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      07-25-2012, 08:51 AM   #133
mocohead
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Can people capture a video of this shaking and post it?
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      07-25-2012, 09:19 AM   #134
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A video would be nice. I'm taking mine in tomorrow morning to the dealer. They told me they're going to re-balance the wheels for the second time. 1200 miles on my car now.

Anything else I should say or do?
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      07-25-2012, 06:20 PM   #135
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I just had BMW offer to refund my car, minus a mileage fee. No replacement vehicle, but I guess it's essentially the same situation that everyone else is in - if you want to buy another BMW, they're not going to stop you.

I'm torn... I love the car, but I hate the shaky steering.

It all but goes away when the steering is set to "sport". I'd actually prefer if the sport steering could be left on permanently without the adjustments to the transmission/engine, etc. That would solve the problem for me.
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      07-25-2012, 06:26 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by glitched79 View Post
I just had BMW offer to refund my car, minus a mileage fee. No replacement vehicle, but I guess it's essentially the same situation that everyone else is in - if you want to buy another BMW, they're not going to stop you.

I'm torn... I love the car, but I hate the shaky steering.

It all but goes away when the steering is set to "sport". I'd actually prefer if the sport steering could be left on permanently without the adjustments to the transmission/engine, etc. That would solve the problem for me.
After how many times of you complaining to BMW before they offered you for a refund?
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      07-26-2012, 08:49 AM   #137
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Again it would be great to get some videos of this.

How many of you can feel it when you have your hands on the wheel?
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      07-26-2012, 09:23 AM   #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mocohead View Post
Again it would be great to get some videos of this.

How many of you can feel it when you have your hands on the wheel?
Honestly it depends.

I have a 2012 F30 335i which has a March 14th build date.

Mine is a little different. I get occasional vibration. Nothing severe, just very light. I would've never noticed this had I not read all the above posts.

I can live with this so I'm not complaining...
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      07-26-2012, 09:37 AM   #139
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Just got back from the dealer. I was there for 2 hours and they finally come tell me there is nothing they can do. They documented it and have an open ticket. They acknowledge the problem when I was there.

I proceed to call BMW on the way home. I told them of the issue and that I didn't think I should have to deal with it on a brand new 40k car. The lady I spoke with called the dealership and was told by them it just happens for an instant and goes away. I WAS MAD! They asked me to wait a bit to see if BMW issues a fix for it.

How long have you all waited to get your cars replaced.

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Just spoke with BMW USA again. Just told me they've acknowledged the problem, and are going to do nothing about it. They already had the case reviewed by engineers and there is no fix. "Unfortunately we are not going to take you out of this vehicle, you'll be notified when there is a fix".

Last edited by SmoothSteeringHopeful; 07-26-2012 at 04:21 PM.
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      07-26-2012, 08:21 PM   #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mocohead View Post
Again it would be great to get some videos of this.

How many of you can feel it when you have your hands on the wheel?
Before they trade assisted mine it was to the point of me feeling it with my hands. It was getting slowly but progressively worse.
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      07-27-2012, 06:59 AM   #141
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Before they trade assisted mine it was to the point of me feeling it with my hands. It was getting slowly but progressively worse.
That is interesting, as that looks as if it is a wheel issue.

Has anyone actually defined whether this issue 100% excludes wheels, by changing to some different rims and non run-flat tires?

I've been reading this thread as it develops and still not sure what the definition of this vibration is. Has it anything to to do with road/pavement surfaces? Does it come and go? Does it shake without hands on the wheel? Does it do it on load, off load, in neutral, engine revving, idling at the speeds it happens, etc.?

I drive an E91 with hydraulic steering and if I want to be really picky I can sense vibrations through the steering wheel, due to surface and road speed. Not a wheel balance issue, but simply a part of the road feel spectrum. This 'vibration' (if I call it that) was greatly improved when I dumped the run-flat tires.

The more I look for it, the more I notice it, (like folks see the dash reflection in the front screen, it is there for all of us, but some of us just don't see it). If I just drive, mind detached from "is it vibrating?" and it is what most cars with a bit of feedback, transfer through the steering wheel.

I'm not saying this is the case with the F30, but as no one seems to be getting a solution, I'm still trying to fully grasp the problem.

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      07-27-2012, 12:22 PM   #142
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Pete,

I have had my car for about 1500 miles now. For me, it only happens at mid level speeds and only on certain roads (or at least is significantly more pronounced on certain roads). I would say it is a problem happens on roughly 30% of roads. I live in Detroit suburbs but recently drove through OH, too, and it happened in both areas.

There is what I consider "normal" vibration/feedback which you have to really focus to see and can probably find on any sporty car depending on the road. Not a problem for me. The "problem" vibration/shaking is VERY obvious when it happens. If you experienced it you would have no doubt. These are not people nit-picking. This is a serious issue. Anyone who looked at the wheel while it is happening would ask why it was shaking. You can feel it immediately on driving and see it very plainly whether anyone is touching the wheel or not. I would call it a fast shaking more so than a "vibration"

I can reproduce it very clearly on certain roads every single time I drive on them. If I drive over these same roads in other cars, they experience no problems whatsoever. If I drove over these same roads at higher or lower speeds in the 328i than when the shaking occurs, there is no problem.

I have been driving for 25 years and never experienced anything like it. The closest thing I can compare it to is driving on extremely bald tires (but worse). I am guessing some roads are designed (or worn down) in a certain way that the 328i was just not built to accommodate or was not tested to work with them. Clearly, to me, it is an engineering problem since it happens only at certain (mid level) speeds, and can be clearly reproduced.

I just have too much stress in my life so I've learned to live with it for now. I'm just not interested in fighting the dealer/bmw about it. But it does make me somewhat regret buying the car. I hope someone else continues the fight and that somehow we get a fix.
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      07-27-2012, 02:20 PM   #143
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Excellent description, Scudder.

I experienced the problem when I received a F30 328 loaner about two months ago. The wheel actually quivers at around 45mph which you can see and feel. This car did it on most roads.

My 335 does not do this.

While it does feel like a tire issue, people have changed tires and wheels without resolving the issue. Interestingly, it appears to be a 328 issue as few (any?) 335 have the problem. Odd it is model specific as the suspension, steering and chassis is the same. Perhaps the extra ~150 pounds in the front of the 335 has an impact.
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      07-27-2012, 02:33 PM   #144
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^^^

Thanks for the explanation, the fact you can reproduce it on particular roads, is of specific interest.

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If you experienced it you would have no doubt. These are not people nit-picking. This is a serious issue.
Which begs the question have any of BMW's Technical guys (I don't mean from the dealers but the 'Area Technical Managers' as we have for the UK) sat besides drivers who can reproduce it on demand.

Trying to get inside this (as an engineering designer/problem solver), I do feel there is something feeding back from the road, which when meeting specific conditions, likely sets up some 'odd beat' harmonics which the working parameters of the EPS can't filter out.

The fact that a poster has mentioned road force balancing reducing the problem, and another that the sport setting also reducing the vibration level, does point at the way any interference factors are damped out. Seems some combinations of interference can still get through.

My own experience in an example of the 328i, for 80 or so miles over all kinds of surfaces, did not give me any vibrations or shake, and I'm a fussy guy when it ccomes to testing BMW steering and suspensions. But I did have one F10 5-series on test with 18" wheels, which had some vibration coming back to the steering wheel. I drove another example back to back, but on 19" wheels, was a completely different steering feel over the same roads, no vibration at all back to the steering wheel. This was way before the F30 was released and ahead of this issue of vibration being highlighted. To be honest I saw it as still having a run-flat trait, on the 18" wheel set, as wheel sizes were very critical on many of the earlier run-flat shod cars, even with hydraulic steering.

Hence why I ask if anyone has removed the wheel/tires and are running non run-flats and find it is different, or completely resolved. (Or even a different wheel and tire size). I still suspect the tires may be involved in generating the conditions which cannot be damped out within the EPS system.

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      07-27-2012, 04:27 PM   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scudder View Post
Pete,

I have had my car for about 1500 miles now. For me, it only happens at mid level speeds and only on certain roads (or at least is significantly more pronounced on certain roads). I would say it is a problem happens on roughly 30% of roads. I live in Detroit suburbs but recently drove through OH, too, and it happened in both areas.

There is what I consider "normal" vibration/feedback which you have to really focus to see and can probably find on any sporty car depending on the road. Not a problem for me. The "problem" vibration/shaking is VERY obvious when it happens. If you experienced it you would have no doubt. These are not people nit-picking. This is a serious issue. Anyone who looked at the wheel while it is happening would ask why it was shaking. You can feel it immediately on driving and see it very plainly whether anyone is touching the wheel or not. I would call it a fast shaking more so than a "vibration"

I can reproduce it very clearly on certain roads every single time I drive on them. If I drive over these same roads in other cars, they experience no problems whatsoever. If I drove over these same roads at higher or lower speeds in the 328i than when the shaking occurs, there is no problem.

I have been driving for 25 years and never experienced anything like it. The closest thing I can compare it to is driving on extremely bald tires (but worse). I am guessing some roads are designed (or worn down) in a certain way that the 328i was just not built to accommodate or was not tested to work with them. Clearly, to me, it is an engineering problem since it happens only at certain (mid level) speeds, and can be clearly reproduced.

I just have too much stress in my life so I've learned to live with it for now. I'm just not interested in fighting the dealer/bmw about it. But it does make me somewhat regret buying the car. I hope someone else continues the fight and that somehow we get a fix.
This is a great explaination of what this condition is as I experianced it when I had my 328.

I can only repeat what others have said about it:
This is NOT normal.
ANY premium brand car should not do this.
And BMW appears to not be taking it very seriously. They appear to only be appeasing customers on a "as needed" basis. You got to be squeaky to get the grease.
My 535 does NOT do this! Heck my daughters Hyundai Sonata does not do this.

I wish others with this problem get it resolved satisfactorily very soon. I was not going to wait the 9-12 months they told me it would take.
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      07-27-2012, 04:38 PM   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
Trying to get inside this (as an engineering designer/problem solver), I do feel there is something feeding back from the road, which when meeting specific conditions, likely sets up some 'odd beat' harmonics which the working parameters of the EPS can't filter out.
I believe you are correct; there is a resonance or harmonic beating somewhere in the system, but one which is not the simple result of a single factor. This is also why I suspect the weight of the 335 mitigates the appearance of the problem.
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      07-27-2012, 10:07 PM   #147
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I believe there is an balance issue as well. I went through hell today with my dealership and BMW. I was basically told to deal with it and they'll let me know when BMW tells them how to fix it. I drove 4 328i's today. 3 base models, like mine with the 17 inch wheels and they all had issues. I drove one modern line with the bigger wheels, no issues. I asked for a loaner till they fixed the problem. I asked them to try different wheels and tires on the car. I asked them to try to fix the problem and not have the customer do the ground working trying to figure it out for them. LORD was I angry.

Alas Every manager there talked to me it seems, told me the same thing. "Sorry but we are not going to help you." Makes me regret spending $40k on my first new car, and first BMW ever.

I also asked if they were going to notify every new 3 series customer of the issue, they all looked like a cat caught their tongue. I'm filing complaints with everyone right now.
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      07-27-2012, 11:27 PM   #148
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This is no consolation for those with the problem, but our new 2012 328i sport-line has not yet shown a vibration. Standard sport-line wheels, Pirelli RFTs, fixed steering and suspension. Mid-June build.
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      07-28-2012, 12:19 AM   #149
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I believe there is an balance issue as well. I went through hell today with my dealership and BMW. I was basically told to deal with it and they'll let me know when BMW tells them how to fix it. I drove 4 328i's today. 3 base models, like mine with the 17 inch wheels and they all had issues. I drove one modern line with the bigger wheels, no issues. I asked for a loaner till they fixed the problem. I asked them to try different wheels and tires on the car. I asked them to try to fix the problem and not have the customer do the ground working trying to figure it out for them. LORD was I angry.

Alas Every manager there talked to me it seems, told me the same thing. "Sorry but we are not going to help you." Makes me regret spending $40k on my first new car, and first BMW ever.

I also asked if they were going to notify every new 3 series customer of the issue, they all looked like a cat caught their tongue. I'm filing complaints with everyone right now.
Sorry to hear that.
I firmly believe that BMW is leaving it up to the dealer to keep customers happy or not.
Check to see your options under lemon law. I know SC has one because I used it before on a Nissan when I was stationed in Charleston.
I know that my dealer became much more reasonable when I mentioned that my car met the requirements to begin lemon law proceedings.
Good Luck!
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      07-28-2012, 08:20 AM   #150
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I have the shake too and just realized that when I brake harder than normal while turning, for instance, braking quickly to slow before making a U-turn, it shudders even harder. Is this something separate? Or the same thing made worse by the braking/turning combination?
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      07-28-2012, 08:20 AM   #151
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Sorry to hear that.
I firmly believe that BMW is leaving it up to the dealer to keep customers happy or not.
Check to see your options under lemon law. I know SC has one because I used it before on a Nissan when I was stationed in Charleston.
I know that my dealer became much more reasonable when I mentioned that my car met the requirements to begin lemon law proceedings.
Good Luck!
Thanks buddy. I'm filing with the BBB today and I'm looking up lemon laws. The GM at the store tried to say that we couldn't and we don't qualify. I think I'll find out for myself.
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      07-28-2012, 08:23 AM   #152
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I have the shake too and just realized that when I brake harder than normal while turning, for instance, braking quickly to slow before making a U-turn, it shudders even harder. Is this something separate? Or the same thing made worse by the braking/turning combination?
The dealership I was at wants to tell me its a problem with the electronic steering trying to straighten the wheels around those speeds. I don't think this is the case. The resonance must be increased when braking and turning certain ways, thats what I think at least.

What wheels do you have? I'd like to start a poll to show which wheels have the vibration.
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      07-28-2012, 08:30 AM   #153
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The dealership I was at wants to tell me its a problem with the electronic steering trying to straighten the wheels around those speeds. I don't think this is the case. The resonance must be increased when braking and turning certain ways, thats what I think at least.

What wheels do you have? I'd like to start a poll to show which wheels have the vibration.
A poll would be helpful. It's a very unpleasant grinding/wobble (almost like anitlock) very briefly. I have the sportline 18's. I would also start a poll for the types of tire. After doing some research, I found that an inconsistent side wall thickness can cause a steering shake. That would explain why people who have moved to non-run-flats have been fixing the problem. Food for thought
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      07-28-2012, 08:37 AM   #154
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A poll would be helpful. It's a very unpleasant grinding/wobble (almost like anitlock) very briefly. I have the sportline 18's. I would also start a poll for the types of tire. After doing some research, I found that an inconsistent side wall thickness can cause a steering shake. That would explain why people who have moved to non-run-flats have been fixing the problem. Food for thought
I posted one... its ugly! haha
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