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      08-03-2012, 05:07 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Casey 5 View Post
S4 too bland? Are you kidding?

I just saw an Estroil blue S4 with two tone black/silver nappa seats, flat bottom steering wheel, Supercharged badges, 19inch peelers, cool front and back LED set up. Bang and Olsen sound system. Alu optic stone guards.

If that is bland we should all sign up!

I think the Bangle era has everyone thinking if the car is not full of creases...its bland.

The hallmark of great GERMAN design is SIMPLICITY....I think we may have forgotten that point.

Go back and look at the E30 or the E39...or even the E46....call them bland? I call them German!
That's the key though, isn't it. Now imagine that same S4 you saw. 18" wheels. White. Keep the LED lights, and the leather, and compare it to a simple white 335i Sport (by simple, I mean not the M Sport). Are you really going to tell me the Audi looks better then the BMW? I guess the answer is subjective, but I think most people would agree the BMW looks better. Can you MAKE the Audi look better? Sure. You have to spend more money on the 19" wheels, and the Estoril Blue too. I'd opt for the Alcantara/Leather seats, and yes, the car would definitely look gorgeous. M Sport 335i gorgeous? No, I personally don't think so.

I really think the problem is with the A4/S4. Its a bit outdated. I personally think the new A6, A7, and RS5 are gorgeous. And the R8 goes without saying, its possibly one of the best looking super cars.
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      08-03-2012, 07:30 PM   #24
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They just updated the S4 interior
a little and it's really nice. Better than the 335 IMO. Overall when priced the same I view them as equal but am probably going with the 335 because the lease prices are much better.
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      08-04-2012, 03:13 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roki_014 View Post
I think the fair comparison would be s4 vs M3 Sedan and not 335i vs S4
That was many many years and chassis's ago.
The 335i is the direct competitor to the S4.

Remember, Audi got rid of the V6 A4 variant, and dropped the price on the S4 to better compete with the 335i.

The S4's performance is a direct comparison to the 335i.
The S4 just happens to be a bit quicker, and Audi offers a real LSD for the rear.
S4's acceleration advantage isn't so much it's greater power as it is it's ability to put the power to the wheels and the ground.

Some would say the 335Xi is closer comparison, but I disagree.
IN terms of closer acceleration, the Xdrive 335i would do better, but for all around performance the RWD is the best handling 3 series variant, imo, and in some mag reviews. There is very little performance testing with the Xdrive BMW 3 series. I'd like to see more.
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      08-04-2012, 03:29 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Casey 5 View Post
S4 too bland? Are you kidding?

I just saw an Estroil blue S4 with two tone black/silver nappa seats, flat bottom steering wheel, Supercharged badges, 19inch peelers, cool front and back LED set up. Bang and Olsen sound system. Alu optic stone guards.

If that is bland we should all sign up!

I think the Bangle era has everyone thinking if the car is not full of creases...its bland.

The hallmark of great GERMAN design is SIMPLICITY....I think we may have forgotten that point.

Go back and look at the E30 or the E39...or even the E46....call them bland? I call them German!
I'm with you on that.
The S4 has a very nice exterior. Big difference between bland and subtle.
Yes, it's not in your face, but it's got nice lines.

The E90 pre face lift was awful outside and inside.
There is nothing I like about the E90's interior at all.
The dash was a large swath of boredom done by bored designers.

The A4/S4 current interior is not as good as the previous gen.
They added too much plasticky bits that they shouldn't have done.
My 06 A4 has a very nice interior, that was around the time when Audi was greatly praised for it's interior design. The new one is ok, it's nice, but with the F30 BMW has brought the 3 series up to par.
The only part that I find odd is the tacked on looking iDrive screen.
It leaves the whole center dash kind of void. There is plenty of room there to have incorporated the iDrive/Nav screen to make it more interesting, and then not have the tacked on look.
Over all though, the f30 dash is very nice, me likey, me ordered a 335i.

Ergonomically, the A4/S4 has better/more room for the driver than the F30.
BMW could have/should have done better in that regard.
The large door pull handle doesn't work. There is a similar pull handle design in my 135i, but it's better executed as they recessed the bottom of the handle into the mirror and window controls so that the handles meeting point is smooth and doesn't jute out like it does in the new 3.
The 3 door pull is an exercise in how to make a door pull ugly and pointless. They have recessed it or just left it flat. IT would have been more comfortable and better looking.
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      08-04-2012, 03:40 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zamm3k View Post
Nothing wrong with the regular 335i at all. As a matter of fact, the regular bumper has grown on me more than the M Sport bumper. But I think BMW takes the M Sport as the real competition to the S4, as those would be the two "sportier" variants of the B8 and F30 chassis'.

The only "performance" upgrades I can think of on the M Sport is the lower suspension height. That's about it. I remember reading ( I can't confirm this though) that the electric steering will be tuned to make it a bit sportier.
The Msport standard suspension is the same as the sport line.
They both have a 10mm drop from the standard suspension.
You can get the adaptive M suspension as an option, but it doesn't have any lower drop.

As for the steering it's the same, at least according to BMW literature.
If it's different, or better tuned in the Msport it will be an unexpected bonus.
If you get the handling pkg it comes with the adaptive suspension and VSS, variable sport steering. That racks steering ratio is a bit tighter than the standard rack. That will give it a slightly different feel, but overall I don't know yet. My 335i Msport with handling pkg will be here in a few weeks, and I'm looking forward to feel, if any, difference in the steering besides the slightly tighter ratio.

As for firmness, all 3 comes with "driver mode" that can be set to "sport", which brings it closer to the heft of the E46 and E90 3's. But, it's still not as heavy as those.

About the only performance difference with Msport could be the tires, as the standard set is 225 front and 255 rear. Besides looking good, there is wider rubber in the rear to help in handling due to the wider contact patch.
Also, I can't confirm this until I get mine, but the summer performance tires are likely to be actual summer performance tires rather than the summer touring tires that many if not most sport lines get.
I was very disappointed to discover that what BMW calls "summer performance" tires on the sport line 18's are actually "touring" type summer tires. So, if M sport gets real summer perf tires on the standard 18's, that will be a bit of added performance.
The 19" optional size seem to come with true summer performance rubber.
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      08-04-2012, 04:56 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Casey 5 View Post
S4 too bland? Are you kidding?

I just saw an Estroil blue S4 with two tone black/silver nappa seats, flat bottom steering wheel, Supercharged badges, 19inch peelers, cool front and back LED set up. Bang and Olsen sound system. Alu optic stone guards.

If that is bland we should all sign up!
Seriously. The latest Audis are stunning, visually. I suppose the B5-B7 could be called sorta bland.

I wouldn't say I find the Audi interiors dated per se, but they're several years old, so yeah, they should look dated compared to the brand-new F30.
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      08-06-2012, 12:22 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
Sounds like someone hasn't driven a B8 S4.
I did tracked both cars, that's why i stated my evaluations of both cars.
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      08-06-2012, 01:52 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zamm3k View Post
That's the key though, isn't it. Now imagine that same S4 you saw. 18" wheels. White. Keep the LED lights, and the leather, and compare it to a simple white 335i Sport (by simple, I mean not the M Sport). Are you really going to tell me the Audi looks better then the BMW? I guess the answer is subjective, but I think most people would agree the BMW looks better. Can you MAKE the Audi look better? Sure. You have to spend more money on the 19" wheels, and the Estoril Blue too. I'd opt for the Alcantara/Leather seats, and yes, the car would definitely look gorgeous. M Sport 335i gorgeous? No, I personally don't think so.

I really think the problem is with the A4/S4. Its a bit outdated. I personally think the new A6, A7, and RS5 are gorgeous. And the R8 goes without saying, its possibly one of the best looking super cars.
I went from a 2007 BMW 335i coupe with 10k in mods to a 2012 S4 and I can tell you that I get the almost the same amount of attention as my Dad does in his 2011 M3 coupe and much more than my 335i did.

Let me say that both cars are awesome, but don't think a "basic" F30 is more attractive to most than a "basic" S4 because that's definitely not the case from my experience, there's no way the F30 M-Sport looks anywhere near as good as the E92 M3. If you look at the B8.5 S4 and the new S6, you'll see they look almost exactly the same excluding the LED light design (pretty close though if you don't opt for full LED S6 headlights). So you can't love the new A6/S6 and not love the new S4 without being biased against the direct competition to your car.

One more time for the record, I love both cars but chose the S4 personally.
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      08-06-2012, 09:28 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jon328i View Post
I did tracked both cars, that's why i stated my evaluations of both cars.
Interesting, the B8's, especially with the Sports Differential are much more neutral than any recent Audi sedan and when really pushed, seem more capable of maintaining their neutrality than an E90 (non M3).
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      08-06-2012, 09:42 AM   #32
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Did anyone test drive both 2013 335 and 2013 S4 before making any comment? I test drive both car this Saturday? I been a long time bimmer and made the switch this Saturday based on simple criteria.

Road Noise.

I had Bimmer:
E36
E46 ZHP
07 E92 335
09 E92 335xi.

I can tell you, as i grew older, the road noise coming from my E92 made it sound like a train.... not talking about Muffler or Engine noise.. simple road noise.

Just in general not happy with my e92, so I went to test drive the E30 335i when the BMW was hosting Olympic test drive event.

E30 has the same road noise exhibit in my E92. I can hear the travelling on the road. and also cruise at 60Mph seem to be louder then my E92, which was weird. I should not be hearing engine cruising... or the road at all.. Yet i seem to be picking up all those...

Compare to 2013 S4 test drive an hour before I test drive the E30.

I am at the age that trash talk on which car is faster then which car by 0.5 sec blah blah blah...don't matter...

I am talking about finesse of road drive experience.

2013 S4 id dead quiet inside. Both car test drive with windows closed, AC on, and music off.

S4 is dead quiet. I can talk to wife and kids.. without shouting and not able to hear anything beside hum hum hum from the Car....

E30, i can hear I am traveling on road.. much like my E92. Engine seems to be loud at cruising speed.


anyone else has similar experience with their E or F car?
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      08-06-2012, 12:22 PM   #33
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I have a 2008 335xi and test drove a 2012 335i and a 2012 S4. Based on a 30 minute drive on the Audi S4 and a 2 hour drive of the 2012 335i (both automatics) the Audi was faster and more fun to drive and more a pure driver's car. The sport differential is quite amazing on the Audi and allows you to rotate the rear end of the all wheel drive car around corners I like to hear the engine noise when I am driving hard so a car that is too quiet is a strike against the car for me.

In Canada after discounts, a similar equipped Audi is probably about $3,000 to $5,000 more than the BMW. The rear seat room is also quite a bit tighter in the Audi than the BMW. The Audi will be redesigned in 2 to 3 years while the BMW will be the new style for 5 or 6 more years. I ended up ordering a 2013 335xi because of these 3 reasons.........
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      08-06-2012, 12:56 PM   #34
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The B8 S4 is an awesome car--that cannot be argued.

With the 2013 "re-fresh" Audi has done some very nice updates to the interior and the front and rear end. But the heart of the B8 S4 remains the great 333HP supercharged engine. When you complete the package with sport/diff, DSG, and quattro...it is tough not to take your hat off to the folks at Audi.

The REAL question is how the folks at BMW had 6 years to make the next generation 335i came out with a product that...at best...matches the S4 which has been out since 2009?

What happens in 2014/15 when the new Audi S4/S5 launch?

Will the F30 335i be a match?

Can the F30 335i hold the top of the hill for the next 5 to 6 years....the way the E90/92 did and the E46 did with revolutionary ideas like the twin turbo N54 engine or the ZSP package?

Its like the new F30 335i barely keeps BMW in the game "for now"....what about tomorrow...the new S4/S5s will soon be here!
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      08-06-2012, 01:15 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Casey 5 View Post
The B8 S4 is an awesome car--that cannot be argued.

With the 2013 "re-fresh" Audi has done some very nice updates to the interior and the front and rear end. But the heart of the B8 S4 remains the great 333HP supercharged engine. When you complete the package with sport/diff, DSG, and quattro...it is tough not to take your hat off to the folks at Audi.

The REAL question is how the folks at BMW had 6 years to make the next generation 335i came out with a product that...at best...matches the S4 which has been out since 2009?

What happens in 2014/15 when the new Audi S4/S5 launch?

Will the F30 335i be a match?

Can the F30 335i hold the top of the hill for the next 5 to 6 years....the way the E90/92 did and the E46 did with revolutionary ideas like the twin turbo N54 engine or the ZSP package?

Its like the new F30 335i barely keeps BMW in the game "for now"....what about tomorrow...the new S4/S5s will soon be here!

Maybe BMW has something new up its sleeves? Maybe the spy shots of the so called M3 is actually the 335 replacement.

If I remember correctly when the e90 came out the top line was the 330i which was also a carry over from previous generation. So if history repeats itself then we might see a new engine in 2 years. 340i?
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      08-06-2012, 03:58 PM   #36
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Fully Agree. BMW will not stay on top of the performance sedan/coupe heap with the N55 engine...at least not just putting out current performance.

The 2014/15 S4/S5 and the others will pull way ahead in the very near future.

My guess is that BMW goes back to a true twin turbo set up that puts out 350HP.....without the fuel pump and oil filter problems attendant in the E90/E92s 335i.

My guess it will be a 350i
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      08-06-2012, 04:16 PM   #37
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so this is a brand new model vs a how many years old model now?
shouldn't be comparing the two until a new s4 comes out.
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      08-06-2012, 04:20 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jon328i View Post
Audi S4 - nose heavy, lots of understeer..
BMW 335i - near 50/50 weight distribution, better handling.
yep AWD will always have understeer unless it just has gobs of power.
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      08-06-2012, 04:27 PM   #39
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It's certain there will be an M Performance line for the F30...

Maybe we'll see the diesel performance car which Scott stated was in development. Hope we see an M Performance Diesel and Petrol model, which I personally think is possible. The 3 series is the biggest seller worldwide, the UK loves diesel (so a high performance diesel would sell like hot cakes) and US is majorly petrol so there's a big market there for an M performance petrol).

What better way to stick it to your competitors than to offer 2 outperfoming alternatives
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      08-06-2012, 04:39 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinchan View Post
Did anyone test drive both 2013 335 and 2013 S4 before making any comment? I test drive both car this Saturday? I been a long time bimmer and made the switch this Saturday based on simple criteria.

Road Noise.

I had Bimmer:
E36
E46 ZHP
07 E92 335
09 E92 335xi.

I can tell you, as i grew older, the road noise coming from my E92 made it sound like a train.... not talking about Muffler or Engine noise.. simple road noise.

Just in general not happy with my e92, so I went to test drive the E30 335i when the BMW was hosting Olympic test drive event.

E30 has the same road noise exhibit in my E92. I can hear the travelling on the road. and also cruise at 60Mph seem to be louder then my E92, which was weird. I should not be hearing engine cruising... or the road at all.. Yet i seem to be picking up all those...

Compare to 2013 S4 test drive an hour before I test drive the E30.

I am at the age that trash talk on which car is faster then which car by 0.5 sec blah blah blah...don't matter...

I am talking about finesse of road drive experience.

2013 S4 id dead quiet inside. Both car test drive with windows closed, AC on, and music off.

S4 is dead quiet. I can talk to wife and kids.. without shouting and not able to hear anything beside hum hum hum from the Car....

E30, i can hear I am traveling on road.. much like my E92. Engine seems to be loud at cruising speed.


anyone else has similar experience with their E or F car?
I agree on the noise inside the F30.
I don't understand why there is so much.
Seems BMW tried too hard in keeping the weight down as the size grew, that they decided to leave out too much sound damping material.
The tire/road noise coming from the rear is something from an economy car over a decade ago.

My sister's new Hyundai Elantra is quieter inside.
In fact, I test drove a number of cars in that class as I shopped for her, and all of them seemed quieter than the F30.

That said, it doesn't bother me that much as I have audio and music playing all the time, and I play it louder than the road/tire noise.
But, if all that noise weren't there in the first place, I wouldn't have to turn it up as loud.

My 135i is quieter than the last F30 328i base I drove just last week.
Yet, the 135i is quieter inside. The so called "entry" level BMW is quieter.
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      08-07-2012, 10:11 AM   #41
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Quote:
The Msport standard suspension is the same as the sport line. They both have a 10mm drop from the standard suspension. You can get the adaptive M suspension as an option, but it doesn't have any lower drop.
I built a base F30 with handling package on BMWUSA, it did have
10mm body drop.
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      08-07-2012, 05:00 PM   #42
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Two extremely competitive cars.

I'm in the mood for a coupe next, so I plan to bake off the S5 and the F32 when it comes out. This discussion about the F3X being loud inside is not lost on me though; that matters to me a lot these days.

I do expect a power upgrade for the 335 (or 435, or whatever they call it), because there doesn't seem to be enough performance room between the N20 and N55 cars right now.
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      08-07-2012, 06:18 PM   #43
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There is a 13 foot long 335?
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      10-02-2012, 04:09 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Casey 5 View Post
The B8 S4 is an awesome car--that cannot be argued.

With the 2013 "re-fresh" Audi has done some very nice updates to the interior and the front and rear end. But the heart of the B8 S4 remains the great 333HP supercharged engine. When you complete the package with sport/diff, DSG, and quattro...it is tough not to take your hat off to the folks at Audi.

The REAL question is how the folks at BMW had 6 years to make the next generation 335i came out with a product that...at best...matches the S4 which has been out since 2009?

What happens in 2014/15 when the new Audi S4/S5 launch?

Will the F30 335i be a match?

Can the F30 335i hold the top of the hill for the next 5 to 6 years....the way the E90/92 did and the E46 did with revolutionary ideas like the twin turbo N54 engine or the ZSP package?

Its like the new F30 335i barely keeps BMW in the game "for now"....what about tomorrow...the new S4/S5s will soon be here!

IMHO, an extremely accurate thought. Agreed 100%.

After 6 years, BMW came out with F30 that really disappointed me. Since 2010, S4 hasn't changed much, definitely not more than BMW 335i and results:

2009 E90 LCI vs. 2010 S4 B8:


2012 F30 vs. 2012 S4 B8 (not even the Facelift S4 yet):
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