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      07-16-2012, 09:46 PM   #1
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Please, BMW, Show Some Enlightenment

Dear BMW,
When you introduced the 6 series Gran Coupe, you tried to market it as a coupe. I'm writing to tell you, nobody thinks it's a two door car and nobody who wants a two door car will buy a four door, regardless of what you call it. Please don't insult our intelligence further by introducing a F3X model having the word coupe in its name and give it four doors. I swear on my life, nobody is comparing the purchase of, say, an Aston DB9 or Vantage with a M6 Gran Coupe!! Similarly, nobody will compare an F3X gran coupe with Porsche Cayman or CTS-V coupe.

I know MB came out with the CLS, but I remain convinced that CLS is merely an acronym MB execs came up with when they named the thing. It is their inside joke regarding the fact that Consumers are Limitlessly Stupid if they really think this car is a coupe. But just because MB pursues a stupid marketing approach is no reason for you to do so.
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      07-16-2012, 09:55 PM   #2
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I don't think anyone (including BMW) is under any elusions about how many doors the gran coupe has, and I agree they're not comparing it to the cars you mentioned. They're using the word coupe because it has styling similar to the 6 series coupe. It's a niche car, but a very good looking one in my opinion.
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      07-16-2012, 10:17 PM   #3
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It is not a Coupe, it is a Gran Coupe, duh ..
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      07-16-2012, 10:17 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E36toF30 View Post
I don't think anyone (including BMW) is under any elusions about how many doors the gran coupe has, and I agree they're not comparing it to the cars you mentioned. They're using the word coupe because it has styling similar to the 6 series coupe. It's a niche car, but a very good looking one in my opinion.
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      07-16-2012, 10:22 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E36toF30 View Post
I don't think anyone (including BMW) is under any elusions about how many doors the gran coupe has, and I agree they're not comparing it to the cars you mentioned. They're using the word coupe because it has styling similar to the 6 series coupe. It's a niche car, but a very good looking one in my opinion.
It is a good looking car. Call a sedan. Styling doesn't make a car a coupe, two doors make a car a coupe. If you look at lists of what are considered beautiful cars, very few of them have four doors. Though the Gran Coupe may one day be considered among them, the MB CLS which seems to be the car that spawned this sedan-called-coupe trend isn't on a single list I could find, yet the Flying Spur, Quatroporte and Maybach are, and none of those cars are presented as coupes.

There is nothing wrong with building a good looking sedan and calling it a sedan, particularly since everyone thinks of it as a sedan anyway.
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      07-16-2012, 11:22 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony20009 View Post
It is a good looking car. Call a sedan. Styling doesn't make a car a coupe, two doors make a car a coupe. If you look at lists of what are considered beautiful cars, very few of them have four doors. Though the Gran Coupe may one day be considered among them, the MB CLS which seems to be the car that spawned this sedan-called-coupe trend isn't on a single list I could find, yet the Flying Spur, Quatroporte and Maybach are, and none of those cars are presented as coupes.

There is nothing wrong with building a good looking sedan and calling it a sedan, particularly since everyone thinks of it as a sedan anyway.
Flying spur is considered a good looking car?

Personal tastes aside, I agree with you-- coupes are 2doors. No matter what manufacturers say, the word itself implies two...
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      07-16-2012, 11:31 PM   #7
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Manufacturers (or rather marketers?) will have you believe a "coupe" refers more to the roofline than number of doors...

Dictionary.com disagrees:

coupe[ koop ]
noun
1. a closed, two-door car shorter than a sedan of the same model.

"gran coupe" was not found lol. If it were, I suspect it would say, "marketing ploy to sell four door sedans with poor rear headroom due to sloping roofline."

That said, the M6 gran coupe looks damn good. For the most part, so does the a7 (not in love with the droopy rear). Not to mention the panamera and CLS. It's a new market and they're not only joining the party, but maybe even taking over.
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      07-17-2012, 07:53 AM   #8
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Cars like the Gran Coupe, CLS and A7 are coupe styled sedans and this is nothing more than a new trend. Worry about marketing semantics will put you in a mental home well before your time.
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      07-17-2012, 08:26 AM   #9
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This is just a trend IMO that will probably fade away, just like creating a new segment with the GT models in BMW, it's not an SUV and it's not a touring ... etc

Also I believe the CLS is one of the most beautiful cars around today I would love to own one, can't say the same about the 6 Gran Coupe
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      07-17-2012, 08:51 AM   #10
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Haven't seen a M6 gran coupe, but the A7 and CLS are beautiful cars - yes, I like their rooflines, even if they are sedans to boot.

But the Panamera... dear God, what was Porsche thinking when they designed that frog-like monstrosity?!?
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      07-17-2012, 09:30 AM   #11
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The Audi A7 is a fastback or hatchback its not a sedan or even a coupe!
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      07-17-2012, 09:57 AM   #12
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Wink Food For Thoughts

Quote:
Originally Posted by tony20009 View Post
It is a good looking car. Call a sedan. Styling doesn't make a car a coupe, two doors make a car a coupe. If you look at lists of what are considered beautiful cars, very few of them have four doors. Though the Gran Coupe may one day be considered among them, the MB CLS which seems to be the car that spawned this sedan-called-coupe trend isn't on a single list I could find, yet the Flying Spur, Quatroporte and Maybach are, and none of those cars are presented as coupes.

There is nothing wrong with building a good looking sedan and calling it a sedan, particularly since everyone thinks of it as a sedan anyway.
Luxury is to be able to call an object by whatever names you want to call it, no matter if it already has a name...

Why settle for Mark Andrews when you can change your name to PeeDyDy ?!

it's all in the wow factor, ... the attention grabber...

from the great awesome styling of the car to it's "controversial-induced" name!



Bad to the bone ? Luxury even to it's core definition....

the 6 series 4-door is not a simple sedan like the 5 series...
it's a Gran Coupe

which one you prefer to have ??

A sedan ? or a Gran Coupe ??






That's what i thought....

This is much more than an exercise of marketing, it's psychology my friend!
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      07-17-2012, 10:21 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
Cars like the Gran Coupe, CLS and A7 are coupe styled sedans and this is nothing more than a new trend. Worry about marketing semantics will put you in a mental home well before your time.
i absolutely agree with you


Quote:
Originally Posted by CurlyFatAngry View Post
This is just a trend IMO that will probably fade away, just like creating a new segment with the GT models in BMW, it's not an SUV and it's not a touring ... etc

Also I believe the CLS is one of the most beautiful cars around today I would love to own one, can't say the same about the 6 Gran Coupe
I would have to disagree with you here.

1)
Although We both know BMW didn't great the 4-door coupe trend...,
but you cannot compare and apply marketing trend of the GT to the GranCoupe (GC).

The GT might not have met the success in the US it was thought to be,
but in China it's a different story.

Personally, i think both the GT and GC can coexist and are great new car body styles. I will go even as far as calling them being in the same niche market... but just different demographic (one for younger and the other for older generation of people)

The GT is not really the first of its kind... remember the Renault Avant-Time
now that was awkward !... but boy do i want one !
that's traveling in Gran Style, but i digress...

2)
The 4-dr Coupe trend, has been going and growing slowly since the first MB CLS, followed by the VW Passat CC, then of course the Audi A7 and A5 (euro market), and shown by BMW concept car in the last few years...

This is a very desirable trend, especially in the Jet-Set Trend setter crowd

Dare i also mention the Kia Optima with its coupe like roof line ?


Quote:
Originally Posted by SGScuba View Post
Haven't seen a M6 gran coupe, but the A7 and CLS are beautiful cars - yes, I like their rooflines, even if they are sedans to boot.

But the Panamera... dear God, what was Porsche thinking when they designed that frog-like monstrosity?!?
Like it or not, the sporty 4-dr coupe is here to be growing stronger
so get used to it...
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      07-17-2012, 10:24 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SGScuba View Post
Haven't seen a M6 gran coupe, but the A7 and CLS are beautiful cars - yes, I like their rooflines, even if they are sedans to boot.

But the Panamera... dear God, what was Porsche thinking when they designed that frog-like monstrosity?!?
I think someone had a "that dog's so ugly it's cute" moment.

I have to say, that I have yet to think a 3er sedan is a good looking a car, yet that as many modders on here have shown, it's not beyond hope. Now I don't think it's butt ugly either, and the F30 is better looking by far than its predecessors. That said, it's still not on my list of the ten (or twenty) most beautiful (late model) cars available. But the 3er would have to become uglier than a lot of things for its looks alone to stop me from buying it.

The 6 series gran coupe looks basically the same be it the regular one or the M6 version. There are pics of both in B-post. It is a pretty car, both inside and out. It just isn't a coupe.
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      07-17-2012, 10:47 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony20009 View Post
I think someone had a "that dog's so ugly it's cute" moment.
I think the same of the new 1er, the Panamera though is still a Porsche so if someone gave one to me i would not say no and i would not feel ashamed of driving it.
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      07-17-2012, 11:29 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrivenByE30 View Post
...the 6 series 4-door is not a simple sedan like the 5 series...it's a Gran Coupe

which one you prefer to have ??

A sedan ? or a Gran Coupe ??

That's what i thought....This is much more than an exercise of marketing, it's psychology my friend!
It's a sedan in exactly the same way a 3, 5 or 7 is a sedan. It has four doors. That it's swoopy looking just makes it a more attractive sedan (to some eyes, certainly mine). I might prefer it to BMW's other sedan offerings because it's better looking, not because they call it a gran coupe. (And whose dumb idea was it to give a German car a French name that most Americans can't correctly pronounce anyway?)

It's the marketing I take issue with, not the car or its looks. The marketing is insulting. Consider the following:

You might want to sell pillows, for example. You stuff them with eider duck down and market it as being an eider down pillow. That sounds as though I'm getting something special, despite the fact that it's still just duck feathers, and I would feel better having "eider down" pillows than I would having "duck down" pillows. But that doesn't really insult anyone's intelligence; we all know that eider ducks are still just ducks. It's not as though you are putting fish scales, or horse hair inside the pillow and trying to market it to me as though it's down pillow.

Similarly, a car shouldn't be called a coupe just because it has beautiful lines. I can look at the car and see it has beautiful lines and judge for myself whether I would like to own it, regardless of what they call it. I don't care if they call it an ass crack on wheels, I'll still say it looks good if it does.

But it's not savvy, vehicularlly aware consumers like you and me for whom I'm making this argument. If one's never seen it before, yet sees/hears the name, one expects to see a car with two doors. If what one wants is a two door car, one's likely to be ticked off upon seeing it has four doors. Wanting a four door car, one probably won't investigate it further, thinking a coupe has two doors.

Now you might think I'm being hypothetical with my example, but I'm not. My aged (76) uncle rang me to ask what car I recommended for him. (He's been driving E and S Class MBs for the past 35+ years.)

I said go check out the BMW gran coupe and his reply was, "Oh, no, I want a four door car." I gave him the 411 on the car and he maintained, "There's still something fishy going on with them calling a four door car a coupe. It takes gall to call a sedan a coupe when you can see isn't. I don't want it. If they'll lie about whether the car is a sedan or coupe, there's no telling what else they'll lie about. I'm not fool enough to get involved with people like that." That's what the man said to me.

Now I know if he bothered to look at the car, he'd instantly love it and he'd want, but for his distrust of BMW, to buy it on sight. And the only thing making him distrust BMW is the marketing. He knows I buy BMWs and that I am very happy with them. He simply doesn't trust companies that are less than candid/clear about their products.

So he'll buy something else instead, certainly not a BMW, simply because he doesn't trust them as a company at this point, whereas until I mentioned that sedan called a coupe, he was at least neutral on BMW. And, given the car industry's history of misrepresentation, obfuscation, and stone walling when they have really goofed, I can't legitimately blame him. (I didn't tell him about the CLS lest he think MB are up to the same shenanigans.)
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      07-17-2012, 11:36 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrivenByE30 View Post
...The GT might not have met the success in the US it was thought to be,
but in China it's a different story.
So here's your stock tip for the day:

If you are looking for companies that will go out of business or be purchased by another company, look at any medium to large company that is not already doing business in China, especially large ones.
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      07-18-2012, 01:24 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwickers View Post
I think the same of the new 1er, the Panamera though is still a Porsche so if someone gave one to me i would not say no and i would not feel ashamed of driving it.
Well sure, if someone gave me a Panamera, I wouldn't say no too.

But they want money for these things, real hard solid dosh. I'm not coughing up close to a million S$ of my own money (I don't know the exact cost of one of them in Singapore but it'll be upwards of half a million) for such a bug-ugly car! Would you?
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      07-18-2012, 02:49 AM   #19
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Maybe, i'd rather have a 911 but i the Panamera works a lot better as a family car. But then i'd also consider an M5.

Depends how much hypothetical money we are talking about Half a million USD gets you a Panamera Turbo S, the M5 is not in the same category. For that kind of money i'd rather get an Aston Rapide or Maserati. The FF has a similar awkward profile, but is more expensive so that's a car i think i'd never buy with my own money.

An entry or mid low level Panamera (around USD 190K) does not look bad to me, or an S/4S for the same price as an M5.

As for just considering beauty, sure a sport coupe looks way better. But it does not look bad unless you really just expect to see a 911.
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      07-18-2012, 05:53 PM   #20
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They should have called x6 a coupe, lol.
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      07-18-2012, 06:17 PM   #21
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I don't get the 6 sedan/"coupe", in terms of what segment is BMW pursuing with it.

The 6 coupe was/is to be a 5 series 2 door. So then, what the heck is a 6 sedan, other than a different bodied 5?

It would be like Audi creating an A5 grande coupe with 4 doors.
The A5 is a 2 door coupe of the A4. An A5 grande coupe with 4 doors would be a different bodied A4.
But, Audi didn't do that...yet.

At least the S7 is an alternate body A7.

The other aspect of these 4 door coupes is that they have a heightened level of performance above the actual sedan it uses for it's chassis.
The S7 is sportier tuned than the A7. The 6 gran coupe as well is supposed to be a higher performing sedan over the 5 series.

Way too many offerings imo.
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      07-18-2012, 06:23 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SGScuba View Post
Well sure, if someone gave me a Panamera, I wouldn't say no too.
I'd only take it so I could quickly trade it.
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