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      10-21-2012, 02:17 PM   #45
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hello all. I bought a 2011 335i xdrive coupe in may of 2011. msport package, premium audio, navigation, etc. 6 speed. at the time I was debating between the 335 and an S4. I ended up choosing the 335 because of some aesthetic concerns, as well as a sort of emotional loyalty to BMW. my first car that I cared about was a 1974 2002. the next car I cared about was a 2002 325 wagon. I still miss that car. even with the turbo the 335 reminded me of the balance and poise that I loved so much in both of my other bmws and honestly the S4 felt artificial and too.. insulated. evn the exhaust sound seemed like it was faking. the steering felt like an arcade video game from when I was 12. I could tell with my eyes that the car was handling well but I didn't feel anything.

these past few months I realized I need four doors and I thought maybe I would take the opportunity to switch brands and try a new engine rather than just get a 335i sedan. so I tried the S4s again. now this is not a comparison between the new 335's and the 2013 S4, so perhaps irrelevant to this thread. but from what the rest of you are saying, many of the strengths of the 335 were lost in the new iteration. what I can say tho is that my first testing of the S4 was an unfair comparison to the 335 because the cars I tried didn't have the sport differential or drive select. what I can say now is that if you are considering an S4 you MUST drive it with these options. the adaptive suspension is cool too but I think a little unnecessary as I plan to lower my suspension and have it set up to be in responsive sport mode all of the time. if you need to be able to adjust it to suit other situations perhaps it's a good option for you.

what I feel now, after 19 months of owning and loving a 335, and now owning an S4, is this:

they are very different cars. but set up properly, the S4 is WAY more fun to drive it sounds better, the power delivery has a much more pleasing (to me) arc, the brakes are better, the navi and iPod interface are better and make more sense, the leather is nicer, the steering wheel is better, and the handling is much better than the xdrive. my complaints are these:

the looks are perhaps less consistent thru the car as the bmws are. the front and rear look slightly menacing and burly while the profile is a little too 'grocery getter' for me.

the suspension is super competent and doesn't sway the car around but I'd like a little bit more road feedback. it feels slightly numb. hoping lowering it a bit will help this. and perhaps some bigger rims with low profile tires will help too. that being said I have to say I now know for sure that I HATE run flats and really recommend swapping them out if you do go with the 335.

the steering is taking some serious getting used to. this will likely be an issue with the 2013 bmws too.. I can't say I don't like it, but the lightness at low speeds makes the car feel cheap. once the revs go up tho and I get to speed it is one of the best steering inputs I've ever had. I guess my only point on this applies to both BMW and Audi: don't be too quick to judge the electronic/mechanical steering. it's just different NAND perhaps those of us who feel loyal to the hydraulic just need to give it a little time.

and last: I still think the comparisonv is unfair. properly set up (and I must repeat: an S4 without sport differential and drive select isn't an S4), the price difference is almost $10k. the HP is NOT an inconsequential difference. my S4 feels and is much quicker on the street than my 335 was. and the engine is the same in the '13s. the looks are totally different. only people who know what an S4 is look at my car. to anyone else it's a family sedan and not exciting. almost everyone looked at my 335. with the 19" IS rims it was undeniably eye catching. frankly that's part of what I like about the S4 but this is a totally personal thing. so, if you like the aesthetics, an the money difference is not an issue, I think the S4 is a better car. but $10k is nothing to sneeze at and I think if you aren't going to go for prestige package and all the bits that the BMW may be a better choice. and to echo many people on these kinds of forums: they are both excellent cars. I feel very very happy about both, and I hope that my opinions are helpful to you guys as I've been able to drive the 335 for a year and a half and now two weeks into my S4 I feel like I have a handle on what the differences mean TO ME. maybe not to you.


drive safe but fun.

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      10-21-2012, 03:42 PM   #46
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hello all. I bought a 2011 335i xdrive coupe in may of 2011. msport package, premium audio, navigation, etc. 6 speed. at the time I was debating between the 335 and an S4. I ended up choosing the 335 because of some aesthetic concerns, as well as a sort of emotional loyalty to BMW. my first car that I cared about was a 1974 2002. the next car I cared about was a 2002 325 wagon. I still miss that car. even with the turbo the 335 reminded me of the balance and poise that I loved so much in both of my other bmws and honestly the S4 felt artificial and too.. insulated. evn the exhaust sound seemed like it was faking. the steering felt like an arcade video game from when I was 12. I could tell with my eyes that the car was handling well but I didn't feel anything.

these past few months I realized I need four doors and I thought maybe I would take the opportunity to switch brands and try a new engine rather than just get a 335i sedan. so I tried the S4s again. now this is not a comparison between the new 335's and the 2013 S4, so perhaps irrelevant to this thread. but from what the rest of you are saying, many of the strengths of the 335 were lost in the new iteration. what I can say tho is that my first testing of the S4 was an unfair comparison to the 335 because the cars I tried didn't have the sport differential or drive select. what I can say now is that if you are considering an S4 you MUST drive it with these options. the adaptive suspension is cool too but I think a little unnecessary as I plan to lower my suspension and have it set up to be in responsive sport mode all of the time. if you need to be able to adjust it to suit other situations perhaps it's a good option for you.

what I feel now, after 19 months of owning and loving a 335, and now owning an S4, is this:

they are very different cars. but set up properly, the S4 is WAY more fun to drive it sounds better, the power delivery has a much more pleasing (to me) arc, the brakes are better, the navi and iPod interface are better and make more sense, the leather is nicer, the steering wheel is better, and the handling is much better than the xdrive. my complaints are these:

the looks are perhaps less consistent thru the car as the bmws are. the front and rear look slightly menacing and burly while the profile is a little too 'grocery getter' for me.

the suspension is super competent and doesn't sway the car around but I'd like a little bit more road feedback. it feels slightly numb. hoping lowering it a bit will help this. and perhaps some bigger rims with low profile tires will help too. that being said I have to say I now know for sure that I HATE run flats and really recommend swapping them out if you do go with the 335.

the steering is taking some serious getting used to. this will likely be an issue with the 2013 bmws too.. I can't say I don't like it, but the lightness at low speeds makes the car feel cheap. once the revs go up tho and I get to speed it is one of the best steering inputs I've ever had. I guess my only point on this applies to both BMW and Audi: don't be too quick to judge the electronic/mechanical steering. it's just different NAND perhaps those of us who feel loyal to the hydraulic just need to give it a little time.

and last: I still think the comparisonv is unfair. properly set up (and I must repeat: an S4 without sport differential and drive select isn't an S4), the price difference is almost $10k. the HP is NOT an inconsequential difference. my S4 feels and is much quicker on the street than my 335 was. and the engine is the same in the '13s. the looks are totally different. only people who know what an S4 is look at my car. to anyone else it's a family sedan and not exciting. almost everyone looked at my 335. with the 19" IS rims it was undeniably eye catching. frankly that's part of what I like about the S4 but this is a totally personal thing. so, if you like the aesthetics, an the money difference is not an issue, I think the S4 is a better car. but $10k is nothing to sneeze at and I think if you aren't going to go for prestige package and all the bits that the BMW may be a better choice. and to echo many people on these kinds of forums: they are both excellent cars. I feel very very happy about both, and I hope that my opinions are helpful to you guys as I've been able to drive the 335 for a year and a half and now two weeks into my S4 I feel like I have a handle on what the differences mean TO ME. maybe not to you.


drive safe but fun.

N
+1, after owning 2 F30 335i's (first trade assisted, second bought back, both for steering vibration) I completely agree with you. The S4 is simply a better performer. I was especially unimpressed by both of my 335's brakes (the 2nd was an M sport). They lacked feel and felt poor in contrast to the E90 and the S4. S4 pulls harder (and all the way to redline). Overall a much more exhilarating driving experience. Plus its extremely annoying that so many of the F30s are ruined by the steering vibration.
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      10-21-2012, 04:13 PM   #47
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+1, after owning 2 F30 335i's (first trade assisted, second bought back, both for steering vibration) I completely agree with you. The S4 is simply a better performer. I was especially unimpressed by either of my 335's brakes (the 2nd was an M sport). They lacked feel and felt poor in contrast to the E90 and the S4. S4 pulls harder (and all the way to redline). Overall a much more exhilarating driving experience. Plus its extremely annoying that so many of the F30s are ruined by the steering vibration.
I kinda like the S4, but the look seems dated, front bumper/grill is horrible, exhaust sounds like something on a teenagers Japanese car and the lease terms were pretty bad. 53% residual and 6% interest for a 39 month term. Oh, and you have to pay for maintenance every 10K. I computed about $2K in scheduled maintenance visits for a 39 month car.

Audi apparently doesn't need to move cars.
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      10-21-2012, 04:26 PM   #48
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I kinda like the S4, but the look seems dated, front bumper/grill is horrible, exhaust sounds like something on a teenagers Japanese car and the lease terms were pretty bad. 53% residual and 6% interest for a 39 month term. Oh, and you have to pay for maintenance every 10K. I computed about $2K in scheduled maintenance visits for a 39 month car.

Audi apparently doesn't need to move cars.
6%! I was just offered 0.0153MF or 3.67%, you should asses if your dealer is giving you the lowest rate.
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      10-21-2012, 08:30 PM   #49
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      10-21-2012, 08:50 PM   #50
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I would take my 335i M-Sport over a Volkswagon....audi, anyday.
Interesting mindset, calling an S4 a volkswagon.

Audi....Porsche........Bugatti

BMW........Rolls....F30 steering vibration.....N63 oil pump recall......

I owned an F30 M sport, wasn't anything that special. You'll see 50 335i's before you see one S4.
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      10-21-2012, 08:54 PM   #51
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Interesting mindset, calling an S4 a volkswagon.

Audi....Porsche........Bugatti

BMW........Rolls....F30 steering vibration.....N63 oil pump recall......

I owned an F30 M sport, wasn't anything that special. You'll see 50 335i's before you see one S4.
If your trying to make the point that he S4 is better because it's more rare, thats a failed argument.
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      10-21-2012, 09:09 PM   #52
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Interesting mindset, calling an S4 a volkswagon.

Audi....Porsche........Bugatti

BMW........Rolls....F30 steering vibration.....N63 oil pump recall......

I owned an F30 M sport, wasn't anything that special. You'll see 50 335i's before you see one S4.
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      10-21-2012, 09:19 PM   #53
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If your trying to make the point that he S4 is better because it's more rare, thats a failed argument.
Actually no I'm going off of this....and personal experience (owning two F30s, sport line and M sport performance rubber, also extensive drives in the S4)

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IMHO, an extremely accurate thought. Agreed 100%.

After 6 years, BMW came out with F30 that really disappointed me. Since 2010, S4 hasn't changed much, definitely not more than BMW 335i and results:

2009 E90 LCI vs. 2010 S4 B8:


2012 F30 vs. 2012 S4 B8 (not even the Facelift S4 yet):
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      10-21-2012, 09:21 PM   #54
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6%! I was just offered 0.0153MF or 3.67%, you should asses if your dealer is giving you the lowest rate.
B4 we talked lease I drilled him hard for a discount off MSRP. We got to $3K discount of a $55K car and then he plugged in the lease numbers. I balked at the residual and interest and he murmured something about Audi being more realistic than BMW with their values. Like I care!

Plus I'd need to pay for maintenance. And, listen to that teenager exhaust note. Not for me.

Oh, and BTW, the car I drove had the B&O stereo and the bass was horrid. the under seat (or wherever) subs bottomed so easily. I played with tone controls and just couldn't get it to sound right. The highs were lovely, just like typical B&O.
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      10-21-2012, 09:25 PM   #55
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B4 we talked lease I drilled him hard for a discount off MSRP. We got to $3K discount of a $55K car and then he plugged in the lease numbers. I balked at the residual and interest and he murmured something about Audi being more realistic than BMW with their values. Like I care!

Plus I'd need to pay for maintenance. And, listen to that teenager exhaust note. Not for me.

Oh, and BTW, the car I drove had the B&O stereo and the bass was horrid. the under seat (or wherever) subs bottomed so easily. I played with tone controls and just couldn't get it to sound right. The highs were lovely, just like typical B&O.
Yeah I agree about the sound system, its not the 6400$ system in other Audi/MB cars (like the one I have in my AMG). You should get the dealer to throw in AudiCare for free, I believe its 800 dollars outright to buy. If you deal hard you can get it thrown in.
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      10-21-2012, 09:28 PM   #56
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Yeah I agree about the sound system, its not the 6400$ system in other Audi/MB cars (like the one I have in my AMG). You should get the dealer to throw in AudiCare for free, I believe its 800 dollars outright to buy. If you deal hard you can get it thrown in.
But if I cannot get his interest down to 3% or less and residual close to 60%, he's out!
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      10-21-2012, 09:28 PM   #57
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Actually no I'm going off of this....and personal experience (owning two F30s, sport line and M sport performance rubber, also extensive drives in the S4)
Iv'e seen both of those, driven the S4 twice and an s5 once. But don;t think the S4 is better than the 335. Glad you do. Enjoy your S4.
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      10-21-2012, 09:33 PM   #58
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Iv'e seen both of those, driven the S4 twice and an s5 once. But don;t think the S4 is better than the 335. Glad you do. Enjoy your S4.
I don't even own an S4? I assumed you've seen both of this due to your involvement in this thread. Therefore my objective view on the vehicles holds true, the S4 is the better performer, plain and simple.
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      10-21-2012, 09:35 PM   #59
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I don't even own an S4? I assumed you've seen both of this due to your involvement in this thread. Therefore my objective view on the vehicles holds true, the S4 is the better performer, plain and simple.
It does perform well, but it looks like a Passat!
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      10-21-2012, 09:39 PM   #60
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Actually no I'm going off of this....and personal experience (owning two F30s, sport line and M sport performance rubber, also extensive drives in the S4)
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      10-21-2012, 09:39 PM   #61
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Another one of these? My god... .
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      10-21-2012, 09:39 PM   #62
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It does perform well, but it looks like a Passat!
See you think it looks like a Passat, I'll respect that because that's subjective and your opinion. Saying the BMW performs better is an untrue statement. Performance figures are objective, multiple tests don't lie, the S4 is simply a better performer. I'm not referring to your comments btw......
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      10-21-2012, 09:39 PM   #63
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I don't even own an S4? I assumed you've seen both of this due to your involvement in this thread. Therefore my objective view on the vehicles holds true, the S4 is the better performer, plain and simple.
My bad then.

And yes, that is your objective opinion.
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      10-21-2012, 09:43 PM   #64
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Another one of these? My god... .
The funny thing is that I'm a BMW fan, I owned f30s before I turned them in because I believed steering vibration to be unacceptable for 50K plus vehicles. I've owned multiple BMWs in the past and quite enjoy the brand. I just can't stand people saying BMWs are "better" when the evidence on the performance data says otherwise. Even the reviewer in Head2Head comments that the S4's steering and feel is better. It just bothers me when people on trash talk the S4 as some piece of crap when it is not in the slightest because they own BMWs and refuse to give other cars a chance. I own an S63 AMG and I'll be the first to say it doesn't really handle well at all because that is the way it is. I'm not convincing myself that just because I bought the sedan that doesn't perform as well as the competitor that my car is still better. I bought the AMG because its a hotrod and sounds amazing, if I had wanted a handler I would have purchased a panamera turbo. It would be better if there was no trash talking competitors that make really great vehicles.
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      10-21-2012, 09:45 PM   #65
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See you think it looks like a Passat, I'll respect that because that's subjective and your opinion. Saying the BMW performs better is an untrue statement. Performance figures are objective, multiple tests don't lie, the S4 is simply a better performer. I'm not referring to your comments btw......
Just found this for you, http://forums.audiworld.com/forumdisplay.php?f=6 please post there.
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