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      07-20-2012, 04:26 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason View Post
UPDATE: So sorry folks, we don't mean to cry wolf, but upon closer inspection we believe that this prototype is actually the 3 Series GT.

With some of its rear camouflage removed, it revealed a sleeker hind roofline and rear, which gave it the appearance of a fastback/coupe-sedan, which we mistook for the 4 Series Gran Coupe. We apologize for the mistake.

The silver lining is that the 3 Series GT is looking sleeker/sportier than ever.


woops, haha oh well. But the 3 series GT looks very, very sporty now. Fooled us for a 4 series Gran Coupe!

Now knowing this your point previously about the M3 staying a sedan and the M4 being a coupe rings more true.

Hopefully, if I had my way, the 4 series Gran Coupe will not have an M version and the M3/M4 will be the only variations. However this seems unlikely based on the path M has taken lately. Looking at the two spy videos of the M3 and M4, the M3 looks to have side air vents on the front bumper like the 1 series M coupe, while the M4 lacks them.

Only prototypes and only speculations but
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      07-20-2012, 04:44 PM   #46
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If you look close you can see the edges of the rear door, whatever it is, it has 4 doors!
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      07-20-2012, 05:01 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWforLife
If you look close you can see the edges of the rear door, whatever it is, it has 4 doors!
There was never any doubt of that. Both the gran coupe and GT have four doors.
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      07-20-2012, 06:12 PM   #48
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UPDATE 2: We've been looking at these spyshots for a couple of hours and compared them to previous 3 GT spyshots. As it turns out, this mule is different from earlier mules. The boot is a bit longer and seems to miss the retractable rear wing spoiler. The shape of the rear doors and rear side windows is very similar, yet not identical to earlier 3GT prototypes. The car appears to be sleeker and longer. That being said, we still don't think it's a 4 Gran Coupe for several reasons: This mule clearly is a hatchback and has a small third side window right behind the C-pillar. The ride height is too high, even for a 4-door coupe. This leaves us with two explanations possible. Either BMW has reworked the 3 GT which wouldn't be a first as the same happened to the 5-Series GT which started as the infamous RFK concept, or we're looking at a LWB 3-series GT. Again, whatever it is, it's most likely not the 4-series Gran Coupe.


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      07-20-2012, 06:25 PM   #49
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we can now all breathe a sigh of relief... and the suspense continues!
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      07-20-2012, 07:02 PM   #50
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I've been looking back at 3GT spy shots too, to be honest the only real difference is how close to the boot lip the rear window seems to be on the old prototypes compared to this... but that could easily just be the result of less camo.

My money is on this as the GT. Doesn't look long enough to be LWB.
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      07-20-2012, 09:34 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRager
before you guys start saying whats the point. im pretty sure its to compete with the A5 Sportback

That's stunning!
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      07-21-2012, 12:48 AM   #52
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Smile

I have just updated my Gran coupe render, looking at the roof line and comparing it with the 4 series mules are you sure it is a 3GT and not a 4 Gran Coupe/GT
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      07-21-2012, 01:16 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread
Why is the b-pillar that thick? That area looks production ready and not camouflaged, seems like a pretty bad blind spot.
To accommodate the frameless windows.
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      07-21-2012, 02:14 AM   #54
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It is definitely the 3er GT.
The issue is why is it different is because the car was so cleverly disguised especially at the rear , the rear was built up with plastic vacumned sheets that built up the rear of the car to disguise a more apparent sleekness.
Although it joins the 5er GT it's strategy is to embody sportiness with a more luxurious cabin. There is still disguise on the cars hiding some elements but there are FEP cars @ the FIZ that are driving about.

When you take into consideration that the Audi A5 Sportback is the best selling A5 model then you can understand the intention of the 3er GT.
Especially in a market like Europe where customers would like a 3er but they need extra flexibility but still want a dynamic driving car.
h
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      07-21-2012, 02:21 AM   #55
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Hope we get to see it quickly in China, if it is as successful as the 5gt it will be a good sale here.
Too bad it will be probably priced above the 335..
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      07-21-2012, 09:30 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southlight View Post
Either BMW has reworked the 3 GT which wouldn't be a first as the same happened to the 5-Series GT which started as the infamous RFK concept, or we're looking at a LWB 3-series GT.
???

Hasn't the 3-Series GT been based on the BMW's Long-Wheel-Base China version from the beginning? I thought that was a key part of BMW's GT design concept, as implemented on the 5-Series GT -- use a longer wheelbase to provide more rear-seat legroom. That, combined with more headroom to create a more-luxurious rear cabin.
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      07-21-2012, 10:00 AM   #57
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It's not a revised prototype of 3er GT. It's the same prototype of 3er GT we've been seeing last few months - yet without all the massive & voluminous plastic camo in the rear & sides. The camo was there to deceive the public; to suggest 3er GT will be just a mini 5er GT: bulky & massive.

But despite the elevated semi-commanding sitting position 3er GT is much more a 3er fastback than 5er GT is a 5er fastback. 5er GT is more a cross-over, a luxurious & elevated huge hatch. A Gran Turismo. 3er is much more dynamic car, with sportier character than 5er GT. Mind there is a bigger difference in character between 3er GT & 5er GT than it is between eg 3er Sedan & 5er Sedan. If 5er GT is more a 7er in character, 3er GT still has a 3er's character.

4er GC will follow the 6er GC formula: it will be a coupe with 2 extra doors. Meaning: sitting low & having sedanesque side profile.
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      07-21-2012, 10:35 AM   #58
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I can confirm this is the BMW 3er Gran Turismo.
The car you have seen and I did mention so is heavily camouflaged to disguise the more sleeker roof-line for BMW's rival to the Audi A5 Sportback , the whole rear end of the previous camouflaged cars is actual a mold taken from the 5er GT and placed on the rear of the car therefore giving the direct impression of a similar concept and resulting anti-5er GT fan-boy hatred.
There are pictures of the prototypes with their hatches open and you can see the overhang of the disguise hanging down.

But remember this is not the first time BMW have intentionally fooled you. Do you remember the first prototypes of the BMW X6? How BMW hid the sleeker bullet shape under a more upright SAV disguise , something similar has been adopted for the X4 which you will see very soon. Disguising new models has become quite an art form now at BMW. They actually vacumn mold complete parts such as the 5er GT rear and shrink it around the 3er GT. The first FWD 1er CST is completely covered in these panels under the camouflage to disguise its more typical BMW shape.
I say it is very good for extensive debate.

It is not the 4er Gran Coupe because as BMW design has already commentated on why they do not like using extra quarterlights after the rear doors on four door sedan models.
You will see the Gran Coupe 4er around the end of the year but before that we will see the FEP F32 and expect to see FEP 3er GT's even sooner as they have started to come out of the FIZ for final testing.

So now that the true 3er Gran Turismo has been unmasked...
Does that mean there will be doubters now embracing the concept?
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      07-21-2012, 10:35 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EnI View Post
It's not a revised prototype of 3er GT. It's the same prototype of 3er GT we've been seeing last few months - yet without all the massive & voluminous plastic camo in the rear & sides. The camo was there to deceive the public; to suggest 3er GT will be just a mini 5er GT: bulky & massive.
There are differences that can't be explained with camo. For example, the shape of the rear side windows (the part who doesn't roll down) is different. The earlier spyshots showed a perfectly triangular piece while it's trapezoid on the new prototype.


Best regards,
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      07-21-2012, 11:18 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southlight View Post
There are differences that can't be explained with camo. For example, the shape of the rear side windows (the part who doesn't roll down) is different. The earlier spyshots showed a perfectly triangular piece while it's trapezoid on the new prototype.


Best regards,
south
It was perspex see-thru panels that was then layered with the camouflge sheets, the more 5er GT rear end was a vacumed plastic mold applied to the rear of the car and shrunk round the rear body before being covered in layers of BMW's patented camouflage , The rear shot shows the bulked out sides as does a previous shot where the tailgate is open and the panel overhangs from the edges.
The car has not been redesigned as it is too late to make any sheet-metal changes. It is very much indication of what you will get from BMW prototypes from now-on , even some use cannibalized parts from existing prototypes before they are destroyed like every BMW prototype including FEP cars.

But do not forget that the original prototypes for the BMW X6 and soon to be adopted for the BMW X4 used a more upright rear to disguise the overall Coupe shape which fooled quite a lot of people at the end result.

The final 3er GT looks very much like this.
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      07-21-2012, 11:31 AM   #61
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Thanks a lot for the detailed explanation, Scott!


Best regards,
south
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      07-21-2012, 02:30 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southlight View Post
There are differences that can't be explained with camo. For example, the shape of the rear side windows (the part who doesn't roll down) is different. The earlier spyshots showed a perfectly triangular piece while it's trapezoid on the new prototype.


Best regards,
south
You might be right after all. The differences are slight but they are there. Eg. the B-pillar is also of slightly different shape. And rear side window has a bit different shape (therefore the difference between triangle & trapezoid shape of the smaller window). The roof seems to be quite lower, the rear window smaller, the trunk longer. etc. And the latest prototype has the exactly the same front as 4er prototypes.

Either they revised the 3er GT which would seem very odd in this late phase just before FEP starts, or ...

Is it possible this is 4er Gran Tourer / active Tourer? A 5dr fastback coupe ala A5? Mind BMW just registered 2er Active Tourer / Gran Tourer trademark. And there are rumors BMW will offer some sort of 5dr coupe fastback in 2er form. Perhaps a 5dr 4er GT / AT is also coming.

Any news on that?
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      07-21-2012, 03:13 PM   #63
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The 3er is earmarked for an equivalent of the upcoming BMW 1er FAST which mixes SAV solidity with the space of an MPV in a Touring esque Coupe body ,
Only however if the 1er is highly successful will they consider green-lighting it for the 3er. To understand how the idea works Citroens DS 5 gives a sort of impression. If green-lighted the 3er will be RWD/AWD and not FWD/AWD as the 1er.

The Active Tourer is something like a Hyundai Veloster but in a more fastback body reminiscient of the classic 2002/1600 Touring in terms of shape.
This car has not been green-lit but it has Adrian VanHooydunk's signature all over it.

If you compare previous spyshots you can see key elements are heavily camouflaged with layer upon layer of camouflage .
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      07-21-2012, 03:42 PM   #64
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Quote:
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It is not the 4er Gran Coupe because as BMW design has already commentated on why they do not like using extra quarterlights after the rear doors on four door sedan models.
What does this mean, "extra quarterlights"?
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      07-21-2012, 05:00 PM   #65
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The Extra rear glass after the rear door .

This has never been on a BMW four door because the BMW symbolic hofmeister kink is always integrated on the rear door opening.
It is more elegant , models like the Touring and the X line need them to break up the expanse of metal around the C-Pillars.

BMW designers are against that as are engineers about lack of B-Pillars which compromises structural rigidity. As was found on the E31 BMW 8er Coupe.
So much so that had the late eighties early nineties recession not kicked in , that Wolfgang Reitzle the characteristic R&D boss wanted to re-engineer a B-pillar into the car.
A feat he achieved with the BMW M8 which included a B-Pillar that helped to bring about a substantial transformation of the car. But the crisis at the time killed the M8 and the BMW 850i Cabrio, but it did bring a more cost-effective 840i for those that "struggled" to reach for the 850i.

For those that pine for a modern 8er...


It is called the 6er now.
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      07-21-2012, 05:02 PM   #66
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Jason is the the 3GT even coming to the U.S.????


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