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      07-20-2012, 12:56 AM   #67
batislav
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Thats actually a good point and it brings up something else I have been thinking about. Is there anyway to make the seats thinner but still be comfortable and meet all regulations. Then you could shorten the wheelbase, and everyone would be happy.
It would be a good idea. Space saving is big so someone might already be looking into it.
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      07-20-2012, 01:03 AM   #68
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I never knew there were so many non driving enthusiasts on this forum.

Does anyone know where the BMW driving enthusiasts forum is located?
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      07-20-2012, 01:38 AM   #69
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I never knew there were so many non driving enthusiasts on this forum.

Does anyone know where the BMW driving enthusiasts forum is located?
ROFLMAO
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      07-20-2012, 06:56 AM   #70
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I never knew there were so many non driving enthusiasts on this forum.

Does anyone know where the BMW driving enthusiasts forum is located?
Up at the top of the page is a bar. Click any of these: 1, M3, M5, Z4

You'll find all the hand-me-down high school boys and balding midlife crisis men there. The 3 is no longer the car for them. BMW has moved on; so now must you.

BJ
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      07-20-2012, 07:04 AM   #71
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Sounds like you should pony up for a 528i. You know a car that was meant to be luxurious, and leave the 3-Series to be what it always has been. A SPORT SEDAN.
The 5 Series is now too big, same size as the old 7 Series. The wife has a minivan for that kind of hauling. It's interior is bland compared to the F30 too.

The 3 is now the perfect size, what the old 5 used to be, and it's filled with all the creature comforts of the 7. Very luxurious, nice soft suspension, the very opposite of a sport sedan.

BJ
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      07-20-2012, 07:36 AM   #72
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Up at the top of the page is a bar. Click any of these: 1, M3, M5, Z4

You'll find all the hand-me-down high school boys and balding midlife crisis men there. The 3 is no longer the car for them. BMW has moved on; so now must you.

BJ


It's friday, friday.....

Cheers
Robin
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      07-20-2012, 09:38 AM   #73
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For you people that support BMW increasing the size every year, where do you draw the line? Just curious. When the car is the size of a Hummer, do you stop and say to yourself maybe now the car is too big?
Isn't weight the most important factor as long as wheelbase is not too long? An F30 is very slightly heavier than the E90 and 4" longer. It's not like it's a huge car by any means. For those saying it's like a 5 series, it's not. It's 400 pounds lighter, 9" shorter and 2.0" narrower at the centerline of the rear tires.
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      07-20-2012, 09:49 AM   #74
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Isn't weight the most important factor as long as wheelbase is not too long? An F30 is very slightly heavier than the E90 and 4" longer. It's not like it's a huge car by any means. For those saying it's like a 5 series, it's not. It's 400 pounds lighter, 9" shorter and 2.0" narrower at the centerline of the rear tires.
It is a lot like an E39, perhaps not an F10, but the 5er is a moving target too. I'm cool with the F30 being what it is, but really wish BMW would add something smaller and more spartan back to the line up, not all of us care about mapping every Nordstroms, HUD or 14 way power seats. Some of us just want a simple, agile, rwd sedan, something like an E36 M3 sedan, just modernized.
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      07-20-2012, 10:04 AM   #75
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Buy a $10,000 E36 M3 and put $15,000 into it. You will have the car you want for $25,000 but with this amazing equipment:
  1. Close to best suspension that is spec'd just for you
  2. A modded or rebuilt engine that easily puts down 240 HP to the wheels with a few bolt -ons
  3. New wheels and tires of your choosing
  4. Arguably, one of the best interiors BMW made
  5. All refreshed bushings and suspension bits
  6. Refreshed brakes with SS lines that, although aren't super sexy, are incredibly good
  7. A car with almost legendary longevity
  8. Most importantly, a car that will far outrun a 328 on a road course or on a mountain road

I went from a 335 to this car and I can't tell you how god it is. Mine is track-specific but I could have easily made it a street performance daily driver.
Sounds like a winner to me
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      07-20-2012, 10:13 AM   #76
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Buy a $10,000 E36 M3 and put $15,000 into it. You will have the car you want for $25,000 but with this amazing equipment:
  1. Close to best suspension that is spec'd just for you
  2. A modded or rebuilt engine that easily puts down 240 HP to the wheels with a few bolt -ons
  3. New wheels and tires of your choosing
  4. Arguably, one of the best interiors BMW made
  5. All refreshed bushings and suspension bits
  6. Refreshed brakes with SS lines that, although aren't super sexy, are incredibly good
  7. A car with almost legendary longevity
  8. Most importantly, a car that will far outrun a 328 on a road course or on a mountain road

I went from a 335 to this car and I can't tell you how god it is. Mine is track-specific but I could have easily made it a street performance daily driver.
Sounds like a winner to me
I sold my E36/8 M Coupe recently because I'm just not that interested in dealing with an older car. If I were going to get an old car I'd prefer a late 60's 911, Alfa GTV or 3.0 CS. But I understand your move, and would certainly prefer an E36 M3 to a 335i too.
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      07-20-2012, 10:46 AM   #77
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I sold my E36/8 M Coupe recently
Great decision. That is one ugly car.

BJ
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      07-20-2012, 10:54 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by jbass524 View Post
Buy a $10,000 E36 M3 and put $15,000 into it. You will have the car you want for $25,000 but with this amazing equipment:
  1. Close to best suspension that is spec'd just for you
  2. A modded or rebuilt engine that easily puts down 240 HP to the wheels with a few bolt -ons
  3. New wheels and tires of your choosing
  4. Arguably, one of the best interiors BMW made
  5. All refreshed bushings and suspension bits
  6. Refreshed brakes with SS lines that, although aren't super sexy, are incredibly good
  7. A car with almost legendary longevity
  8. Most importantly, a car that will far outrun a 328 on a road course or on a mountain road

I went from a 335 to this car and I can't tell you how god it is. Mine is track-specific but I could have easily made it a street performance daily driver.
Sounds like a winner to me
Exactly.

There are like, what, 200 cars between $20,000 and $50,000 that people can buy. That's the point of auto ownership- there are so many cars to choose from, you can find whatever you want at any time.

Get a piece of paper. Write down the weight, length, height, width, and color of the car you want. Keep going. Write down the horsepower, torque, gas mileage, wheel size, you name it. You'll be able to get exactly what you want, hundreds of new and used cars to choose from.

The F30 is not everything to everybody nor is it what it was in 1985. There are dozens of other car brands and models out there that will be exactly what you want. Go find it. Leave the F30 alone.

BJ
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      07-20-2012, 11:03 AM   #79
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...The 3 is no longer the car for them. BMW has moved on; so now must you.
Thanks, apparently BMW didn't get your memo and still refers to all their cars as "The Ultimate Driving Machine." There's no asterisk saying it only pertains to certain models.

BTW, thanks for proving stereotypes come true. A BMW convertible driver who's not a driving enthusiast? Whoa, that's a shocker.
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      07-20-2012, 11:12 AM   #80
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Exactly.

There are like, what, 200 cars between $20,000 and $50,000 that people can buy. That's the point of auto ownership- there are so many cars to choose from, you can find whatever you want at any time.

Get a piece of paper. Write down the weight, length, height, width, and color of the car you want. Keep going. Write down the horsepower, torque, gas mileage, wheel size, you name it. You'll be able to get exactly what you want, hundreds of new and used cars to choose from.

The F30 is not everything to everybody nor is it what it was in 1985. There are dozens of other car brands and models out there that will be exactly what you want. Go find it. Leave the F30 alone.

BJ
Okay, here's what I want, a rwd sedan with a manual that's under 3,200 pounds and has at least two airbags and ABS. Whatcha got, smarty pants?

Off the top of my head, the only thing that might even come close is the first IS250. Not exactly a lot of choices, and I'm still not even convinced that actually fits my rather simple parameter.
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      07-20-2012, 11:19 AM   #81
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Thanks, apparently BMW didn't get your memo and still refers to all their cars as "The Ultimate Driving Machine." There's no asterisk saying it only pertains to certain models.

BTW, thanks for proving stereotypes come true. A BMW convertible driver who's not a driving enthusiast? Whoa, that's a shocker.
"The Ultimate Driving Machine" = a clever marketing tagline to make a soft luxury car appear sporty.

"Driving Enthusiast" = a clever merchandising tagline to sell performance auto parts to gullible children.

"Stereotype" = the true audience for BMW products, a 47 year old balding executive with two kids, a house in a nice neighborhood, and a status-symbol car to keep up with the Joneses.

Please awaken from the coma that BMW has put you in since 1985. There is no Santa Claus, there is no Tooth Fairy, Cheerios does not reduce cholesterol, Twizzlers are not a fat-free snack, the 3 Series is not a lightweight sports car.

BJ
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      07-20-2012, 11:24 AM   #82
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Okay, here's what I want, a rwd sedan with a manual that's under 3,200 pounds and has at least two airbags and ABS. Whatcha got, smarty pants?
How about your beloved E36? The E46? Go get a '92 M3. With a $50,000 budget, you can mod the drivetrain and suspension of your dreams with the weight and safety features of your dreams quite easily.

Your wife is a 40 year old Caucasian with blonde hair and green eyes but you keep wishing she was a 20 year old Asian with black hair and brown eyes. The fault isn't with your wife. The fault is with you. You can't make your wife become something she's not. Go find another wife. Plenty to choose from. Lots of other cars out there both old and new that can come a lot closer to your parameters than the 2013 BMW 3 Series.

BJ
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      07-20-2012, 11:25 AM   #83
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Great decision. That is one ugly car.

BJ


Funny, coming from an E93 driver.
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      07-20-2012, 11:26 AM   #84
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How about your beloved E36? The E46? Go get a '92 M3. With a $50,000 budget, you can mod the drivetrain and suspension of your dreams with the weight and safety features of your dreams quite easily.

Your wife is a 40 year old Caucasian with blonde hair and green eyes but you keep wishing she was a 20 year old Asian with black hair and brown eyes. The fault isn't with your wife. The fault is with you. You can't make your wife become something she's not. Go find another wife. Plenty to choose from. Lots of other cars out there both old and new that can come a lot closer to your parameters than the 2013 BMW 3 Series.

BJ
Wrong on all counts, except that the F30 doesn't fit, but good try.
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      07-20-2012, 11:27 AM   #85
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Funny, coming from an E93 driver.
That's gone now (need to change the sig, sorry).

I ditched the E93 for an E90 M-Sport three years ago and hate almost every minute of it. The suspension, the handling, the bland interior, yuck.

Can't wait for my F30 to get on a damn boat already, get here to the States.

BJ
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      07-20-2012, 11:50 AM   #86
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That's gone now (need to change the sig, sorry).

I ditched the E93 for an E90 M-Sport three years ago and hate almost every minute of it. The suspension, the handling, the bland interior, yuck.

Can't wait for my F30 to get on a damn boat already, get here to the States.

BJ
Again, I'm not arguing that the F30 isn't nicer than the E90 in many ways, interior design is certainly much better. The suspension of many recent BMW's has been rather poor, largely due to RFT's, which have continued to improve.

The F30 is actually quite impressive in that it got bigger, more comfortable, has more features and still weighs roughly the same as the E90. Nothing not to like there.

However the EPS and some odd option grouping also took away a little of the sportiness. But that's a small quibble.

I'd suspect that many of us in this thread interesting in something like a 1er sedan weren't folks that cared for the E90 either. I personally didn't even like the E46, I thought it was an overstyled pastiche of all things BMW and too cluttered. But dynamically, it was pretty good.
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      07-20-2012, 11:57 AM   #87
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Again, I'm not arguing that the F30 isn't nicer than the E90 in many ways, interior design is certainly much better. The suspension of many recent BMW's has been rather poor, largely due to RFT's, which have continued to improve.

The F30 is actually quite impressive in that it got bigger, more comfortable, has more features and still weighs roughly the same as the E90. Nothing not to like there.

However the EPS and some odd option grouping also took away a little of the sportiness. But that's a small quibble.

I'd suspect that many of us in this thread interesting in something like a 1er sedan weren't folks that cared for the E90 either. I personally didn't even like the E46, I thought it was an overstyled pastiche of all things BMW and too cluttered. But dynamically, it was pretty good.
Good post, I agree with what you say.

My contention is that this is the F30 subforum and not the place to discuss how it disappoints those who aren't its intended audience and who have no intention of purchasing one.

"Wake up and build the car we want!" Yup, that's exactly what they did. The customer that the F30 is designed to please is quite satisfied.

BJ
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      07-20-2012, 12:11 PM   #88
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My contention is that this is the F30 subforum and not the place to discuss how it disappoints those who aren't its intended audience and who have no intention of purchasing one.
BJ
Thanks, I think it's fine here as it's where a lot of traffic for this general market of car ends up. This sort of thread has made the rounds in the F20 forum too, and I'd gladly accept an F20/F21 but know BMW USA wouldn't allow such a thing and there just isn't much traffic on this site in that forum as we're largely US centric and there's no F2x version available in the US yet.

Perhaps the General BMW forum would be a better fit (in fact I started a fairly long thread about just this over there). But it does remain that since the E21, the 3er has been the smallest, sportiest BMW sedan and coupe, and I think this discussion just confirms that a lot of us are frustrated by the every growing product that hasn't really been back filled by BMW.

I do think the market is ripe for a good, low content, yet premium rwd sedan in the coming years. BMW seems to have the chassis available for such a thing, but the next IS and Audi A3 sedan (albeit with Haldex or fwd) are likely to grab a lot of our attention before the 1er sedan materializes.
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