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      08-22-2012, 05:38 PM   #1
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2012s significantly discounted?

Hi folks,

After owning my current car for 10 years, I'm in the market for a 2012 Sedan 335i. I would prefer to buy a gently used 2010/2011 model, but I need an automatic and I've heard such good things about the 8-speed auto.

Now that 2013s are showing up in force (at least at South Florida dealers), I'm wondering what sort of discounts I should expect? Does BMW provide special incentives to "move" the 2012 cars? Should I expect/demand below-invoice pricing?

I've checked online (BMWUSA.com, autotrader, individual dealership web sites, etc.) and the 2012s don't appear to have received any discounts as of yet, but I have to believe that when a 2012 is sitting next to a 2013 on a dealer lot the 2012 will need to be discounted substantially in order to sell?

In case it makes a difference, I'm planning to keep this car at least four years, and I don't plan to lease or finance.

Thanks for any help!
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      08-22-2012, 06:04 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EnerJi View Post
Now that 2013s are showing up in force (at least at South Florida dealers), I'm wondering what sort of discounts I should expect? Does BMW provide special incentives to "move" the 2012 cars? Should I expect/demand below-invoice pricing?
Yes. Just had a friend here quoted $1600 under invoice for a well equipped 328i (everything besides driver assist, cold weather, & lighting package)!

Now is the time to grab the remaining 2012s!

Best strategy imo:

First, find the car you want either on the actual dealer's lot or via their website (check multiple dealers in the area if possible). Second, go to www.bmwconfig.com and punch in the *exact* config, making sure it's for a 2012 model year. Then, note the invoice price, take $2,000 off, and show up at the dealer in person. Tell them your price and that you are well aware it's $2,000 below invoice.

Done!
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      08-22-2012, 06:18 PM   #3
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I didn't do as well the above post, but the sticker on my car was $42,040 and when I negotiated the deal 3 weeks ago, I got them down to $38,555. BMWconfig's listed invoice is $38,910.
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      08-22-2012, 06:32 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbs View Post

Best strategy imo:

First, find the car you want either on the actual dealer's lot or via their website (check multiple dealers in the area if possible). Second, go to www.bmwconfig.com and punch in the *exact* config, making sure it's for a 2012 model year. Then, note the invoice price, take $2,000 off, and show up at the dealer in person. Tell them your price and that you are well aware it's $2,000 below invoice.

Done!

Good advice! Thanks for the quick response. I've been lurking for a few days in the forums and appreciate your posts and insight. If your friend was quoted $1,600 below invoice (without any negotiation, I assume!) then $2k under invoice seems quite doable.

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Originally Posted by diesel86 View Post
I didn't do as well the above post, but the sticker on my car was $42,040 and when I negotiated the deal 3 weeks ago, I got them down to $38,555. BMWconfig's listed invoice is $38,910.
Thanks for that input. I think I came across one of your posts recently discussing your deal. I suppose you just missed the arrival of the 2013s which probably hindered your negotiating power, but given the timing it seems like a pretty great deal!


One question for both of you (or anyone else for that matter): how accurate is bmwconfigurator.com? Can it be trusted to provide accurate prices? I've been using the http://www.nadaguides.com configurator so far as I was under the impression it was fairly authoritative.

Thanks again.
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      08-22-2012, 06:36 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EnerJi View Post
Good advice! Thanks for the quick response. I've been lurking for a few days in the forums and appreciate your posts and insight. If your friend was quoted $1,600 below invoice (without any negotiation, I assume!) then $2k under invoice seems quite doable.
BMWConfig.com uses actual invoice pricing from the actual BMW corporate documentation.

Nadaguides.. I have no idea what they use.

Based on recent data, shopping around, comparing the actual corporate pricing & ordering guides, I would only use bmwconfig since the features & prices literally line up 100%.

The configuration itself can be a little buggy but the numbers are correct.


.. There's this moment when the dealer realizes you have access to the same information they do, when they start to budge quite a bit... Been buying cars this way for a while now and it's very easy & pleasurable. I'd like to think it makes it easier for them as there's really no complicated sales tactics involved.


Regarding my friend & $1600 under invoice. He literally walked in there without any knowledge/info, except for the basic features & packages I told him about, and went on a test drive. That's why I suggested $2k off, because if you come across as very serious, numbers written down, ready to buy, checkbook in hand, etc. $2,000 sounds very feasible. You could probably go a bit lower tbh...
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      08-22-2012, 06:45 PM   #6
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Yeah, I was kind of in that weird middle area in between transitioning to 2013 models, but still having 2012 stock come in from South Africa. VOIP-Ninja's 2013 X-Drive has already been delivered to him and I'm still waiting on my 2012 to even get to the dealer for prep and tint. Oh yeah, I did get them to throw in free tint, which probably costs the dealer $100.

Technically, I haven't even put a deposit down, so I guess I could try to renegotiate with the dealer once the car comes in...you know, due the change in market conditions.
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      08-22-2012, 08:10 PM   #7
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South Florida dealers... that means $495 doc fee? right?
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      08-22-2012, 08:21 PM   #8
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Surprised there are 2012's hanging around. BMW and Audi have been doing so well at not having left-overs in recent years so they don't have to give big discounts. Mercedes, on the other hand, seems to hemorrhage cars so they always have inventory and give discounts, from what I've seen the last 3 or 4 years anyway.
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      08-22-2012, 09:31 PM   #9
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I'll run a few comparisons between nada and bmwconfig and see what they spit out. If I can get bmwconfig to work (being a bit wonky right now).

One dealer's website I checked (Braman BMW) says they have 7 NEW 2011 335is, 9 new 2012s, and just one 2013. It strikes me as pretty suspicious that they would have any new 2011s, let alone 7 of them, so not sure I can trust it. I might give them a call tomorrow.

Chrisny, I hope the situation is different this year! I may casually ask around tomorrow what sort of "deals" are being offered on the 2012s and see what the response is.

Speaking of fees, what's to be expected these days? A doc fee ($495 in South Florida, really?), training fee, MACO? Which of these are likely to be waived and which not?

Thanks!
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      08-24-2012, 12:19 AM   #10
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So I found a 2012 F30 that looked appealing on a dealer web site, but with no mention of the specific options/packages loaded. I had a brief call with the sales manager while I was verifying options/packages and comparing to my desired options/packages. As I hadn't figured out the invoice pricing yet I had no interest in really starting the negotiation but he probably figured I was just playing hard to get.

In the course of a 5 minute phone conversation he went from over $56k to under $52k, slightly below invoice pricing, and I'm sure there's more margin to go. This car has around 500 miles by the way, and has been used as a demo car. There's another car with very similar specs at a closer dealership that I will try to get some information on tomorrow for leverage between the two.

By the way, can anyone tell me what are reasonable or expected BMW dealer fees to expect to pay, aside from the obligatory tag/title?


As an aside, in case anyone's interested, I loaded the above car's exact config in both nadaguides.com and bmwconfig.com. MSRP for both was identical (and identical to the copy/paste of the dealer's inventory system that I was sent). Invoice price was off by $30, with bmwconfig being higher. $20 of the difference is attributable to the training fee ($180 on nadaguides and $200 on bmwconfig). Wasn't able to quickly locate the $10 remaining discrepancy.

Although bmwconfig may be more accurate, the nadaguides configurator is MUCH easier to user (it even works well from a phone browser!)
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      08-24-2012, 12:37 AM   #11
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bmwconfig usually rounds up the invoice price to the nearest $5.

In actual pricing, it is rounded up or down to the closest $5.

That's your $10 difference.
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      08-24-2012, 12:52 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EnerJi View Post
So I found a 2012 F30 that looked appealing on a dealer web site, but with no mention of the specific options/packages loaded. I had a brief call with the sales manager while I was verifying options/packages and comparing to my desired options/packages. As I hadn't figured out the invoice pricing yet I had no interest in really starting the negotiation but he probably figured I was just playing hard to get.

In the course of a 5 minute phone conversation he went from over $56k to under $52k, slightly below invoice pricing, and I'm sure there's more margin to go. This car has around 500 miles by the way, and has been used as a demo car. There's another car with very similar specs at a closer dealership that I will try to get some information on tomorrow for leverage between the two.

By the way, can anyone tell me what are reasonable or expected BMW dealer fees to expect to pay, aside from the obligatory tag/title?

As an aside, in case anyone's interested, I loaded the above car's exact config in both nadaguides.com and bmwconfig.com. MSRP for both was identical (and identical to the copy/paste of the dealer's inventory system that I was sent). Invoice price was off by $30, with bmwconfig being higher. $20 of the difference is attributable to the training fee ($180 on nadaguides and $200 on bmwconfig). Wasn't able to quickly locate the $10 remaining discrepancy.

Although bmwconfig may be more accurate, the nadaguides configurator is MUCH easier to user (it even works well from a phone browser!)
If it's a demo there has got to be a LOT more room. 500 miles is not 5 or even 50 miles.
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      08-24-2012, 05:35 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EnerJi View Post
Good advice! Thanks for the quick response. I've been lurking for a few days in the forums and appreciate your posts and insight. If your friend was quoted $1,600 below invoice (without any negotiation, I assume!) then $2k under invoice seems quite doable.



Thanks for that input. I think I came across one of your posts recently discussing your deal. I suppose you just missed the arrival of the 2013s which probably hindered your negotiating power, but given the timing it seems like a pretty great deal!


One question for both of you (or anyone else for that matter): how accurate is bmwconfigurator.com? Can it be trusted to provide accurate prices? I've been using the http://www.nadaguides.com configurator so far as I was under the impression it was fairly authoritative.

Thanks again.
For me, nada guides had the exact numbers my dealer gave me when he printed my total before taxes. Maco and everything lined up perfectly so I was pleasantly surprised. Bmwconfig was off a couple hundreds of dollars...about 3-400 I think. Hope that helps.
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      08-24-2012, 08:13 AM   #14
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If it's a demo there has got to be a LOT more room. 500 miles is not 5 or even 50 miles.
You think so? What's a reasonable discount for something like that above and beyond what an equivalent (2012) 5-mile car will command? I was thinking of offering $49k, which is over $3k under invoice, and working up from there.
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      08-24-2012, 08:16 AM   #15
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bmwconfig usually rounds up the invoice price to the nearest $5.

In actual pricing, it is rounded up or down to the closest $5.

That's your $10 difference.
Nadaguides also seemed to have everything rounded to $5, so I guess that makes sense that they may be off very slightly.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Serenitygal3 View Post
For me, nada guides had the exact numbers my dealer gave me when he printed my total before taxes. Maco and everything lined up perfectly so I was pleasantly surprised. Bmwconfig was off a couple hundreds of dollars...about 3-400 I think. Hope that helps.
Good to know, thanks! Strangely, there was no MACO included in either the nadaguides or bmwconfig configs. They both included:

Base car cost
Options cost
Training ($180-$200, listed as a line item within the Options)
Destination ($895)

MACO I would think would be one of those fees that the dealer will not waive, assuming its applicable to them?
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      08-24-2012, 09:42 AM   #16
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There were several articles out recently, that showed how BMW padded their sales numbers by selling dealers Demos at deeply discounted rates.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...359646688.html

I don't have an idea of what deeply discount mean, but I would say well below invoice. For comparison sake, I was cross shopping a 2012 Volvo T6 AWD and came across a demo at a San Diego dealership. The car was loaded up with all the options and probably stickered close to $46k. It had 470 miles on it and they were asking $36,686. Again, I realize I am BMW's and Volvos, but maybe that gives you a sense of what would be fair for that vehicle.
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      08-24-2012, 10:16 AM   #17
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Quote:
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You think so? What's a reasonable discount for something like that above and beyond what an equivalent (2012) 5-mile car will command? I was thinking of offering $49k, which is over $3k under invoice, and working up from there.
I'm thinking that's fair. Maybe even $4-5000 under invoice as a start. The fact is that it is essentially a used car. Check with service. Most demos, even if they have never been titled, will have been put into service for warranty purposes, meaning part of the warranty is gone (warranty period has started running). If that's the case, $5k under invoice is totally fair.
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      09-08-2012, 06:32 PM   #18
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Just a quick update in case anyone's interested - I found just two 2012 cars in the entire state of Florida that met my needs, and neither dealer was willing to deal. One wouldn't go lower than $2k OVER invoice (insane), and the other didn't even bother responding to my $4k under invoice offer.

Looks like I'm going to have to bite the bullet and go with a 2013, which seem to be in short supply themselves...
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      09-08-2012, 06:34 PM   #19
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Just a quick update in case anyone's interested - I found just two 2012 cars in the entire state of Florida that met my needs, and neither dealer was willing to deal. One wouldn't go lower than $2k OVER invoice (insane), and the other didn't even bother responding to my $4k under invoice offer.

Looks like I'm going to have to bite the bullet and go with a 2013, which seem to be in short supply themselves...
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      09-08-2012, 09:08 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EnerJi View Post
Just a quick update in case anyone's interested - I found just two 2012 cars in the entire state of Florida that met my needs, and neither dealer was willing to deal. One wouldn't go lower than $2k OVER invoice (insane), and the other didn't even bother responding to my $4k under invoice offer.

Looks like I'm going to have to bite the bullet and go with a 2013, which seem to be in short supply themselves...
It will be very hard to get a car 4k below invoice even if it's a 2012. I just picked up a luxury line lease on a 2012. 1k below invoice and it was the best deal in the sf bay area.
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      09-08-2012, 09:42 PM   #21
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It will be very hard to get a car 4k below invoice even if it's a 2012. I just picked up a luxury line lease on a 2012. 1k below invoice and it was the best deal in the sf bay area.
Not bad. I had seen another poster mention they had a friend who had offered $1,600 under invoice and had it accepted with NO bargaining, making me think he may have left some money on the table. Still, I wasn't expecting them to accept a $4k under invoice offer, but I expected some bargaining and to possibly settle somewhere closer to what you paid.

I've calculated my expected depreciation between a '12 and a '13, and compared it to the price over invoice that I think I could reasonably get a '13 (~$1,500 over invoice, which may be generous as many posters swear they've been successful with $500 over invoice deals), and determined that I would need to get a '12 for at least $2k under invoice (and preferably $2.5-$3k under invoice) for it to make economic sense for me to buy the '12 (given how many years I expect to keep it, etc.) Thus, $4k under invoice seemed like a reasonable opening offer.

I suppose that dealers figure that most people are not doing the kind of research or analysis that members of this forum are, and plan to hold out for someone willing to pay 2013 prices for a 2012.
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      09-09-2012, 09:48 AM   #22
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not sure if there will be a significant discount on the 2012's yet since 2013 is basically the same car. i would just buy the 2013's before they get a chance to mark up the price
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