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      09-05-2012, 04:32 AM   #1
andrew520d
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Quality of F30?

Will be changing in new year and am thinking of trading in F10 520d for F30 330d as I do not need the space of a 5 series and think 330d will be more entertaining.
I have seen on some forums that guys are saying the quality and ambience of the 3 is no match for the 5 and was wondering if any owners of the 3 came from a 5 and what has been their findings?
I have driven the 320d and found it was pretty good, certainly more nippy and agile than my 5.
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      09-05-2012, 04:51 AM   #2
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I can't help with your specific question, but I had a 530d Touring demonstrator for a week and thought it was quite possibly the best car I've ever driven (and I've driven a few quite a bit more expensive than a 530d.

The wife convinced me I didnt need a car the size of our planet (I was hovering over that 'buy' button for days), so I thought a 3 Series 330d Touring will be same build quality, as fast, as refined .. and just a little bit smaller (boot capacity wise).

I ordered having not even sat in a 3 Series.

I'm placing a lot of faith in BMW that the same principles they apply to the 5 series, they apply to their 3 series. Mind you, I had this faith with Mercedes and I got very badly burned.

So .. BMW .. don't let me down.

Reviews I've read online about the F30 all suggest that build quality is superb, so I'm not expecting anything other than.
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      09-05-2012, 06:22 AM   #3
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A lot of people who have an E9X that have looked at an F30 have moaned about it saying "its not as good as the E9X" in terms of build quality.
When I looked at one in a dealership a few weeks ago I must say I was impressed with the build quality, certainly no worse than my E90 LCI. But much nicer looking with the newer dash and dials etc...
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      09-05-2012, 06:33 AM   #4
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A lot of people who have a <insert previous model of anything here> that have looked at a <insert current model of anything here> have moaned about it saying "its not as good as <insert what I own here>" in terms of build quality.

That's just human nature
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      09-05-2012, 07:26 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dopper99 View Post
A lot of people who have an E9X that have looked at an F30 have moaned about it saying "its not as good as the E9X" in terms of build quality.
When I looked at one in a dealership a few weeks ago I must say I was impressed with the build quality, certainly no worse than my E90 LCI. But much nicer looking with the newer dash and dials etc...
+1. If you look at the F30 vs. E90, you'll see it's more or less the same (in terms of materials used) but because the design of the F30 is far superior to the E90, you feel that is of higher quality.
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      09-05-2012, 08:27 AM   #6
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one thing I did not like was the manual parking brake.
It looks old fashioned and the transmission tunnel of the 5 is much better without having one.
Also the black panel display is an extra. The needle of the old fashioned guage is a backward step, ithink the black panel should be standard.
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      09-05-2012, 09:19 AM   #7
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Personally I feel the F30 quality is up there with the E90 models. "Touchy feely bits" may have a different tactile finish, which to some translate as a sign of quality. But whether you can say a 3-series is as good as a 5-series is more difficult. I would say the 5-series cars are better finished anyway, but build quality may be very similar, even if materials are more upmarket in some instances.

F10 vs. F30, 'different' would be my first comment, but I do feel there is a better car in the 5-series, putting cost and size aside.

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      09-05-2012, 09:53 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrew520d View Post
one thing I did not like was the manual parking brake.
It looks old fashioned and the transmission tunnel of the 5 is much better without having one.
Also the black panel display is an extra. The needle of the old fashioned guage is a backward step, ithink the black panel should be standard.
So the 5 has a black panel as standard then e.g. the mpg gauge is a graphic?

i was in a F10 520d SE yesterday - very impressed with the quality of the interior and insulated ride.
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      09-05-2012, 10:01 AM   #9
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Tell you what though, 330d M Sport 36280 vs 530d M Sport 42120

need to be pretty flush to folk out another 5800 over a 3 series. Then you got to add the options on top. I'm sure nearly 50K total cost could be easily achievable.

And as for a 535d M Sport, and eye watering 47,595 without options.
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      09-05-2012, 10:13 AM   #10
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A 5 series gives you alot more space and refinement (trading agility and performance). but the 530d's do seem really overpriced.

e.g. 530d's are not good value compared to 33,330 for a 520d M Sport (which are pretty bloody great, lets be honest as it lets you waft around still )
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      09-05-2012, 10:50 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dopper99 View Post
Tell you what though, 330d M Sport 36280 vs 530d M Sport 42120

need to be pretty flush to folk out another 5800 over a 3 series. Then you got to add the options on top. I'm sure nearly 50K total cost could be easily achievable.

And as for a 535d M Sport, and eye watering 47,595 without options.
I think the question we would have to ask is; Is the extra cost giving you extra car that equals or exceeds the 'value' comparison? I'd say yes, the 5-series is better value for money for what you get. But then again how do we set the parameters of "what makes a car"?

Would we rather spend the same money on a new 330d or a few months old 530d of same specification, with several thousand miles on it? I know which one I am in favour of.

Personally I have a problem with speccing an F31 328i touring to over 40k, with just a 4-pot engine and without SatNav. Easy to take a 3-series over 45k. You can get a lot of 'year old' 5-series for the same money, 60k+ motors.

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      09-05-2012, 10:58 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMP View Post
A 5 series gives you alot more space and refinement (trading agility and performance). but the 530d's do seem really overpriced.

e.g. 530d's are not good value compared to 33,330 for a 520d M Sport (which are pretty bloody great, lets be honest as it lets you waft around still )
I think the 520d is probably the best value BMW you can get.

The 520d was virtually the same sticker price, if not slightly cheaper, as an E90 LCI 320d, once you added the leather and other bits to bring the 320d up to similar specification. You have to say the 520d was much more of a car for the money.

I'll have to try builds for the F10 vs. F30 to see if it still applies. I'm aware BMW were pricing the 520d very competitively, to get drivers into the 5-series, as once you get them there they usually upgrade next time around.

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      09-05-2012, 11:13 AM   #13
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Over here a basic 530d msport retails at just over 70000 euro versus 52500 euro for 330d m sport so that is a big gap.
I suppose for myself, I am trying to work out whether it is better to change to another 520d with a few toys or for similar money a 330d m sport.
On the daily grind, when one is just going from A to B will I feel I would have had more comfort etc in the 5 if I go for the 3?
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      09-05-2012, 11:39 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
I think the question we would have to ask is; Is the extra cost giving you extra car that equals or exceeds the 'value' comparison? I'd say yes, the 5-series is better value for money for what you get. But then again how do we set the parameters of "what makes a car"?

Would we rather spend the same money on a new 330d or a few months old 530d of same specification, with several thousand miles on it? I know which one I am in favour of.

Personally I have a problem with speccing an F31 328i touring to over 40k, with just a 4-pot engine and without SatNav. Easy to take a 3-series over 45k. You can get a lot of 'year old' 5-series for the same money, 60k+ motors.

HighlandPete
My Auc 330d was 10 months old and I got 42% off so totally agree its the best way for value*
*unless you get a 'one off' lease on a new one like I managed to this time around

So are you not looking at another 330d Pete, rather the 328I?
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      09-05-2012, 12:02 PM   #15
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So are you not looking at another 330d Pete, rather the 328I?
The F31 328i is tempting, but I don't sit well with the new cost for what I'd like as specification. Over 45k for a well specced 330d, a nearly new F11 with lots more toys, looks to be much better use of 40k. I suppose as I did it with the E39 540i touring, and had a 50k car for used 320d money, it makes more sense.

Problem with the F31 and the lines theme, there are only a couple of specifications I'd want to put my money on as a new car. I can't see used ones coming up with my ideal specification for a good while, perhaps very rare indeed, if ever. Will be a lot of waiting and/or compromises.

If I find the right F11, I'm likely to bite.

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      09-05-2012, 03:03 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
I think the 520d is probably the best value BMW you can get.

The 520d was virtually the same sticker price, if not slightly cheaper, as an E90 LCI 320d, once you added the leather and other bits to bring the 320d up to similar specification. You have to say the 520d was much more of a car for the money.

I'll have to try builds for the F10 vs. F30 to see if it still applies. I'm aware BMW were pricing the 520d very competitively, to get drivers into the 5-series, as once you get them there they usually upgrade next time around.

HighlandPete
I had actually ordered a fairly well specced F30 but after checking with the configurator, I had to conclude that the 520d SE is a bit of a bargain so I changed my order to that. That said, they are very different cars. The F10 is much more quiet, refined and soft than the E60 I had before. The F30, in any line, seems to be more of a "driver's car than my F10 (with standard suspension).
The 8 speed AT is great in both the F30 and the F10.
Bottom line for me is that when I get into the F10 it feels like a much more expensive car and I love it. The last car that I liked so much was a 528i E39 AT but that too was a very different car.
I never really fell in love with the E60. It was just too rattley over any rough surface - too much to balance out the great handling. I never liked the manual gearbox - the change from 1st gear to 2nd gear was awful. It didn't seem to be properly tuned to the stability control and would bog down at awkward moments.
Putting aside the different driving characteristics, I think the 520d is better value for money than a 320d. I can't comment on more powerful engined variants.
Sorry for the ramble...
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      09-05-2012, 05:22 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
The F31 328i is tempting, but I don't sit well with the new cost for what I'd like as specification. Over 45k for a well specced 330d, a nearly new F11 with lots more toys, looks to be much better use of 40k. I suppose as I did it with the E39 540i touring, and had a 50k car for used 320d money, it makes more sense.

Problem with the F31 and the lines theme, there are only a couple of specifications I'd want to put my money on as a new car. I can't see used ones coming up with my ideal specification for a good while, perhaps very rare indeed, if ever. Will be a lot of waiting and/or compromises.

If I find the right F11, I'm likely to bite.

HighlandPete
Once the mgt cars hit the market, they will provide high spec, low cost AUC cars. But iirc you are probably after panoraminc roof which isn't usually ticked...
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      09-06-2012, 02:43 AM   #18
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One criteria I often use for judging a car's "value" is BHP/Tonne (after all, that's often one of the most realistic performance figures one can get). So how about this little chart ..



Taking BHP, Tonne and List Price. I worked out BHP/Tonne. I then worked out how much it costs per BHP/Tonne.

Amazingly the CHEAPEST 3 Series is the MOST EXPENSIVE on a Price/BHP/Tonne. And the most powerful 3 Series is the CHEAPEST on Price/BHP/Tonne.

Maybe its not such a good judge of value after all lol
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Last edited by andymj; 09-06-2012 at 12:22 PM.
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      09-06-2012, 05:42 AM   #19
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hard to read - maybe post as a image so it keeps in colums?

But not really sure of the value as the increased weight of the 5 has its own refinement benefits but if you are looking for a performance ratio, maybe it works
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      09-06-2012, 12:23 PM   #20
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Yeah, the formatting didnt work - so have put it as an image.
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      09-06-2012, 02:18 PM   #21
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I've only had my 330d M Sport for 8 hours but to answer your original question it is every bit as good build quality as my E60 530d M Sport, and handling and performance is in a different league! It's sooo fast - the figures are similar to what the M3 was achieving just a few years ago.

Can't say how it compares against the F10, but I really don't like the new 5 series, it looks like a truck (sorry). My advice - go F30.
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      09-06-2012, 03:17 PM   #22
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I think it will feel fast against an E60 530d. Just looking up the data and 0-62 was 6.7 (6.8 for auto) and still could not actually top 155mph.

Even the E60 535d was 0-62 in 6.3 so I think the F30 330d would feel fast against the 535d let alone the 530d.


BTW, its good to actually hear someone comment on the performance of the 330d. I was beginning to think it wasn't much cop.
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