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      06-08-2012, 04:01 PM   #1
micknugget
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Paint Issue

Well, I was washing my car and saw some strange brown spots around the passenger side front and rear wheel wells. At first i thought it was just tar or something but when I tried to clean it off, the clear coat started to come off.

I took it to the dealer and the head detailer tried to clay it but said that it was either in or under the clear coat. I have to take it back for the body shop manager to look at it. Any idea what it could be? I attached a pic of the front as the rear doesn't show up very well.
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      06-08-2012, 04:41 PM   #2
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It's always hard to diagnose paint issues over the internet, but can you feel the defect? Is it higher or lower than the surrounding area? From the pic, it does look like a failure of the clear coat though, but again, it's very difficult to analyze this sort of thing from pics.

By the way, I assume we're talking about the lighter circle in the lower third of the picture, with all the scratches around it? The darker spots look like tire dressing slung off, try wiping the tire down after you apply product, or using a water based product like 303 and letting it sit for a few minutes before driving off.
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      06-08-2012, 09:52 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
It's always hard to diagnose paint issues over the internet, but can you feel the defect? Is it higher or lower than the surrounding area? From the pic, it does look like a failure of the clear coat though, but again, it's very difficult to analyze this sort of thing from pics.

By the way, I assume we're talking about the lighter circle in the lower third of the picture, with all the scratches around it? The darker spots look like tire dressing slung off, try wiping the tire down after you apply product, or using a water based product like 303 and letting it sit for a few minutes before driving off.
It's actually the darker spots which are raised. The lighter circle is where I originally tried to scrub the paint and the clear coat came off. The dealership tried a couple of different chemicals and a clay bar but could not get out the brown spots.
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      06-08-2012, 11:01 PM   #4
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As mentioned above, it's very hard to diagnose paint issues like this online. However, my guess would be that the paint and/or clear was affected by some kind of tire dressing, whether dealer- or owner-applied. It also could have been caused by a number of different road contaminants that hit the paint when it did not have sufficient protection.

If the spots don't feel raised, as mentioned, then the first thing I'd suggest is to take 91% IPA (rubbing alcohol) and a paint-safe microfiber and wipe down the area. This will remove most contaminants and give you a fresh surface to work with (you can also clay if there is any need to). Assuming you still have the spots, you will have to attempt polishing them out yourself or having a professional do so (and by no means should the body shop guys be considered polishing professionals!). Always start with the least aggressive and move towards the more aggressive steps as necessary. I happen to have all the stuff necessary (you may not), so I'd use my Flex XC3401 and probably start with a finishing polish like Menzerna 106FF on a white pad, and if that didn't work then I'd move up to an orange or yellow pad with Menzerna SIP or PG. Finishing with a milder polish would be necessary, of course, to be followed by a sealant or wax.

Good luck. I imagine some combination of polishing steps will work. If not, the only choice to get it back perfect will likely be a repaint.
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      07-16-2012, 12:55 PM   #5
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**Update**
So i take my car to the dealership and they look at the spots. They also find a few more. I left the car with them and they were able to get ride of SOME of them by sanding away some of the clearcoat (Yikes). Apparently the spots are in the clear. One fender still has the spots and BMW is offering to strip and repaint the fender and "blend" it with the rest of the car. They cannot say what the spots are or what caused them nor can they say that they won't reappear. I am NOT at all happy with this. I brought the issue to BMWs attention when the car had 1,000 miles on it (it only has 1,900 now) and I really don't want a new car with a repainted fender (and door and hood for "blending" purposes) and a bunch of clearcoat sanded away. Am I being unresonable? Any suggestions?
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      07-16-2012, 01:21 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by micknugget View Post
Am I being unresonable?
Yes, you are being unreasonable.

They are willing to satisfy your concerns and fix the issue. Paint matching from a reputable shop, especially on a vehicle with fairly new paint (<25,000 miles... in your case less than 2k..) is completely unnoticeable and I'm sure you will be satisfied with the results.

Suggestions.. Do not use any tire dressings.. Wax the vehicle 2-3 times over (once the new paint settles.. abt 30 days after)

I highly recommend zaino,

http://www.zainostore.com/

1x base coat of Z5 followed by a coat of Z2 and you're protected for 6 months (in Detroit). Reapply Z2 once every 6 mo thereafter.

If you aren't able/willing to detail the vehicle, pay someone else to do it. It goes a very long way in protecting your exterior, especially in a nasty winter area like Michigan.

Good luck!
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      07-16-2012, 01:26 PM   #7
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I'll take the other angle. You're not being unreasonable. A blended paint job is something that a $200 paint thickness gauge will pick up and many folks will be able to see even the best work with their naked eyes, probably including you.

I'd ask your dealer if they'd be willing to pay you for the diminished value, either with cash, or dealer credit. If your dealer is 100% sure this is a clear failure and not something that you might have caused, they should be more than willing to take care of you.

As a casual car detailer and someone who has bought a used car or two, I hate blended paint and will personally not buy a car with paint damage unless it's something really unique.
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      07-16-2012, 01:31 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
I'll take the other angle. You're not being unreasonable. A blended paint job is something that a $200 paint thickness gauge will pick up and many folks will be able to see even the best work with their naked eyes, probably including you.

I'd ask your dealer if they'd be willing to pay you for the diminished value, either with cash, or dealer credit. If your dealer is 100% sure this is a clear failure and not something that you might have caused, they should be more than willing to take care of you.

As a casual car detailer and someone who has bought a used car or two, I hate blended paint and will personally not buy a car with paint damage unless it's something really unique.
Seconded, take it back and get a new car from them, by taking action they have all ready admitted liability, so you are in the clear to press for a new motor.
Repaired paintwork is NEVER the same.
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      07-16-2012, 01:46 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by micknugget View Post
**Update**
So i take my car to the dealership and they look at the spots. They also find a few more. I left the car with them and they were able to get ride of SOME of them by sanding away some of the clearcoat (Yikes). Apparently the spots are in the clear. One fender still has the spots and BMW is offering to strip and repaint the fender and "blend" it with the rest of the car. They cannot say what the spots are or what caused them nor can they say that they won't reappear. I am NOT at all happy with this. I brought the issue to BMWs attention when the car had 1,000 miles on it (it only has 1,900 now) and I really don't want a new car with a repainted fender (and door and hood for "blending" purposes) and a bunch of clearcoat sanded away. Am I being unresonable? Any suggestions?
I don't think you're being unreasonable at all.I'd be mad. Even when I buy a brand new car I take the time to look it over very carefully. When I bought my M3 , I asked if I could hand wash it before I took ownership of it. They looked at me like I was crazy, but the manager agreed. If they've taken the time to wet sand the clear coat to try to get the spots out, then they are basically admitting there was a contaminant in the paint from the factory..My biggest problem comes with "blending" the paint. Even if the color matches up perfect the "orange peel " on the clear coat will be inconsistent . The only way to get it even is to have the whole car color sanded and polished so that everything is smooth. That's going to be a timely & expensive task. One that I doubt the dealership will go for. I've been custom painting cars for about 20yrs. If you have any question feel free to fire away. I'd be more than happy to help.Good luck
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      07-16-2012, 02:02 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
I'll take the other angle. You're not being unreasonable. A blended paint job is something that a $200 paint thickness gauge will pick up and many folks will be able to see even the best work with their naked eyes, probably including you.

I'd ask your dealer if they'd be willing to pay you for the diminished value, either with cash, or dealer credit. If your dealer is 100% sure this is a clear failure and not something that you might have caused, they should be more than willing to take care of you.

As a casual car detailer and someone who has bought a used car or two, I hate blended paint and will personally not buy a car with paint damage unless it's something really unique.
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      07-16-2012, 02:39 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbs

That is straight up outrageous.

This car is over a year old (13+ months)... His paint is not brand new anymore.

Reality check.
Didn't the F30 just come out in February, 5 months ago?
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      07-16-2012, 02:41 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbs View Post
That is straight up outrageous.

This car is over a year old (13+ months)... His paint is not brand new anymore.

Reality check.
It is? He joined in April, and the F30 only arrived here around then, right? So that's three months, not 13+. Further, the OP initially brought this to the dealers attention at 1k miles and is still under 2k. If the OP has a decent relationship with his dealer, a sizable credit or a swap for another car seem entirely in reason.

Sidebar, with the aforementioned issue about diagnosing paint damage over the interwebs, the pictures damage sure does look like sling off of either a tire dressing or possibly some chemical left in a parking lot. Now whether this happened on the OP's watch, was done by the dealer or even at the point of manufacture is impossible to say. The outcome is that the paint is fubared, and the solution offered is suboptimal. If it were my new car, I would not accept a respray without some sort of financial compensation or a chance to swap into a similar car in inventory.
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      07-16-2012, 02:41 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by gerbs View Post
Production began in February 2011.
When did delivery in the US begin?
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      07-16-2012, 02:43 PM   #14
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You're right, mis read the date. Fixed my post. That does change things a bit since the vehicle is so new.

I agree the issue blows. And yes, better pictures would be nice.

I think the dealer is doing their fair part in accepting, recognizing, and repairing the issue. If they repair it behind expectation, in other words, if it is not repaired to match the quality of a new vehicle, then yes absolutely I would escalate the issue or see what else they're willing to do for you.
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Last edited by gerbs; 07-16-2012 at 04:51 PM.
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      07-16-2012, 02:46 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbs View Post
It would appear he picked it up on April 30, 2011, based on this.
Is your computer set to the right date? From your linked post:
05-02-2012, 08:17 PM

I do not recall seeing any F30's in the US in calendar year 2011. Just so we're on the same page, today's date is July 16th, 2012, correct?

Gerbs, just for my curiosity, have you ever had a car repainted? Was it water based or oil based paint? Was it metallic or solid? In any instance you've had a car repainted, did you find it to be equal to the quality of factory paint, and just as importantly, unrecognizable in normal, outdoor lighting? I've seen some incredibly pricey, and incredibly cheap localized paint repairs and I've never seen one that I'd say was undetectable from a fair distance.
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      07-16-2012, 02:48 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbs

It would appear he picked it up on April 30, 2011, based on this.
That post you linked to was dated May 2, 2012. Something off with your settings maybe (if you see 4/30/2011 as the date of the post)?


I'm not aware of even dealer demos showing up in the US until February 2012...
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      07-16-2012, 02:58 PM   #17
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Stone chips IMO. I have them on a car with low miles on it.

If my car was not leased I would have but 3M clear material on the front and the rockers behind the wheels.
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      07-16-2012, 04:38 PM   #18
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Let me respond here:

1) The car was delivered to me May of this year so it's less than 3 months old.

2) I did use MacGuire's Tire Shine. I contacted them and they said that in no way it would it eat thru the clear and shouldn't even stain it. The car was clay barred and the brown spots were in/below the clear.

3) The car had a fresh coat of wax (or so the dealer says) which would have further protected the paint.

4) the dealership cannot say what caused it other than to say that it is not a stain on top of the paint and compromised the clear in several spots.
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      07-16-2012, 04:59 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by micknugget View Post
Let me respond here:

1) The car was delivered to me May of this year so it's less than 3 months old. I think Gerbs might own a DeLorean.

2) I did use MacGuire's Tire Shine. I contacted them and they said that in no way it would it eat thru the clear and shouldn't even stain it. The car was clay barred and the brown spots were in/below the clear. I will vouch that the Meguiars could have in no way done this.

3) The car had a fresh coat of wax (or so the dealer says) which would have further protected the paint. Doubtful that it had more than a spray wax from the dealer car wash, but this really shouldn't matter.

4) the dealership cannot say what caused it other than to say that it is not a stain on top of the paint and compromised the clear in several spots. This is your real answer, if the dealer feels it's in the actual color paint layer, than they should fix it.
I'd still try talking to them about some form of compensation for your diminished value, or see if they'd be willing to swap you for something they have in inventory, etc.
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      07-16-2012, 05:01 PM   #20
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Quote:
I think Gerbs might own a DeLorean.
I am dyslexic on the 3rd calendar Monday of each month. Sorry


I do own a DeLorean though,

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      07-21-2012, 05:13 PM   #21
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***additional update***

So the dealership had the car for a week. They were able to get out some of the spots (by wet sanding I am guessing) but not all. They contacted BMWNA and their solution was to put on free mud flaps that cover the spots/damage (actually doesn't cover entirely). They were also unable to fix the paint flaw on the front bumper but only made it slightly better. Even a guy at the dealership said that the paint job on the car had several "irregularities" and wasn't BMW's best work.

I am supposed to call back Monday and tell then what i think. I think the mud flaps look cheap and don't even fit the car that well. My friends looked at it and agree that the mud flaps look cheap. One friend said "Why didn't they just use some f$%king duct tape?"

They also roadforce balance the tires but the steering vibration still exists. I now also have an issue with the black trim that on the door. It has become discolored and spotty and won't clean up. I am simply telling me to order me a new car if they don't a pissed off ex-customer. I have worked with them and made 4 trips to the dealership on this already.
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      07-21-2012, 09:53 PM   #22
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I don't think you're being unreasonable.

I think some people on this board have some really low expections.
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