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      08-28-2012, 05:00 PM   #23
scskysc
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I just wish there was a company that sold tuning software so that people like me could do it on our own.
I'm closely following these kinds of posts with the hopes that a viable solution will be available, but just don't like the idea of piggy-back systems as much as direct ECU manipulation. I have done both and with great success, but with today's technology I prefer to have the vehicles original ECU take care of business.

I'd like to see what COBB has to offer with AccessTuner. It's a bit like EFILive that I use on my SKY and hope that the software is as robust as EFILive is. You can have every table known to man exposed in the software, but if you can't interpret what is going on with a known engine model then all of those tables are useless.

Load based ECU systems and the use of coefficients over VE tables in the most up to date systems means that if the software isn't up to the task of viewing it, then not many tuners will be able to build safe tunes.
I know a good bit about new GM ECU's, but not much yet about the BMW DME. For now..
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      08-28-2012, 05:47 PM   #24
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If you are seriously interested in ecu tuning for yourself, my E46 M3 ran off a motec m600 or you could use the more common bosch 4.3 control unit found in current grand-am cars. You are looking at about $5,000 for the motec with sensors and none of the features besides basic engine duties will work at all and you will have to beg for a base map that is close to your engine so you can even start it the first time.

Data logging with track time is the only way to produce reliable track tunes and the vendors will have to accept less power than the drag/dyno tuners are getting.
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      08-28-2012, 06:18 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mocohead View Post
While browsing around for other tunes, I stumbled across a company in Germany that offers a tune for our cars. Below is the email I got from them...
This took a bit of looking to find them, but

http://www.swiss-chiptech.com/chiptuning-box_bmw.html

It seems reasonable to look toward countries closer to Germany for tunes to me because this isn't the only country that drives faster than stock cars. Their claim is peak 278hp, 296lb/torque but as always I'd love to see the graphs, egt and a/f if I can

BMS, 258hp and 281lb/torque ($375)
BMS+ER downpipe, 270hp, 304lb/torque ($850?)
Kelleners/Hartge, 294hp, 310lb/torque ($1300)
Speed Buster, 290hp, 324lb/torque (about $800)

BMS has the best data out that I know of, 281lb vs 296lb/torque is heavy but I already see things in the BMS graph that I personally am not happy with that seem stressful but I am not an engine tuner and only have basic knowledge of what I can see in the data they are allowing people to see.
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      08-28-2012, 08:41 PM   #26
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What do you guy's think about JB tune? They claim the 0-60 is down to 4.9 seconds
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      08-28-2012, 08:54 PM   #27
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JB is BMS from my list above, I'd say for the price it sounds good and they have around 100 installed so feedback must not be extremely negative.

The others are expensive, and do not seem to have the easiest support although Speed Buster claims 324lb/torque which would be quite nice in our cars especially if you could run the downpipe on top of that.
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      08-28-2012, 08:59 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brian99997 View Post
JB is BMS from my list above, I'd say for the price it sounds good and they have around 100 installed so feedback must not be extremely negative.

The others are expensive, and do not seem to have the easiest support although Speed Buster claims 324lb/torque which would be quite nice in our cars especially if you could run the downpipe on top of that.
Yea 324lb/ft does sound good, but look at the speed buster thread and the video they posted. Kinda weird, but it still does 0-60 in about 6 seconds
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      09-07-2012, 11:17 AM   #29
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Looks like Cobb could REALLY sell their AP for the N20! I'd sure buy it.
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      09-07-2012, 09:32 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brian99997 View Post
This took a bit of looking to find them, but

http://www.swiss-chiptech.com/chiptuning-box_bmw.html

It seems reasonable to look toward countries closer to Germany for tunes to me because this isn't the only country that drives faster than stock cars. Their claim is peak 278hp, 296lb/torque but as always I'd love to see the graphs, egt and a/f if I can

BMS, 258hp and 281lb/torque ($375)
BMS+ER downpipe, 270hp, 304lb/torque ($850?)
Kelleners/Hartge, 294hp, 310lb/torque ($1300)
Speed Buster, 290hp, 324lb/torque (about $800)

BMS has the best data out that I know of, 281lb vs 296lb/torque is heavy but I already see things in the BMS graph that I personally am not happy with that seem stressful but I am not an engine tuner and only have basic knowledge of what I can see in the data they are allowing people to see.
BMS rates their power gains in wheel horsepower, so multiply times ~1.18 to get crank horsepower as the others advertise.

Mike
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      11-02-2012, 06:40 AM   #31
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Check this out! http://www.racechip.de/en/chiptuning...328i-180kw.php

Racechip 221 kW / 300hp / 420 Nm
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      11-02-2012, 09:31 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Sillhuvet View Post
Check this out! http://www.racechip.de/en/chiptuning...328i-180kw.php

Racechip 221 kW / 300hp / 420 Nm
Meh.. too cheap and too high gain for it to feel like a reliable choice. I'd rather wait/hope for a Performance kit. Like the one for the 335i or 320d.

Nice nick btw
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      11-02-2012, 09:56 AM   #33
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Could be, however two of my friends are very pleased with their chipboxes from racechip. They have VW Polo and Range Rover Evoque.


Edit:
Hint: The performance data shown here represents maximum values achievable. The real performance output depends on the serial tolerances of the vehicle. We deliver the RaceChip with the best possible setting for your vehicle type. You can adjust the performance according to your requirements on the RaceChip.

Last edited by Sillhuvet; 11-05-2012 at 07:46 AM.
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      11-12-2012, 03:58 AM   #34
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This thread is so interesting.

Also, I did get in contact with BMS reps via email and both of the person i talked to said that when using their JB stage 1 for N20 engines - it will be invisible / no CEL or code - basically its safe without the need to delete these codes when going in for service. I wonder if this true. (Ofc to detach all tunes bfr going in to dealer).

I need real tuner whom have used JB1 and serviced their car under warranty with no problem. Anyone?

Replies much appreciated.
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      11-12-2012, 09:45 AM   #35
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Quote:
brian9997
Regarding the BMS piggyback,

You see things on the dyno graph that are "stressful and your not happy with" but your not a professional tuner?

..........Ok :
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      11-12-2012, 09:53 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MidgetInBikini
This thread is so interesting.

Also, I did get in contact with BMS reps via email and both of the person i talked to said that when using their JB stage 1 for N20 engines - it will be invisible / no CEL or code - basically its safe without the need to delete these codes when going in for service. I wonder if this true. (Ofc to detach all tunes bfr going in to dealer).

I need real tuner whom have used JB1 and serviced their car under warranty with no problem. Anyone?

Replies much appreciated.
If you just spoke with the people that made the product and they told you no codes will be thrown, what more do you need?

You just spoke with the real tuners. If you are getting an oil change done or whatever else you can leave it installed. Now if you are going in for warranty work I would remove it.
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      11-12-2012, 03:10 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bnekic
Quote:
Originally Posted by MidgetInBikini
This thread is so interesting.

Also, I did get in contact with BMS reps via email and both of the person i talked to said that when using their JB stage 1 for N20 engines - it will be invisible / no CEL or code - basically its safe without the need to delete these codes when going in for service. I wonder if this true. (Ofc to detach all tunes bfr going in to dealer).

I need real tuner whom have used JB1 and serviced their car under warranty with no problem. Anyone?

Replies much appreciated.
If you just spoke with the people that made the product and they told you no codes will be thrown, what more do you need?

You just spoke with the real tuners. If you are getting an oil change done or whatever else you can leave it installed. Now if you are going in for warranty work I would remove it.
Oh. I thought they check the computer every time we service it even for an oil change.. Anyway dumb question but, is it safe to use jb on all stock engine? Not gonna blow up or something right haha
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      11-12-2012, 03:18 PM   #38
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I don't believe they check the computer for tunes or piggybacks when getting your oil changed.

Yes the BMS piggyback is safe for stock engines.
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      11-12-2012, 04:11 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bnekic View Post
I don't believe they check the computer for tunes or piggybacks when getting your oil changed.

Yes the BMS piggyback is safe for stock engines.
Im sorry but what is piggyback? having to read all of them here it must mean something important. (newb here )

thanks
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      11-12-2012, 04:39 PM   #40
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Piggyback is the JB Stage 1 from BMS. The unit they sell is called a piggyback since it plugs into various sensors in the engine bay and "piggybacks" off the factory ECU.

Piggybacks essentially trick the factory ECU with what data it's receiving to make more power.
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      11-12-2012, 09:25 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bnekic View Post
Regarding the BMS piggyback,

You see things on the dyno graph that are "stressful and your not happy with" but your not a professional tuner?

..........Ok :
Sorry, I am only paid to drive so I have to defer to what I have seen and this specific set of graphs posted by Terry@BMS is not as smooth as some of the cars I've driven but you can see even the stock ECU that he had was not ideal to work with and this isn't a limited edition car with each engine tuned from the factory.

Fuel has a 5-10% lean area at 3300-4200rpm vs BMW which seems to happen as HP levels out and then BMS gets rich on the torque dip regaining it's HP advantage over BMW, and then gets lean again at 5800-redline but this time it seems that BMW's tune is losing HP to BMS until some crazy engine change at 6200 giving BMW more torque and BMS less although I can only imagine this is a fluke though.

The next two graphs seem to be +3psi (bottom) compared to BMW (top graph), neither is very effective at keeping boost at X but skipping the last spike at the end, BMW's has the tighter/more controlled range.

http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15536

Personally from a driving perspective the torque curve itself is very peaky in an area that I don't use which generates impressive peak numbers below 3000, but I shift closer to 7? so the 4500+ area is important to me and the gap is decreasing compared to BMW on top of Terry telling me it was 'meant more for street cars, drag cars, etc' when asked about road racing DE type events.

With all of that being said, one of these (probably BMS because they actually talked to me unlike some others) would be in my car right now if I didn't have to take it out every week that I wanted to do more than a 1/4mi run or a semi street legal sub 75mph punch up a freeway ramp but for these types of things, it's great.

Also, Terry@BMS said that even the stock car can benefit from some additional octane and his setup definitely would. I didn't get a clear answer so I don't know if those dyno plots were with 91 octane (the highest commonly available to CA residents such as BMS) or if it was an e85 blend or something along those lines.
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      11-12-2012, 10:50 PM   #42
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Quote:

Sorry, I am only paid to drive so I have to defer to what I have seen and this specific set of graphs posted by Terry@BMS is not as smooth as some of the cars I've driven but you can see even the stock ECU that he had was not ideal to work with and this isn't a limited edition car with each engine tuned from the factory.

Fuel has a 5-10% lean area at 3300-4200rpm vs BMW which seems to happen as HP levels out and then BMS gets rich on the torque dip regaining it's HP advantage over BMW, and then gets lean again at 5800-redline but this time it seems that BMW's tune is losing HP to BMS until some crazy engine change at 6200 giving BMW more torque and BMS less although I can only imagine this is a fluke though.

The next two graphs seem to be +3psi (bottom) compared to BMW (top graph), neither is very effective at keeping boost at X but skipping the last spike at the end, BMW's has the tighter/more controlled range.

http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15536

Personally from a driving perspective the torque curve itself is very peaky in an area that I don't use which generates impressive peak numbers below 3000, but I shift closer to 7? so the 4500+ area is important to me and the gap is decreasing compared to BMW on top of Terry telling me it was 'meant more for street cars, drag cars, etc' when asked about road racing DE type events.

With all of that being said, one of these (probably BMS because they actually talked to me unlike some others) would be in my car right now if I didn't have to take it out every week that I wanted to do more than a 1/4mi run or a semi street legal sub 75mph punch up a freeway ramp but for these types of things, it's great.

Also, Terry@BMS said that even the stock car can benefit from some additional octane and his setup definitely would. I didn't get a clear answer so I don't know if those dyno plots were with 91 octane (the highest commonly available to CA residents such as BMS) or if it was an e85 blend or something along those lines.
I understand. I come from the Evo community where we usually get custom tunes done on the dyno or street. These tunes can be used for a wide variety of driving situations.

I'm glad BMS offers this piggyback from road or 1/4 mile use as you said. If BMS cracks the factory ECU and starts custom tuning that would be awesome!



Regarding the lean areas you see, isn't this potentially dangerous for the engine if these areas are too lean? I'm going to be running an aFe cold air intake with aFe intake scoop so won't that cause more lean conditions? I will be using 93 octane since I'm in Ohio.
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      11-13-2012, 01:04 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MidgetInBikini View Post
This thread is so interesting.

Also, I did get in contact with BMS reps via email and both of the person i talked to said that when using their JB stage 1 for N20 engines - it will be invisible / no CEL or code - basically its safe without the need to delete these codes when going in for service. I wonder if this true. (Ofc to detach all tunes bfr going in to dealer).

I need real tuner whom have used JB1 and serviced their car under warranty with no problem. Anyone?

Replies much appreciated.
Where is the best price for BMS for F30 328i shipped?
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      11-13-2012, 02:50 AM   #44
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Where is the best price for BMS for F30 328i shipped?
Not sure but when you get it online the price is usually around the same.

If youre lucky some b-and-m might match the online price, imo.
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