implementation in the F30.

So not so sure it is simply an EPS problem.

There is the possibility that the modified suspension bushing, to help mask RFT use, has a part to play. A reason for saying this, softening bushing in the E39 was a major contributor to the infamous E39 steering shimmy.

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      10-21-2012, 10:04 PM   #570
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We need to remember in this saga, that EPS is not new to 3-series cars in the F30, has been used in some models of the 3-series E90/1 in Europe, for several years. With no mention of any strange vibrations to my knowledge. Certainly not come across as an EPS issue, until its implementation in the F30.

So not so sure it is simply an EPS problem.

There is the possibility that the modified suspension bushing, to help mask RFT use, has a part to play. A reason for saying this, softening bushing in the E39 was a major contributor to the infamous E39 steering shimmy.

HighlandPete
I too don't think this is a steering rack issue, and certainly not a tire issue.
Seems it's something that rotates that sets up an oscillation.

I'm wondering if it's actual wheels that are out of round, yet even with different wheels the vibe is there. Could the different wheels be made by the same manufacturer with construction problems among the different wheels?If not, then maybe the problem is with the hubs, or bearings?
I was thinking maybe it's the rotors, but 335i front rotors are not the same as 328i rotors, so maybe we can count that out. Focus down to parts that are shared between the models.
There could be a problem with the tolerances of these items during manufacturing, where most are fine and many are not.

Sometimes, vibrations felt at the front are being caused by something in the rear. Drive shaft imbalance?
If it's not a rotating part perhaps bushings in the steering system with excess tolerance is allowing a side to side oscillation to develop.

Luckily I don't have a vibration. Recently my 335i developed a "clunk" felt in the steering wheel when I turn the wheel enough for a 90 degree turn.
But no vibes still.

I hope for BMW's sake that your cars get a REAL fix.
This is turning out to be like the HPFP issue with the N54.
With the difference being you either have the vibe or you don't right when the car is new.
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      10-21-2012, 10:50 PM   #571
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I test drove a Mercedes E350 and a C350 in the weekend on that same roads where I notice vibrations on my F30. None of these cars have any vibration. E350's steering is very soft compared to C350. It is even softer than F30's Eco mode. No vibration at all.

If you get over the steering wheel issue assuming BMW fixes it, Mercedes and Audi is no match for BMW. BMW has better engine, better gas mileage ( for HP ). The parking radar is beautiful and you also get the bird's eye view with the cameras. Cruise control is on the steering wheel so you don't accidentally hit it when turning on the signals. Mercedes has the engine, but lack good parking sensor system ( very important for me). Audi is totally over-priced for engine/HP ratio ( I feel cheated ).

If BMW cannot fix the issue, I am not going to buy a new Mercedes or Audi at this point. I will just re-invest the money and keep driving my previous car. I am biting my tounge not to buy a BMW because I was treated by the dealer and BMWNA. Hopefully Mercedes and Audi will catch up in terms of technology within 2014.

PS1 : Front display HUD is very nice on BMW. If you get it, I advice you get the speed limit info. It is very accurate and complements the HUD. It is going to save you from tickets. Mercedes doesn't have this feature on any car yet.

PS2 : Audi A6 looks promising for me. I may not need to wait till 2014.

Last edited by kirklander; 10-22-2012 at 02:29 AM.
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      10-22-2012, 04:30 AM   #572
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In for future reference, steering issue is scary.
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