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      08-29-2014, 12:43 PM   #1
Alphadan
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About to pull the trigger on 335i but with a small hesitation

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Hello to all BMW Enthusiasts (bimmers),

First of all thank you for your attention and your opinions are greatly appreciated.

Anyways, let me get to the point. I was debating between a 2014 335i or a 2014 Audi S4. Honestly, personally I prefer the latter. However, because my family wants to get rid of their E90 328i. The trade-in deal at BMW offers the best financial incentive for us.

I only test drove a 2014 S4. I didn't have the chance to try the 335i. I think I will go to the dealership this afternoon to check it out. But the problem with test driving in the dealership is, you can't really test it... I mean the sales person is sitting right next to you...what can you do?

I have few hesitations with the 335i, I hope you guys can address it.

1.) Why doesn't 335i have dual clutch? Audi S4 sits around the same price point, it offers a dual clutch 7 speed tranny. I know 335i's 8 speed auto is new tech but nonetheless it is still a torque converter, is it? What is your comment on this new 8-speed AT?
(OK, I know what you are going to say, why not manual? Well my family strongly opposes it and I get plenty traffics from home to work. Also, sometimes I need someone to drive my car to pick me up from places.)

2.) Does sport package/m-sport package improves the suspension of 335i? I saw plenty review videos on youtube and they all seem to point to new 3 series' soft and floaty suspension. I realized most of them did their test on luxury line instead of sport line. I wonder if the sport line makes any difference.

3.) Has daytime running LED light become a standard these days? With Xenon as an add-on option?

4.) How easy is it to install JB4 stage 1? I dont want to put on any extra exhaust pipe. I just want simplicity. Last time I check, the most basic JB4 option costs only ~$300. I thought it was too good to be true. I wonder is there any catch? I get like extra 60 hp, but will I suffer from other things?

By the way, I am looking at a 2014 335i RWD with M-sport and 19'' wheel, Tech pack,priced around $54K.
I was thinking to myself, I could get a 2011/2012 M3 with this price tag. So I don't know. I need your help.

Thank you.

Last edited by Alphadan; 08-29-2014 at 01:17 PM.
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      08-29-2014, 12:56 PM   #2
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I'll try my best to answer some of your questions...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alphadan View Post
Hello to all BMW Enthusiasts (bimmers),


1.) Why doesn't 335i have dual clutch? Audi S4 sits around the same price point, it offers a dual clutch 7 speed tranny. I know 335i's 8 speed auto is new tech but nonetheless it is still a torque converter, is it? What is your comment on this new 8-speed AT?
(OK, I know what you are going to say, why not manual? Well my family strongly opposes it and I get plenty traffics from home to work. Also, sometimes I need someone to drive my car to pick me up from places.)
No idea, but I've always found BMW's auto transmissions to be silky smooth.

Quote:
2.) Does sport package/m-sport package improves the suspension of 335i? I saw plenty review videos on youtube and they all seem to point to new 3 series' soft and floaty suspension. I realized most of them did their test on luxury line instead of sport line. I wonder if the sport line makes any difference.
The M-Sport package adds Sport+ as an Dynamic Driving Control option, which I believe is essentially Sport mode with traction control turned off. Sport is a slightly lower/stiffer ride.

Quote:
3.) Has daytime running LED light become a standard these days? With Xenon as an add-on option?
LEDs are an add-on available as part of the lighting package. $1,200 I believe.

Quote:
4.) How easy is it to install JB4 stage 1? I want to put on any extra exhaust pipe. I just want simplicity. Last time I check, the most basic JB4 option costs only ~$300. I thought it was too good to be true. I wonder is there any catch? I get like extra 60 hp, but will I suffer from other things?
I'm not sure about this.
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      08-29-2014, 01:09 PM   #3
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I can answer question #4.

The JB4 stage 1 (or BGS Stage 1 tune) is a very simple install. There are no ill effects from doing so, and this includes gas mileage. If you drive it normal, you'll get the same MPG. I remove mine prior to any dealer services, but many others don't worry about it. Absolutely the best bang-for-the-buck you can do.
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      08-29-2014, 01:42 PM   #4
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Why not wait until the LCI in a few months? Better engine choices, and at least a refreshed front facia!
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      08-29-2014, 01:45 PM   #5
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I went through this with the E90 - at the end of the day it's about how you feel driving the car.

Drive both, a pick the one you love, or else you'll pine away for the other.
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      08-29-2014, 01:59 PM   #6
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1) I think the ZF 8spd shifts just about as fast as the S4 DCT but the ZF tranny (yes it has a torque converter) is much smoother in day to day driving. Drive both back to back and I don't think the BMW ZF tranny will let you down. It's shifts under WOT are very crisp.

2) The Sport and MSport suspension is the way to go. I know the MSport RWD setup sits 10mm lower than the normal sport suspension. Couple that with DHP option and you can't loose.

3) In the US, the BMW halo DRLs are standard on the 335i models but an option on 320 and 328.
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      08-29-2014, 02:29 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Arrow
Why not wait until the LCI in a few months? Better engine choices, and at least a refreshed front facia!
I realize the LCI 2016 model won't be available for about 11 months, but does anyone know when they will reveal details about the model?
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      08-29-2014, 02:53 PM   #8
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It's hard to make a decision until you actually drive the car. I was all set to get a 328 until I drove the 335. I have a 14 335i sport and I love it. I had an E90 and and I loved that too. I have never noticed the car having a floaty or soft suspension. It is a great daily driver and its fun to wind it out when I have the chance to get on some twisty roads. The sport transmission is incredibly quick and responsive. But, I was not looking for an all out sports car. If I wanted that I would have bought a Cayman. The 335 with sport offers the best of both worlds for me. Great fun and better in the real world than my E90. Drive the car and then see what you think.
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      08-29-2014, 02:57 PM   #9
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335 is the way to go. 8AT is great, feels better than the S-tronic.
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      08-29-2014, 03:19 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alphadan View Post
I think I will go to the dealership this afternoon to check it out. But the problem with test driving in the dealership is, you can't really test it... I mean the sales person is sitting right next to you...what can you do?
Drive it like you stole it, that's what you can do. A good salesman won't care, they're not selling toyotas, after all.

As for the rest, as others have said, the 8AT is phenomenal (even better if you get the Sport Auto). But drive 'em both before making any decisions.

Regarding suspension, stick with RWD (no x-drive) and get the DHP with a Sport or M Sport. X-Drive does not include the stiffer springs that the sport and m sport has, and thus is not as tight and sits higher. DHP still helps with x-drive, but won't be as tight as a RWD with sport suspension and DHP.

Also, regarding the LED's, the LED corona rings with adaptive xenon headlights are standard on the 335, optional on the 328 (at least they were in 2013 when I got mine, but check the website..). Full LED's (entire headlight is LED instead of just the rings, and I believe the taillights are LED too) are what's an additional option on the 335. If you're just looking for the daytime running lights, 335 should have them without adding the lighting package.

Last edited by chrisny; 08-29-2014 at 03:27 PM.
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      08-29-2014, 03:51 PM   #11
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I looked at both and settled on the 335 RWD, M package MPPK and MPE. The S4 was a nice car.

Transmission - Transmision in BMW is very good. Audi transmision is no better. I drove both on the same day and the audi transmission was great...but not any better then the BMW. Not a big issue but the BMW is no cost but the Audi it is a $1500 option.

Handling/suspension - Audi has a great ride. Smooth yet still minimal body roll in the corners. Feels like a heavy car compared to the BMW. I found the BMW (M suspension) to be great. Stiff, minimal body roll and the car felt lighter. I heard the steering was so bad in the BMW but I found it fine. The Audi was really light and had no feedback. The Audi I drove had the option sport differential. I can't say I was able to take advantage of this but I have read several car test that say it is very good.

If they had been the same price I would have still taken the BMW. The audi is a great car. Nice engine, nice styling inside and out plus it drives well. The BMW just did more for me. Felt lighter and sportier to me. The audi was a few thousand dollars more so it wasn't a tough choice for me.

You need to drive both cars. I was suprised how they drove. Do not be influenced by what you have read! I found both cars great but they have distinct areas that each one does better. Even a moderate drive will help your decision. I know before I bought I took out several cars on LONG test drives. The salesman at Audi wasn't too happy with me but too bad. These are expensive cars so test drive it how you want.
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      08-29-2014, 05:04 PM   #12
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Just to add my $0.02, I grew up hating torque converter slush boxes. But the ZF8AT in the 335i feels anything but slushy. I'd say it shifts as crisply as a DSG box, but is way smoother at low speeds. I'd be happy with one if 6MT was no longer an option.
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      08-29-2014, 05:20 PM   #13
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The MSport LCI exterior/bumper shouldn't change but the regular 328i/335i bumpers will for sure.

How reliable is going to be the BMW B-series engine? I have no idea at this point. That's going to be the biggest change, i.e. the new engine. The 30 or so additional HPs too, is that important to you? For me, 300 HP is more than I will ever need from the N-series engine. In fact, I was happy with my previous 230 HP 328i as well.

I just bought my 335i M Sport and love the ride. My steering feels a little tighter/heavier after a week of driving. It could be related to breaking-in the tires and or just getting used to the car. I was so hard-wired with my E90 that going to the F30 felt really different. Now having driven the car for a week I'm really liking it. The steering is more refined, quick, accurate and gives reasonable feedback. The suspension has been slightly relaxed so you'll feel a little floaty when turning sharply. The relaxed suspension does help to make the ride much more comfortable and glide over minor road bumps. These road bumps were like explosions in my E90. Nevertheless, the F30 even with the relaxed suspension is really sporty and fun to drive. In fact, it has the best balance of comfort and sport at this point.

Good luck!
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      08-29-2014, 05:37 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alphadan View Post
1.) Why doesn't 335i have dual clutch? Audi S4 sits around the same price point, it offers a dual clutch 7 speed tranny. I know 335i's 8 speed auto is new tech but nonetheless it is still a torque converter, is it? What is your comment on this new 8-speed AT?
(OK, I know what you are going to say, why not manual? Well my family strongly opposes it and I get plenty traffics from home to work. Also, sometimes I need someone to drive my car to pick me up from places.)

2.) Does sport package/m-sport package improves the suspension of 335i? I saw plenty review videos on youtube and they all seem to point to new 3 series' soft and floaty suspension. I realized most of them did their test on luxury line instead of sport line. I wonder if the sport line makes any difference.
1.) The 8AT is an excellent transmission, and I very much doubt the lack of DCT will make the difference for you between the two cars.

2.) The M-sport suspension (virtually the same thing with both Sport and M-Sport line) is definitely worth it. I recommend M-Sport for the steering wheel, front bumper, and cheaper M-Performance brakes if you want them. I wish all that had been available when I ordered mine.

As for decision between that and an S4, I have no relevant experience, sorry.
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      08-29-2014, 09:26 PM   #15
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Drive both and buy what feels exciting. I personally would buy a different brand just for the experience of driving a new car since you already own a BMW.
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      08-30-2014, 07:59 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alphadan View Post

1.) Why doesn't 335i have dual clutch? Audi S4 sits around the same price point, it offers a dual clutch 7 speed tranny. I know 335i's 8 speed auto is new tech but nonetheless it is still a torque converter, is it? What is your comment on this new 8-speed AT?
(OK, I know what you are going to say, why not manual? Well my family strongly opposes it and I get plenty traffics from home to work. Also, sometimes I need someone to drive my car to pick me up from places.)

2.) Does sport package/m-sport package improves the suspension of 335i? I saw plenty review videos on youtube and they all seem to point to new 3 series' soft and floaty suspension. I realized most of them did their test on luxury line instead of sport line. I wonder if the sport line makes any difference.

3.) Has daytime running LED light become a standard these days? With Xenon as an add-on option?

4.) How easy is it to install JB4 stage 1? I dont want to put on any extra exhaust pipe. I just want simplicity. Last time I check, the most basic JB4 option costs only ~$300. I thought it was too good to be true. I wonder is there any catch? I get like extra 60 hp, but will I suffer from other things?

By the way, I am looking at a 2014 335i RWD with M-sport and 19'' wheel, Tech pack,priced around $54K.
I was thinking to myself, I could get a 2011/2012 M3 with this price tag. So I don't know. I need your help.

Thank you.

Question 0: Sales person next to you? What a joke. You've never "test driven" a car before? Floor it, stomp on the brakes, go around curves. It's a test drive. You need to know it fits your needs, and its comparison to the competitors.

If the sales person is being a pansy, go to another dealership. I was test driving an M3, and was on a rural road, and the salesman told me to floor it.

Question 1: Because they don't make one. M3 has one. Want double clutch, get an M3. If you look at the reviews of the Sport 8AT, some argue that it's faster than the 7 speed DC. You can try your luck in waiting for the LCI in 2015 to see if it will be an option with the 340i

Question 2: Yes, as long as it is a 335i and not a 335xi

Question 3: 335 has xenon as standard. LED corona rings are DRL

Question 4: Don't know. For a few hundred bucks, you get what you pay for. I'd review all that's said about the JB4 on the forums.


As for your M3 question, that's up to you. Do you want a brand new car with a warranty and a plethora of new tech, or something that someone else abused? You will be happier with the 335 at normal daily driving than you will the 2011 M3 due to the torque band. The M3 is quite bland until the HP kicks in at 4000 RPM, and then it becomes an exciting, roaring maniac.

Best of both words is the current M3/M4.

Good luck with your decision
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      08-30-2014, 08:26 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AudiA4 View Post
I realize the LCI 2016 model won't be available for about 11 months, but does anyone know when they will reveal details about the model?
Probably May 2015.
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      08-30-2014, 10:13 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamS
Quote:
Originally Posted by AudiA4 View Post
I realize the LCI 2016 model won't be available for about 11 months, but does anyone know when they will reveal details about the model?
Probably May 2015.
Hmmm...I would've guessed sooner than then, but who knows. That would be about the time you'd be able to order them, right? So model info would likely have been published earlier?
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      08-30-2014, 10:44 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meme View Post
Drive both and buy what feels exciting. I personally would buy a different brand just for the experience of driving a new car since you already own a BMW.
I extensively test drove the s4 and never had an emotional "feels good" response. I love my 335 (and previous 335) with no regrets.
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      08-30-2014, 11:11 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alphadan View Post
Hello to all BMW Enthusiasts (bimmers),

First of all thank you for your attention and your opinions are greatly appreciated.

Anyways, let me get to the point. I was debating between a 2014 335i or a 2014 Audi S4. Honestly, personally I prefer the latter. However, because my family wants to get rid of their E90 328i. The trade-in deal at BMW offers the best financial incentive for us.

I only test drove a 2014 S4. I didn't have the chance to try the 335i. I think I will go to the dealership this afternoon to check it out. But the problem with test driving in the dealership is, you can't really test it... I mean the sales person is sitting right next to you...what can you do?

I have few hesitations with the 335i, I hope you guys can address it.

1.) Why doesn't 335i have dual clutch? Audi S4 sits around the same price point, it offers a dual clutch 7 speed tranny. I know 335i's 8 speed auto is new tech but nonetheless it is still a torque converter, is it? What is your comment on this new 8-speed AT?
(OK, I know what you are going to say, why not manual? Well my family strongly opposes it and I get plenty traffics from home to work. Also, sometimes I need someone to drive my car to pick me up from places.)

2.) Does sport package/m-sport package improves the suspension of 335i? I saw plenty review videos on youtube and they all seem to point to new 3 series' soft and floaty suspension. I realized most of them did their test on luxury line instead of sport line. I wonder if the sport line makes any difference.

3.) Has daytime running LED light become a standard these days? With Xenon as an add-on option?

4.) How easy is it to install JB4 stage 1? I dont want to put on any extra exhaust pipe. I just want simplicity. Last time I check, the most basic JB4 option costs only ~$300. I thought it was too good to be true. I wonder is there any catch? I get like extra 60 hp, but will I suffer from other things?

By the way, I am looking at a 2014 335i RWD with M-sport and 19'' wheel, Tech pack,priced around $54K.
I was thinking to myself, I could get a 2011/2012 M3 with this price tag. So I don't know. I need your help.

Thank you.
1. One of my hesitations prior to getting the 4 was the lack of a dct. While I think the 8at is a very nice tranny, I personally hate it on the 335i. I think if paired with the 428 or a NA car (wife has a x3, I think its actually funner to drive than my car), the tranny would be okay. D mode is really boring and DS+ is jerky, espeically 1-2, and not much fun either.

A lot of members here will say the 8AT is as good as audis DCT. I've owned an audi DCT vehicle and can tell you its not even close. The DCT shifts extremely clean with very little power delivery interuption. When driven like a grandma, this 8at is pretty good, but in spirited driving, it leaves a lot to be desired.

What I really don't like is actually BMW's throttle control and traction control. Even at sport + and S shift mode, the car is very electronically controlled.

2. Yes Msport is actually pretty stiff. I'm on KW V2 and it may even be softer.

3. LED is the option, xenon standard with 35

4. I would get the normal JB4, not the stage 1. I had the stage 1, but switched over to the normal JB4. They have the electronic waste gate control now. You don't really gain 60 hp unless you are running lots of bolt on mods. You gain 60-80 tq, and maybe 30 hp. The JB4 is...ok. I would almost rather go for the MPPK. I may actually decide to do that and "downgrade" from the JB4. I just don't like the idea of running a piggyback.
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      08-31-2014, 02:04 AM   #21
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First of all, let me thank you for all the great responses. They certainly have addressed my hesitations.

I guess it's time to pull the trigger.
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      08-31-2014, 06:44 AM   #22
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Just FYI, when it comes to the actual market price (vs MSRP), the 335i is less expensive than the S4 by a significant margin. I had the same line of thinking as you until I priced out a 335i and S4 on USAA.
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