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      08-29-2012, 09:54 AM   #89
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it looks exactly like smaller 5gt. Jesus, ugly like hell! What are they thinking.
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      08-29-2012, 09:55 AM   #90
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yikes. Hideous
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      08-29-2012, 10:04 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by MaestroAl View Post
Now nobody can argue about the looks, however, it's not a pretty car from what we've seen so far. But that's aesthetics. If people dont' like it, they won't buy it. Having said that, the Porsche Cayenne is probably the ugliest car ever made and people still bought plenty of them. If the shoe fits, people will wear it.
Ha, I'd include the Panamera in there too, which is oddly, a hatch.

The packaging of a rwd hatch will always be compromised when compared to a fwd hatch. I understand that BMW wants to sell more cars, and I think the next round of fwd cars will allow them to do this better than this pass of handicapped rwd cars forced to do mommy duty. The simple fact is that a smaller, lighter GTI/Golf is a better package for most buyers than an F20, largely due to the packaging of the car, nevermind which is more fun to drive or will do a proper power slide.

My real lament at the sight of this car, and many of the other recent BMW's is simply that as BMW grows from a mid size manufacturer focused on fun rwd cars, to being a huge company that builds a little of everything, their core product has lost some of it's former sharp edges. But I'm also a weirdo who still prefers the E36 to the E46 and largely ignored the E90 and is actively waiting for an F2x sedan or wagon (but would love a poorly packaged 5 door hatch).
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      08-29-2012, 11:11 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by Faust View Post
I expected and hoped for this to look better but sadly it turns out exactly like the 5-Series GT. The glass house is too tall, the rear is weird, the overal stance is not very dynamic. I expected more in the line of A5 Sportback but this is nothing like it. It is too family-oriented and not sporty at all...
The A5 Sportback and its bigger sibling the A7 are plenty ugly as well...
What does "too family-oriented and not sporty" means ? if it means too pratical and not let's put an ugly butt just for the sake of it then, well, let's not.

Also the 5-GT has an upgraded interior compared to the normal 5, if we get the same in the 3-GT then it will be definitely worth a look.

Personally i am split on the touring, it does have a family van feel to it. A 3-GT would have a premium feel. And perception is reality.

To be serious, i get that, americans prefer the wagon, then buy the wagon. If i end up preferring the wagon i will buy the wagon as well, else just the sedan .. or if not at least i have third option.
Choice is good
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      08-29-2012, 11:26 AM   #93
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To be serious, i get that, americans prefer the wagon, then buy the wagon. If i end up preferring the wagon i will buy the wagon as well, else just the sedan .. or if not at least i have third option.
Choice is good
I like the wagon, but in the US they don't come with an available manual, so I am stuck with a sedan. I suppose if the 3GT is available in the US with a manual, I'd consider it, provided it's not quite as hideous as the 5GT.
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      08-29-2012, 12:06 PM   #94
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Wait there is going to be a 3er GT and a 3er(4er) Grand Coupe?

This is getting more and more confusing.
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      08-29-2012, 12:10 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by cipher5 View Post
Wait there is going to be a 3er GT and a 3er(4er) Grand Coupe?

This is getting more and more confusing.

Yes, the 4 Series Gran Coupe was recently spied @ http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=732231

With the 4 Series Gran Coupe as an addition, here is a summary of the upcoming 3 Series / 4 Series lineup:
  • F30 3 Series Sedan
  • F31 3 Series Touring
  • F32 4 Series Coupe
  • F33 4 Series Convertible
  • F34 3 Series (GT) Gran Touring
  • F35 3 Series Long Wheelbase (China only)
  • F36 4 Series Gran Coupe
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      08-29-2012, 12:32 PM   #96
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The GT "concept" is also based on research into the ideal entry/egress angle. The ride height, door opening, dash arrangement are all based on that. It is a car that targets a specific demographic and while it may not be everyone's cup of tea, it is doing well enough for BMW to expand to another model line.

The interior and functionality of the GT and an appearance that does not scream SUV is just one of the things that appeal to certain buyers.

How it differentiates from the wagon is in the entry, the ride height, the more sloped roof line and the more upscale interior.

If you've ever been in the 5 GT you would admit that on many levels it is nicer to spend time in than even the 7 series. The 3 GT I am thinking will be more akin to the interior of the 5 series with a sporty 3 series exterior look.

In certain markets (like Germany and China) I see it being a huge success- considering the European market outside a few select groups are not buying cars at the moment it is a good thing BMW is targeting those that are buying cars and the GTs hit one of those demos that can buy cars and are...
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      08-29-2012, 12:49 PM   #97
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      08-29-2012, 01:18 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by MaestroAl View Post
I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be condescending. It's just that whilst I recognise this is a very Amerocentric forum, there is a world beyond America and in that world, the Hatchback is king. The drive and engine configuration is completely irrelevant. Most people don't care about that or even know what it means. What most people in the world want is a practical car and that has to be a hatchback for most people. That's why nearly everyone owns one. The fact that the 3 series makes it into the top ten Euro cars in 2012 shows what an epic job BMW have done with the platform, despite the American haters calling ASS a "tree-hugger feature with no place in a sports sedan".
As a stupid American who clearly knows nothing about cars, you've *still* failed to present a single reason why this abomination is better than the Touring.

I don't care about "brand dilution" or "this car doesn't deserve to be a BMW". People can buy whatever ugly cars they want. It doesn't lessen my enjoyment of *my* hatchback BMW when someone buys a beige X5 with a beige interior to drive their kids to preschool.

What I care about is the incessant whining that it's so *expensive* to certify a car for the US market, and there has to be a *proven demand* for a car in order for them to go to the massive expense of certifying it here. So we end up with a completely neutered model lineup, few diesels, no diesels with a stick, now no Touring with a stick, no big engines in the tourings, etc etc etc. And when this neutered product lineup doesn't sell, they "prove" to themselves that there's no market for them in the US.

And yet BMW magically "finds" the market for cars that have next-to-zero demand. They killed off the 5er Touring in the US in favor of the GT, which promptly dropped to sub-Touring sales after the first year or so, and it looks like they may well bring this 3GT to the US rather than offering a 335 touring or a 6spd 328 touring. And ultimately, neutering individual model lines ends up being a neutering of the brand. If they prioritize slightly-different-looking boringmobiles over enthusiast options, the market will follow, and pretty soon BMW won't sell anything interesting at all. Now, that's fine with me, because I am not a member of the Quandt family, but I sure as hell hope some other automaker steps in to fill the gap.

PS: More than half the cars I've owned have been hatchbacks.. hell, 2 have even been liftbacks.

PPS: I've actually *driven* a slushbox 328 with ASS, and it sucks. I fully agree that auto start stop systems are the future, and it probably wouldn't be bad in a stick, but in the slushbox I drove, the car shook quite roughly every time the engine fired up while I was still sitting at a red light with my foot on the brake.. which was about 90% of the red lights I came to. They're going to have to find a way to make the battery actually last a full red light cycle, or at least smooth out the restart process. Major kudos to BMW for offering the solution to code the car to remember the last ASS setting. That's the right fix, there -- let the customer choose.

Last edited by rconti; 08-29-2012 at 01:25 PM.
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      08-29-2012, 01:21 PM   #99
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Despite all the negatives from folks, imho, 550 GT is one of the best BMW I have ever driven as a driving experience. Way better than, X6, X5, 550i, or even 7 series. Looks aside!
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      08-29-2012, 02:38 PM   #100
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Indeed. My old man went from a Range Rover to his 5GT and the 5GT is just a nicer place to be for most of the time.

Don't forget (and I'm looking at you brainwashed, dogmatic, idiot Americans without passports here*) that just because a car doesn't conform to your preconceptions of what it should be, that doesn't make it wrong or bad, m'kay?

*Obviously this is by no means the whole country or its people, I'm just deliberately stereotyping based on some idiots on this forum who think a BMW has to look a certain way and drive a certain way to fit "their world" or it's not a BMW. And those people are all American.
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      08-29-2012, 02:54 PM   #101
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Wow! so many comments that fail to understand the purpose of the 3er GT. If I had to single one out for the Kanye West "clown" of the year award it would be this one.

Quote:
the next massively ugly car of BMW. Adrian you fool what are you doing man, open your own freaking eyes for once!!!!? The fugly 1 series, the 5 GT, the entire X crap lines, the mediocre 6-series.
The 1er is only in its second generation and is outselling the E87 in the same timeframe. Despite the failure lauded against the 5er GT did you know it is a low volume vehicle and it makes and has exceeded its 10% of overall 5er sales.
The X models are hugely successful and make up the majority of total BMW sales. The 6er is another car proving successful than the previous generation. Especially the Gran Coupe which is popular in Germany and many parts of Europe where you are looking at a few months waiting.

BMW are very much taking a more realistic view in terms of upcoming products because they identify the growth markets needed to compete in and upcoming trends that have the capacity to become an integral area of the auto industry in the future. Now is not the time for vanity but product.

In China the 5er GT is seen as a more upmarket equivalent to the 5erLi especially seen from the rear seat. The 3er Li has gone on sale and is proving to be very popular especially against its rival the Audi A4L , again the 3er GT will be the choice for a more exclusive alternative especially in a market that earlier in 2012 became BMW's largest market for the first time.

The 3er GT and 5er GT are very much euro-asia centric. I dont agree with the decision against the 5er Touring but I do understand why considering that market is dead for premium wagons in favour of SUVs.

For customers in Europe they will be able to specify their GT in Modern, Luxury and Sportline as the 3er Sedan/Touring and be abale to utilise the 320d in a more flexible option including an exclusive EfficientDynamics model.
The ride has been tailored to be very comfort-orientated and refined but with a sporting communicative edge should the driver care to exploit the car.
Those interested in a more sporting orientation will be able to specify the M-Sport Option which brings a more sporting effect to the exterior and interior.
The front end of the car differs from the standard 3er/3er Touring with a more rounded appearance and wider kidney grille, a bit like this render.

My wife has a 5er GT in 530d specification. It was an ex-fleet BMW car so it has every option and every luxury including stunning Neptune Blue paintwork.
For her , and she drives a lot of models including a company Volvo S60.
Finds the GT to be the perfect combination of comfort and luxury. She likes the driving position because it is suited for her view point , she likes the flexibility the car offers and of course its luxury. So if my wife , family or friends go out in the evening the car is a very reliable and luxurious tool for transport.

I have also visited several hotels in Europe where they have the GT as a shuttle again because of the impression the car gives from the rear seat. There are plenty of GT owners actually on this site that enjoy the car for the very same reasons and they seem to be happy with the car and how it fits within their requirements.
GT owners do not get a voice because enthusiasts and the media always drown out the pluses with negatives.
The sad thing is that most of these voices have never even tried the car for themselves.

Quote:
Of course, Bangle already messed up big time, but that is NOT an excuse to continue the massacre.
Did Bangle screw up? Seriously, think about it.
Under the design direction of Chris Bangle BMW became the worlds no 1 premium manufacturer where it remains today BMW took this title from Mercedes-Benz so it is a significant achievement.

Enthusiasts might look down on Bangle for in their own words "destroying" BMW models with upfront modern styling. But no one in Munich shares the same sentiment. Bangle was not only a pioneer of BMW design but the actual world of car design was changed by his polarizing vision that car design became a hot topic. BMW started the trend of the designer introducing the car and now everyone follows.
Adrian VanHooydunk was Bangles protege and he is the man in charge now,
But many of the Bangle proteges have also brought success to the brand.

Quote:
I just see the mazda 6-series and it looks 10 times better. What a mess we're in? And it can be avoided so easily. BMW, you make me mad with this ugly designs. The cars I love apparently have to be ugly.
I would never classify BMW's design as ugly but distinctive and individual. I know which model is a BMW because it looks like nothing else in the car park.

Quote:
Who has the e-mail address of Adrian, I so want to talk to the guy! Urgently...
And say what? There is no argument except a personal issue.
The cars still sell and Adrian has been instrumental in making sure that each BMW is individually tailored to a customers needs and individual requirements.
Something which is reflected in our global sales and position of number 1 premium manufacturer from a global perspective.
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      08-29-2012, 02:59 PM   #102
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Best post yet
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      08-29-2012, 03:45 PM   #103
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If they keep the interior quality respectable as 550GT and not trash like X1, I am all for it. Along with ride/dynamics give us motor of 6 grand coupe or 740i
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      08-29-2012, 04:33 PM   #104
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PPS: I've actually *driven* a slushbox 328 with ASS, and it sucks. I fully agree that auto start stop systems are the future, and it probably wouldn't be bad in a stick, but in the slushbox I drove, the car shook quite roughly every time the engine fired up while I was still sitting at a red light with my foot on the brake.. which was about 90% of the red lights I came to. They're going to have to find a way to make the battery actually last a full red light cycle, or at least smooth out the restart process. Major kudos to BMW for offering the solution to code the car to remember the last ASS setting. That's the right fix, there -- let the customer choose.
I liked the rest of your comment but just wanted to chime in on the reason the stop/start isn't staying a full cycle- its bc of the climate control settings. It won't allow the interior to get out of a certain range when the car is "off". Turn off the auto setting (or turn the whole thing off open the windows) and see if that sorts it out; should do it and they all do that. I will agree that BMW's use of the starter on the 4 cylinder is rough and they would have been better off stopping the engine with one cylinder in full compression/ no spark then firing the spark to start it back up when the system said to...
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      08-29-2012, 04:44 PM   #105
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My posted got deleted because I called Americans stupid?
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      08-29-2012, 04:46 PM   #106
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Dunno - I called a fair few people stupid and my posts are still there
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      08-29-2012, 05:02 PM   #107
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Hi everyone.
Scott26, in other thread (http://www.f30post.com/forums/showth...=732231&page=2) we were talking about the 4 series GC spy pics. There, you posted a sketch that for a few of us resembled this concept ( http://www.f30post.com/forums/attach...1&d=1345159501 ) .
This concetp (as far as I know) has never been shown or offcially commented about.
Do you know if it is related to the 4 Series GC or GT, maybe?

Thanks a lot for all your enlightening (and entertaining posts BTW).

Cheers!
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      08-29-2012, 05:05 PM   #108
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Surely the "other" thread is wrong? Won't the 4GC be a 3 door? I thought that was the whole point of the 4 series The pics of the 5dr hatchback have to be the 3GT

I'm only guessing but makes sense to me
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      08-29-2012, 05:06 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaestroAl
Surely the "other" thread is wrong? Won't the 4GC be a 3 door? I thought that was the whole point of the 4 series The pics of the 5dr hatchback have to be the 3GT

I'm only guessing but makes sense to me
Nope. Just like the 6 series gran coupe has four doors, so will the 4 series gran coupe.
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      08-29-2012, 05:09 PM   #110
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Oh OK. So how is the 4GC different from the 3GT then? The mind boggles. Oooohh, does the 4GC just look like a hatch but actually have a saloon boot? That might explain it
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