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      05-31-2012, 09:56 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by liljestig View Post
As I found, the BMW is much more fun to drive around town, and more enjoyable for trips lets say less than 300 km. But it can also be quite tiring driving for long hours, due to its somewhat nervous personality. The MB is however of a more relaxed nature, yet very competent when called for, but never really as inspiring to drive actively.

The difference with the BMW, is that when arriving after regularly spending 400-500 km behind the wheel, it takes its price in the form of: aching back, sore butt, and sometimes feeling completely exhausted. In contrast, traveling the same distance, on the same roads, with the MB however, it instead makes me feel more rested, relaxed and better prepared for the other activities I am set for when arriving.

If like "driving", and mostly do shorter trips, the answer is simply "BMW". But if frequently traveling long distances (three-four hours) and want to arrive more rested and relaxed, I would say the MB is the better choice.

Since not driving so long distances anymore living in Singapore (at least not frequently), my choice is already made. (BMW ) And tomorrow afternoon, I'm going to pick up the new beauty..
I disagree with you there... when i had my e92 335i, i took a trip to NY from FL, and oh man, I wanted to keep going up straight to Canada... that's how i felt. I loved driving that car. and mind you, it was snowing up north :P. However, The passenger in the back wasnt that confortable, afterall, it was a 2 door and long trip for him.

I ordered an F30 335i, and i hope i get the same feedback i used to get from the e92. Reading up this thread, made me feel like I will be a bit disappointed

edit: and i would also love to drive my car to Orlando, that is 230miles up north.
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      05-31-2012, 10:01 AM   #46
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The C250 Sport base model is equipped with lowered sport suspension and performance tires, for fair comparison you should take a 328i sport line, making the price difference more than just 5%. The real world price difference is much greater.

For those not much into driving dynamics, the C250 IMO not only is a more comfortable car, but a better looking sporty sedan. For me to accept the F30 look, I will have to wait for the M package.

The C250 Sport looks right without any sport or appearance options.
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      05-31-2012, 10:40 AM   #47
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Idk what to do guys help me out... Should I wait for the new BMW 3/4 series coupe to come out or get the new 335i :
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      05-31-2012, 12:16 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adamsclubs View Post
The C250 Sport base model is equipped with lowered sport suspension and performance tires, for fair comparison you should take a 328i sport line, making the price difference more than just 5%. The real world price difference is much greater.

For those not much into driving dynamics, the C250 IMO not only is a more comfortable car, but a better looking sporty sedan. For me to accept the F30 look, I will have to wait for the M package.

The C250 Sport looks right without any sport or appearance options.
Sorry to say but you're a BIG HYPOCRITE. Go buy a Mercedes-Benz if you like it.
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      05-31-2012, 01:11 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Propagator View Post
I'm not saying the general message of this review is completely off. But everything he said could have been said by anyone reading car magazine reviews without every driving the car. My point was that he sounded like he made up his mind even before he drove it. I understand that the F30 is a great car, but think of it this way. If the conclusion of his review was the exact opposite, wouldn't you still say that this was a fair review?

Also, although I have not driven it, I've read rave reviews about the steering on the late model C63 AMG as being significantly better than that of the M3.



Variable sport steering is a completely different beast from the Active steering. Besides, none of this changes the fact that he claimed the E90 steering was luxury oriented and numb, whereas the hydraulic steering on the F30 has more feel. Again, the F30 is a great car, but come on. That's like saying the new 911 is a much better car than the previous gen, and has a way more engaging steering. Only half of that statement is true and the other half is the opposite of true.

I do not think any US model E90 came with EPS. I'm quite certain of it. There was a confusion for a while that the 128i came with the EPS (thanks to information on bmwusa.com), but my understanding is that even that wasn't true.
I've read the same about the newer C63's, too, but since I've never actually driven one I can't verify that. I was only talking about the early-year C63s which I have personal experience with. But honestly, the steering in the regular W204 C class is waaayy too soft, if you're going around a gentle curve and hit a bump you always end up accidentally tugging at the wheel which is extremely annoying especially when someone else is driving and you're being tossed around the passenger seat. The rest of the C class is actually really good, if you live in an area with rough roads like I do I can totally understand why you would chose the C over a 3 series (I know plenty of people who had E90s and replaced them with C classes) but I remember the later year W203 C230s as being a ton more fun than the new ones.

Whatever steering my 2007 E90 had, it was excellent, but my 135i has an order of magnitude more steering feel so it wouldn't surprise me if the E90 had EPS since I know the 135i has mechanical power steering.
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      05-31-2012, 01:14 PM   #50
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At the end of the day a lot of it comes down to personal preference, sheesh. Who cares. Buy the car you want.
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      05-31-2012, 01:16 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by rolren View Post
Sorry to say but you're a BIG HYPOCRITE. Go buy a Mercedes-Benz if you like it.
+1

not just him though, look at the 2011 E9X owners on this thread. It's expected of 2011 3 owners to hate the new generation (either they really hate it or hating it to JUSTIFY their 1 year old car that's kinda old now because of the new gen)
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      05-31-2012, 03:46 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rolren View Post
Sorry to say but you're a BIG HYPOCRITE. Go buy a Mercedes-Benz if you like it.
Inigo: I do not think it means what you think it means.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Remonster View Post
I've read the same about the newer C63's, too, but since I've never actually driven one I can't verify that. I was only talking about the early-year C63s which I have personal experience with. But honestly, the steering in the regular W204 C class is waaayy too soft, if you're going around a gentle curve and hit a bump you always end up accidentally tugging at the wheel which is extremely annoying especially when someone else is driving and you're being tossed around the passenger seat. The rest of the C class is actually really good, if you live in an area with rough roads like I do I can totally understand why you would chose the C over a 3 series (I know plenty of people who had E90s and replaced them with C classes) but I remember the later year W203 C230s as being a ton more fun than the new ones.

Whatever steering my 2007 E90 had, it was excellent, but my 135i has an order of magnitude more steering feel so it wouldn't surprise me if the E90 had EPS since I know the 135i has mechanical power steering.
I've also driven the C250, and I agree with your assessment. It is actually quite sporty, but that sporting intention is noticeably let down by the overly light steering. I've read that the actual feedback is ok once you push it, but still the combination of the CLS sourced, ultra sporty steering wheel with that finger light steering effort came off as kind of weird.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calmwinds View Post
+1

not just him though, look at the 2011 E9X owners on this thread. It's expected of 2011 3 owners to hate the new generation (either they really hate it or hating it to JUSTIFY their 1 year old car that's kinda old now because of the new gen)
I do not hate the F30. I think it is a great car, and I would choose it over the C class as well. I also think it would serve my family better than my E90, although I'm not convinced that it will serve ME better. But that does not change the fact that the review was a pure horse manure and the reviewer sounded like a fat frat boy who's way too excited about being selected for some body spray free trial program.
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      05-31-2012, 05:52 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Propagator View Post
Inigo: I do not think it means what you think it means.
Yea, you'd think when someone tries to throw a big word around, he would at least first figure out what it really means

Quote:
I've also driven the C250, and I agree with your assessment. It is actually quite sporty, but that sporting intention is noticeably let down by the overly light steering. I've read that the actual feedback is ok once you push it, but still the combination of the CLS sourced, ultra sporty steering wheel with that finger light steering effort came off as kind of weird.
Yes the C250 steering was a bit light, but tightened up as the speed was up. But here is the thing, the F30 steering was a let-down from E90, so the gap is closed a little.

Quote:
I do not hate the F30. I think it is a great car, and I would choose it over the C class as well. I also think it would serve my family better than my E90, although I'm not convinced that it will serve ME better. But that does not change the fact that the review was a pure horse manure and the reviewer sounded like a fat frat boy who's way too excited about being selected for some body spray free trial program.
The biggest let-down of the F30 for me is the front design. There is a good chance I will get a F30 335i with M-sport, if other alternatives are still not worth the money. If that should happen, I guess I can tell the above few folks who just bought the first MY F30, that they are just stuck with a first year (usually unreliable) and ugly model, while I am driving the latest more sporty looking, with all the bugs worked out, and have all the newer techs.

This is what happens when people can't debate on merits.

Next year this time the comparisons will be more interesting, the F30 M sport will be readily available, the all new Caddy ATS too, so is the redesigned G37. Even the A4 will have some facelift done to it.
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      05-31-2012, 08:34 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bcl0328 View Post
yea, but all the price added was options like premium package, xenons, tech package, etc. none of that added to the performance and handling. they could have used a base or sport line and it would be way cheaper.
Very true. Last week ordered a 328i (for my son (As I've said in other posts, I HATE this lines thing, but buying for my kid, it doesn't bother me at all) and with the stuff I think he needs and would like, (Sport line, tech package, heated seats and wheel, upgraded audio and moonroof -- no leather) my dealer will sell it for roughly $40K. I would have liked to get the red interior and the xenon lights, but that would have pushed me outside my budget (40K). Moreover, the xenons force one to get the premium package, which to my mind is the biggest waste of money going.

Though I don't care at all for this "lines" thing, I'm content that I can get a suitable car for a reasonable price. Someone above mentioned the Benz being $41K As I'm paying a bit less than that, the BMW seems all the better.
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      05-31-2012, 09:28 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by gator15 View Post
I am a little confused as to why some people think that this comparison isn't relevant because a new C class will be coming out in a few years. Unless it has reached the showroom floor, it is irrelevant to me to even think about the new model. The current C250 is what Mercedes offers right now, so I find it completely relevant to compare it with the 328i. Of course there is a major price difference between the two and that should be mentioned in any comparison of the two cars. However, if you are looking for a luxury 4 cylinder, an average consumer probably will compare the two.
You're completely right, both cars are currently what's being offered and if people are looking for a luxury turbo 4 they will cross shop the 328i, C250, and A4. However, there's currently a 5 year gap between the C-class and the 3-series whereas when the new C comes out there will only be a 1-2 year gap.

Mercedes in general has trouble comparing to BMW performance wise even when new, the current gen has no chance. Compounded by the fact that the new 1.8L in the Mercedes actually makes less power than the 3L it's replacing. Whereas like Liljestig said the BMW's 2L is suppose to replace a 3L engine for well into the future, not to mention the turbo 4 is underrated from the factory.

Quote:
Originally Posted by liljestig View Post
The new N20 four-cylinder engine of the BMW plays in a completely different league than any of its four-cylinder competitors, including MB. It is meant to replace a three-liter six-cylinder engine in terms of performance and smoothness (using balance axles), while at the same time saving 15-20 percent fuel in compare to its six-cylinder predecessor.
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      05-31-2012, 09:43 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by remydlc View Post
I disagree with you there... when i had my e92 335i, i took a trip to NY from FL, and oh man, I wanted to keep going up straight to Canada... that's how i felt. I loved driving that car. and mind you, it was snowing up north :P. However, The passenger in the back wasnt that confortable, afterall, it was a 2 door and long trip for him.

I ordered an F30 335i, and i hope i get the same feedback i used to get from the e92. Reading up this thread, made me feel like I will be a bit disappointed

edit: and i would also love to drive my car to Orlando, that is 230miles up north.
Actually I totally agree with you. BMW is the best driving machine, and more entertaining to drive than any other car that I have owned. I love driving, and find the BMW a perfect car going for a long vacation trip anytime.

What I'm saying is only that if I had to make that same trip over and over again (using NY to FL as an example), let's say weekly for two years (and flying is not an option), the game in my own experience quickly changes. After a year I would not feel the same euphoria driving it anymore. It is just too much poking for my attention all of the time saying: "DRIVE ME! FASTER, HARDER!". This is of course fun and all, but can also become taxing if too much too often. Especially when also trying to make a living on-top of having this much fun driving. See?

But since moving where I am now, I don't have to make these extremely long journeys anymore so frequently. Which is also why I decided to still go for the better "driving machine" (BMW) again, rather than for the undoubtedly better "transportation vehicle" (MB). This way I can continue to enjoy driving, rather than just transport me (and family) between places.

Anyone else has a similar experience having driven both BMW and MB? And how do you find your new F30 BMW 3 Series in this aspect?
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      05-31-2012, 09:57 PM   #57
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Thought the biggest difference between the two lay in throttle response and pull. MB pulled only after 0.3 seconds and, then, only from 30-70 mph. BMW kicked convincingly at all reasonable speeds and almost instantly. In other words, hp and torque and rapid turbo scroll up ruled the day.

On the steering front, most folks don't seem to distinguish steering weight from steering feel. Both cars respond to a light touch compared to E90, but the F30 possesses the nimbleness and clarity of a roadster even when it responds to finesse rather than muscle; the MB, in contrast, strives to emulate a flagship luxury sedan.
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      05-31-2012, 10:12 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oyezoyez View Post
On the steering front, most folks don't seem to distinguish steering weight from steering feel. Both cars respond to a light touch compared to E90, but the F30 possesses the nimbleness and clarity of a roadster even when it responds to finesse rather than muscle
Someone buy this man a beer! Well said. And agreed.

A lot of people seem to equate feel and weight as the same thing.
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      05-31-2012, 11:35 PM   #59
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Isn't Servotronic standard on the F30 BMW 328i and 335i, but not available even as an option on the E90 BMW 3 Series?
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      06-01-2012, 01:13 AM   #60
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A lot of people seem to equate feel and weight as the same thing.
Those folks should, when they rent a car again, select the Chevy Impala. It has neither.
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      06-01-2012, 01:44 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by liljestig View Post
Anyone else has a similar experience having driven both BMW and MB?
While not a comparison between these two vehicles, in the past I had owned a E60 5-series and a W211 E-class at the same time.

Having switched off driving both cars as daily drivers I learned that the BMW is a fast car that happens to be luxurious while the MB is a luxurious car that happens to be fast. The 3 and the C are essentially the same, it really comes down to which type of car you value more.
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      06-01-2012, 07:51 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by adamsclubs View Post
The C250 Sport base model is equipped with lowered sport suspension and performance tires, for fair comparison you should take a 328i sport line, making the price difference more than just 5%. The real world price difference is much greater.

For those not much into driving dynamics, the C250 IMO not only is a more comfortable car, but a better looking sporty sedan. For me to accept the F30 look, I will have to wait for the M package.

The C250 Sport looks right without any sport or appearance options.
First, you have to factor in the price/value of the free maint. when comparing price. MB charges around $1,700 for 4 years of service and it is not as inclusive as what BMW offers.

Second, after driving both the 328 and C250 Sport, I agree that the C250 does ride and handle better....to a point. It should as it has a more advanced suspension but the inability to completely turn of the stability control seriously cuts into the fun factor. Add to that the superior engine/transmission in the BMW and it wins the sporty/fun factor hands down.

Also, I wouldn't say the MB is more comfortable because I found the BMW seats to be much better and the interior much roomier.

Looks are subjective. They both look nice.
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      06-01-2012, 07:57 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adamsclubs View Post
The C250 Sport base model is equipped with lowered sport suspension and performance tires, for fair comparison you should take a 328i sport line, making the price difference more than just 5%. The real world price difference is much greater.

For those not much into driving dynamics, the C250 IMO not only is a more comfortable car, but a better looking sporty sedan. For me to accept the F30 look, I will have to wait for the M package.

The C250 Sport looks right without any sport or appearance options.
True, but the base 328i has a lot more power than the base C250 so it's hard to compare the two. Either way the 328 is more expensive for sure.
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      06-01-2012, 10:26 AM   #64
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The irony is, the C250 Sport looks more like a sport sedan, it even has drilled front disc brakes. It benefits from the lowered sport suspension and performance tires. But it's power delivery sucks.

The base F30 328i IMO does not look like a sport sedan, more an executive sedan as it is so defined in Europe anyway, and not the best looking one. But it clearly has a better powerplant. The all season RFTs hinder the performance of the good powerplant.
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      06-01-2012, 04:36 PM   #65
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May sales numbers are out. The 3 series sales had dropped from over 9k in April to 6k in May. The MB C sold over 6,600 in May, passing 3 by a good margin.

I was curious how many F30s were sold among the 9k+ in April. I have a feeling BMW needed to sweeten the deals on F30s if they want to continue to lead MB and Lexus.
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      06-01-2012, 05:51 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adamsclubs View Post
May sales numbers are out. The 3 series sales had dropped from over 9k in April to 6k in May. The MB C sold over 6,600 in May, passing 3 by a good margin.

I was curious how many F30s were sold among the 9k+ in April. I have a feeling BMW needed to sweeten the deals on F30s if they want to continue to lead MB and Lexus.
I would think that limited allocation spots for the BMW, people waiting on the Team USA event, and massive discounts on the MB are the basis behind those numbers. When I was looking at the MB they were offering thousands off.
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