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      07-19-2012, 10:32 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by Sauber F1 View Post
No I'm not asking them to build a VW. I'm asking for another car like the 1M, one that doesn't get marked up by speculators. because there are only 840 available. I don't think it is asking too much for them to build a car based on what put them on the map in the fiirst place. People like you have no clue what BMW was all about. A Volkswagen is FWD for starters, and they won't get the steering and certain other things right, like BMW does. I am not a whiner, I'm a loyal customer who has had seven new 3 series over the last 20 years. The people that love the current 3 series soooooo much, most likely have never driven the earlier models, so they don't know what they are missing. The E30 M3 is widely regarded as one of the best cars ever. I'm sure all those people that love that car didn't realize that they could have saved them self a lot of money and just gone out and bought a GTI and modified the crap out of it
I too have owned several BMW's. E30, E46, E46 M3, now F30. I've also had a 2008 Acura TL, A GTI, a Jetta GLI, and STI.

The F30 thus far has been the best car I've owned.
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      07-19-2012, 10:37 AM   #46
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Want to know what "BMW is all about"? Just look at the cars, just look at the drivers.

The F30 is bigger, wider, longer, softer, more plush, feature-rich, and powered by a 4 cylinder engine. It's best selling configuration will be something called the 'Luxury' line.

The 3 Series driver is an average of 47 years old, is 50% female, and 73% of them are leasing.

Get the picture? BMW sells 350,000 of these cars a year to that customer, to that demographic. We don't want harsh suspensions, tiny cabins, and noisy engines because we live in upscale communities that don't look too kindly to balding middle-managers who need to get their rocks off by driving like a maniac on local streets where our children play. There are other car companies that can satisfy the desire to act like a high school boy, Honda and VW coming to mind. Are other car companies that can help with the midlife crisis like Porsche or Chevrolet. Stop with the endless whining about what the 3 Series used to be. What it is now, today, is what the 5 Series used to be.

The 1M? What are you, 12? This 'performance enthusiast' myth has to stop, it really does. We're three generations removed from the E36. Time to grow up and move on. All of you.

BJ
Stop making so much sense!
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      07-19-2012, 10:41 AM   #47
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Last time I checked I'm not 50% female.

Cheers
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      07-19-2012, 11:00 AM   #48
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BMW just needs to drop a 1 series sedan.

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      07-19-2012, 11:04 AM   #49
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BMW just needs to drop a 1 series sedan.
=========

I think they will or at the very least almost have to. Audi is planning a sedan variant of the A3 so for competition's sake BMW will need to offer a sedan varian of the 1 Series. You can't be 'all things for all people' if your smallest car is only a coupe.
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      07-19-2012, 11:08 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thatsagoodpoint View Post
BMW just needs to drop a 1 series sedan.
=========

I think they will or at the very least almost have to. Audi is planning a sedan variant of the A3 so for competition's sake BMW will need to offer a sedan varian of the 1 Series. You can't be 'all things for all people' if your smallest car is only a coupe.
True but I would probably still prefer an F30 sedan sport line, the new 3 just looks awesome!
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      07-19-2012, 11:11 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by thatsagoodpoint View Post
BMW just needs to drop a 1 series sedan.
=========

I think they will or at the very least almost have to. Audi is planning a sedan variant of the A3 so for competition's sake BMW will need to offer a sedan varian of the 1 Series. You can't be 'all things for all people' if your smallest car is only a coupe.
I'm pretty sure they will. It hasn't escaped them that the cars are getting bigger with every model. That was actually my original draw to the F30; a quicker, more efficient, more comfortable E39 -- better in every way.. except, well, I guess, price. For a DD, it's too big (unless you have to shuttle a bunch of kids around or something), but for a cruiser, it's perfect.

Most people around here have the brains to understand that BMW serves a number of markets. The F30 will likely be the most successful 3-series ever, but that doesn't mean there isn't a growing niche for a smaller car, as all models get larger. Some people will cross-shop between models, some will only consider one. Those who are stuck on a particular model have it wrong -- it's not BMW's job to make the car you want, it's your job to choose the car that suits your needs. Sadly, at the moment, there's no 4 (5?)-door 1 series, so those looking for a small sedan have to look elsewhere.
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      07-19-2012, 11:12 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by thatsagoodpoint View Post
BMW just needs to drop a 1 series sedan.
=========

I think they will or at the very least almost have to. Audi is planning a sedan variant of the A3 so for competition's sake BMW will need to offer a sedan varian of the 1 Series. You can't be 'all things for all people' if your smallest car is only a coupe.
If Audi drops the A3 sedan and MB the CLA then BMW for sure will drop a 1er sedan. The German luxury brands follow the motto, "monkey sees, monkey does."
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      07-19-2012, 11:14 AM   #53
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True but I would probably still prefer an F30 sedan sport line, the new 3 just looks awesome!
==========

I agree. I'm really not that big a fan of the F20 face so when the time comes to move into a new car (and it's coming soon) I'll stick with a 335i xDrive.
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      07-19-2012, 11:20 AM   #54
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I'm pretty sure they will. It hasn't escaped them that the cars are getting bigger with every model. That was actually my original draw to the F30; a quicker, more efficient, more comfortable E39 -- better in every way.. except, well, I guess, price. For a DD, it's too big (unless you have to shuttle a bunch of kids around or something), but for a cruiser, it's perfect.

Most people around here have the brains to understand that BMW serves a number of markets. The F30 will likely be the most successful 3-series ever, but that doesn't mean there isn't a growing niche for a smaller car, as all models get larger. Some people will cross-shop between models, some will only consider one. Those who are stuck on a particular model have it wrong -- it's not BMW's job to make the car you want, it's your job to choose the car that suits your needs. Sadly, at the moment, there's no 4 (5?)-door 1 series, so those looking for a small sedan have to look elsewhere.
=========

I agree. The F30 is a great looking car and it's extremely functional. I wouldn't say it's too big for a DD but that's a personal taste. But again, as a niche, a 1 Sedan would be a good seller and the buyer who feels the 3 is just too big a 1 sedan would fit nicely into their buying needs.

And yeah, BMW isn't stupid, the time for a 1 sedan was not 2006 when you could still buy a CPO E46 off a lot but now that E90s are being phased out. Now is the time to give the buyer who wants the smaller sedan that option or run the risk of losing that buyer to Audi or MB.
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      07-19-2012, 03:13 PM   #55
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I think some people don't realize that there are companies that cater to their needs. Perhaps they should give Porsche a try?
Porsche is a joke for value. If you've got money to burn, they're great. But I can't justify spending $350 just so the logo on the wheels is in color instead of black & white. Porsche upcharges for EVERYTHING.
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      07-19-2012, 08:02 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by bananachipz View Post
I too have owned several BMW's. E30, E46, E46 M3, now F30. I've also had a 2008 Acura TL, A GTI, a Jetta GLI, and STI.

The F30 thus far has been the best car I've owned.
That's good to hear.
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      07-19-2012, 08:28 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Sauber F1 View Post
Guess what? I'm turning 47 next month, so I fit the mold. Please spare me the midlife crisis BS and stop suggesting that I would be speeding in school zones, driving around with high school kids while texting, or that I'm 12 because I'd like a car like the 1M. You don't know me and those insults are uncalled for.

It's obvious that people like you mostly care about the image BMW represents. God forbid you drive something that's fun in your upscale neighborhood and your manager thinks you are unprofessional. Grow up, don't grow old! I lived in the Silicon Valley (Los Gatos to be exact) for 17 years, I get it!

Some of us like to still race their cars ON A TRACK from time to time, and by doing so you find out that the current 3 series has gotten porky. I don't want a Corvette or a Porsche, because I do need a back seat occasionally, that is about 5% of the times, when I have one of my kids with me. For those occasions I don't need all that leg room, I just need a adequate back seat. I'm sure I'm not the only one with that need. Most of us have another car, usually and SUV that does just fine for that, or do you take your 3 series to go skiing also?
Here's the plan:

1. Buy a used E36 as a weekend track car.

2. Leave the F30 people alone as we are very happy with our new cars.

3. Take this conversation to a subforum in which it is welcomed.

The F30 is a quiet family sedan. Can we please have a quiet place to discuss it without the endless complaining and whining about how the car doesn't live up to the expectation of people who never had the intention of buying it anyway? It's a reasonable request. Please consider it.

BJ
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      07-19-2012, 08:36 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by DrivenByE30 View Post

Wow... your text is a soul shaker... i dont know why i bought the 3 series ??
for the wrong reason it would seem, or maybe my mentality hasn't caught up yet with the reality.

sooner or later, i will have to readjust my point of view..
and it looks like i might have to do it now before my GF gets mad too.

I am standing right in the middle of that demography... steering away from that crowd and leaning toward your PTA group.
You're an F30 owner so I apologize if my tone offended you as you weren't the target.

The old saying "adapt or die" applies here. The most loyal 3 Series owners, those who had an E46 and renewed their leases time and time again through the E9X and now the F30 are the target audience. And that 29 year old newlywed back in 1998 is now 45 with a big job and a couple of kids and he simply doesn't care about "spirited" driving anymore. He wants more space and creature comforts.

BMW is merely catering to their most loyal owners by aging the 3 Series as gracefully as their drivers. We're bigger, wider, softer, love tech, demand convenience, want to be pampered. This is where the F30 delivers.

For those who pine away for the light/agile days of the older 3 Series, sorry, those days are over. But there are tons of E36's out there and you're not 29 anymore and you have the coin- go get that M3 of your dreams and stop whining.

BJ
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      07-19-2012, 09:12 PM   #59
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P.S. I would take a Gray e46 M3 in a heart beat.
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      07-19-2012, 09:52 PM   #60
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That's what the new 1-series/2-series coupe and gran coupe are going to be. E46-sized cars with the current lineup of engines:

228i = 240hp
235i = 300hp
M235i = 320hp
M2 = Helluva lot
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      07-19-2012, 10:32 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boltjames View Post
Here's the plan:

1. Buy a used E36 as a weekend track car.

2. Leave the F30 people alone as we are very happy with our new cars.

3. Take this conversation to a subforum in which it is welcomed.

The F30 is a quiet family sedan. Can we please have a quiet place to discuss it without the endless complaining and whining about how the car doesn't live up to the expectation of people who never had the intention of buying it anyway? It's a reasonable request. Please consider it.

BJ

I'm amazed how you get offended by me starting a discussion on a discussion forum.....sorry my bad! Oh, here's an idea, ignore the posts you are not interested in.

Seriously, I respect your opinion, but the way you spout ridiculous stuff right from the start, makes it hard to take you serious later.

BTW, the car you are describing in several of your replies is a Mercedes Benz, Lexus, Infinity or possibly an Audi. I was under the impression that BMW still wanted to make the ultimate driving machine, but I guess time has passed me by and they are catering to the status quo .......enjoy.

Last edited by norMcal; 07-19-2012 at 10:33 PM. Reason: spelling
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      07-19-2012, 11:11 PM   #62
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Seems to me the way it usually works is that the 'entry level' car (used to be the 3 series, could be the 1 series now, I suppose) caters to the younger crowd.. then those who demand more space and butt massagers as they get older 'upgrade' to the larger, more luxurious models, if that's what they want.

If the 3 series is supposed to age with its 'original' owners from the 90s (I'm not sure where this leaves E30 buyers from the 80s), where does that leave the 7-series target market from 20 years ago? In the grave?
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      07-19-2012, 11:25 PM   #63
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Well the f30 is still more fun than the f10 isn't it ? Some are glad the f30 is now big enough to be a well rounded family hauler while still being a fun BMW.

Second, you can partly blame the Chinese market if that makes you feel better, as they love large cars which forced BMW to put a larger car in this segment.
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      07-19-2012, 11:34 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Sauber F1 View Post
I understand that some like the every increasing size, but they do make a 5 series for that purpose......just saying.
+10000000000

What I don't get is why people think they need 10 extra inches of room to be comfortable.

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I think BMW realizes they have more customers who want to have a usable back seat and room in the trunk for golf clubs than customers who want to buy something more like a Porsche.
Oh come on. All of my friends are about 6'1 and they fit fine in my E46. I mean sure they bitch a little, but they would be comfortable in an E90. So I don't see why the wheelbase needed to be lengthened again.


All I know is that BMW really NEEDS a 2 series Sedan. And they need it ASAP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by boltjames View Post
You're an F30 owner so I apologize if my tone offended you as you weren't the target.

The old saying "adapt or die" applies here. The most loyal 3 Series owners, those who had an E46 and renewed their leases time and time again through the E9X and now the F30 are the target audience. And that 29 year old newlywed back in 1998 is now 45 with a big job and a couple of kids and he simply doesn't care about "spirited" driving anymore. He wants more space and creature comforts.

BMW is merely catering to their most loyal owners by aging the 3 Series as gracefully as their drivers. We're bigger, wider, softer, love tech, demand convenience, want to be pampered. This is where the F30 delivers.

For those who pine away for the light/agile days of the older 3 Series, sorry, those days are over. But there are tons of E36's out there and you're not 29 anymore and you have the coin- go get that M3 of your dreams and stop whining.

BJ
Sounds like you should pony up for a 528i. You know a car that was meant to be luxurious, and leave the 3-Series to be what it always has been. A SPORT SEDAN.

Last edited by bimmerjph; 07-19-2012 at 11:55 PM.
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      07-20-2012, 12:10 AM   #65
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+10000000000

Oh come on. All of my friends are about 6'1 and they fit fine in my E46. I mean sure they bitch a little, but they would be comfortable in an E90. So I don't see why the wheelbase needed to be lengthened again.
Interestingly enough my friends have more varying heights.

Car seats have gotten bigger over the years due to safety regulations, among other things. My wife's e90 can only hold our car seat in the middle (not exactly convenient for picking up an infant) because there isn't enough room behind the driver/passenger seat unless you move them up to an uncomfortable position. The f30 does not have that problem.

I'm pretty confident that BMW thinks more about families and children than friends when designing the rear seats.

The f30 is still 3.7 inches shorter than an A4/S4. Seems like many people find the S4 to be the main competitor for the 335 and the f30 is smaller.
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      07-20-2012, 12:22 AM   #66
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Interestingly enough my friends have more varying heights.

Car seats have gotten bigger over the years due to safety regulations, among other things. My wife's e90 can only hold our car seat in the middle (not exactly convenient for picking up an infant) because there isn't enough room behind the driver/passenger seat unless you move them up to an uncomfortable position. The f30 does not have that problem.
Thats actually a good point and it brings up something else I have been thinking about. Is there anyway to make the seats thinner but still be comfortable and meet all regulations. Then you could shorten the wheelbase, and everyone would be happy.

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