F30POST
F30POST
2012-2015 BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum (F30 / F32) | F30POST > 2012-2019 BMW 3 and 4-Series Forums > General F30 Sedan / F32 Coupe / F36 Gran Coupe Forum > BMW 328i and ATS 2.0 Battle Again in Direct Comparo by Car and Driver
Extreme Power House
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      10-03-2012, 04:15 PM   #67
mcpcolas
First Lieutenant
mcpcolas's Avatar
United_States
5
Rep
370
Posts

 
Drives: 2009 montego blue 335i xdrive
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: new jersey

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JBasham
Caddy ATS . . . finally, a decent rental car option.
Lol (rental) anyone else caught that?
Appreciate 0
      10-03-2012, 04:56 PM   #68
edgarik
New Member
United_States
0
Rep
13
Posts

 
Drives: 328i Basic Auto
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Los angeles

iTrader: (0)

I own a 2012 328i base line all I can say is the suspension leaves a lot to be asked for. even with upgraded tires the suspension has a lot of body roll. and the steering is somewhat numb. I havent driven an ats but it seems like the ATS has better steering feel.
Appreciate 0
      10-03-2012, 05:12 PM   #69
ScarecrowBoat
Zooombie attaaack!!
ScarecrowBoat's Avatar
United_States
11
Rep
890
Posts

 
Drives: 2012 328i
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: NEB

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2012 BMW  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by edgarik View Post
I own a 2012 328i base line all I can say is the suspension leaves a lot to be asked for. even with upgraded tires the suspension has a lot of body roll. and the steering is somewhat numb. I havent driven an ats but it seems like the ATS has better steering feel.
Completely agree. I have a base line and the body roll is excessive. It has great feel, however, so I think some sway bars would help a ton. Hopefully the M3 will be out soon and we can order them!
__________________
13 Nissan 370z
08 Range Rover Sport SC
Appreciate 0
      10-03-2012, 07:04 PM   #70
alep85
Enlisted Member
1
Rep
34
Posts

 
Drives: 2009 328i Sedan
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: United States

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by niceworkbavaria View Post
Okay to be fair, it is barely any cheaper than a 3 series and is hideous inside and out. Who cares how it allegedly handles, I don't want a GM product...
That's your opinion. I think the base 328i is hideous. You have to add a line or put some M Performance parts on it before it even begins to look like a luxury sports sedan.
Appreciate 0
      10-03-2012, 08:26 PM   #71
buckeyede06
Private
buckeyede06's Avatar
United_States
2
Rep
55
Posts

 
Drives: 2013 328i XDrive Msport
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: USA, Ohio

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
No one mentions putting the car in sport mode. When I put my f30 in sport it is a whole different beast. Stiffer steering, revs higher, less lag in the pedal. Do these guys pop it in to sport?!
__________________
'13 F30 328Xi /// M-Sport l Black l Sport Tranny
Appreciate 0
      10-03-2012, 09:40 PM   #72
asus389
Lieutenant
asus389's Avatar
United_States
10
Rep
491
Posts

 
Drives: 06 E90 325i
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Michigan

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2006 BMW 325i  [0.00]
While the title of the piece might suggest otherwise, Motortrend also basically just said they like the ATS 2.0T 6MT better than the F30 328i 6MT. They gave the nod to the BMW because the F30 6MT "sucked less" than the ATS 6MT. But they said both 6MT transmissions were horrible, and on everything else the ATS was a better car.

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/09/26/m...series-versus/

Unfortunately, they are both using RFT. I guess the question will be which sucks less with with GFT.
Appreciate 0
      10-03-2012, 11:11 PM   #73
FogCityM3
Lieutenant Colonel
FogCityM3's Avatar
36
Rep
1,743
Posts

 
Drives: M3 (E90)
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: San Francisco

iTrader: (0)

From the article: "We're convinced that the E90 would HANDILY win a comparison test against the F30". Wow
Appreciate 0
      10-04-2012, 12:01 AM   #74
batislav
Private First Class
3
Rep
193
Posts

 
Drives: 2012 335i Sportline
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Ohio

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mhabs View Post
From the article: "We're convinced that the E90 would HANDILY win a comparison test against the F30". Wow
Having owned both I prefer the f30. My wife drives an e90 and she's looking forward to getting an f30. Performance and fuel economy are better. It's more comfortable while still being sporty (at least my sport line--can't speak to standard suspension) and has a more functional back seat. HUD is a great new option too.

Don't know about a track comparison, but for daily driving I vote f30, or I'd be borrowing my wife's car all the time.
Appreciate 0
      10-04-2012, 12:14 AM   #75
webdither
Lieutenant
United_States
18
Rep
578
Posts

 
Drives: 2013 335i M Sport
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Dallas/Ft. Worth, Texas

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Congratulations to Cadillac for making what appears to be a great car. However, it will take more time for me to believe in a GM product enough to actually buy it. But they are going in the right direction for sure.

I still prefer the sporty and modern look of the BMW interior and the aggressive and much more interesting exterior styling. I will admit to not caring much for the F30 exterior initially but the M Sport package really nailed it to me and blows the boring Caddy design language away.

All just my opinion of course
__________________
2014 M235i | July 2nd Euro Delivery | Manual | Estoril Blue / Terra | Tech, Premium, HK Audio, & Driver Assist | M Performance Exhaust, Stainless Steel Pedals, Black Kidney Grilles

Euro Delivery Trip Report
Appreciate 0
      10-04-2012, 12:17 AM   #76
justinnum1
Brigadier General
63
Rep
4,007
Posts

 
Drives: 2013 335i Msport
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: South Florida

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by webdither View Post
Congratulations to Cadillac for making what appears to be a great car. However, it will take more time for me to believe in a GM product enough to actually buy it. But they are going in the right direction for sure.

I still prefer the sporty and modern look of the BMW interior and the aggressive and much more interesting exterior styling. I will admit to not caring much for the F30 exterior initially but the M Sport package really nailed it to me and blows the boring Caddy design language away.

All just my opinion of course
the msport makes the ats look 5 years old. doesnt help that it looks just like the cts, which itself is approaching 10 years old...
__________________
F30 335i Msport Estoril Blue/Black leather sport auto. black grills, Performance Exhaust, HK,
Appreciate 0
      10-04-2012, 06:27 AM   #77
sean10mm
Private First Class
sean10mm's Avatar
United_States
1
Rep
195
Posts

 
Drives: '13 335i xDrive 6MT ZDH
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

I seriously considered an ATS but 2 things killed it for me:

1) The styling

This is obviously super-subjective so I won't dwell on it. Credit Cadillac for having a distinctive identity now beyond sticking big badges everywhere, but it does not work for me. The F30 is no great shakes here though, it's kind of boring.

2) Worse transmissions

6 speed auto vs. 8 speed, and more importantly for me no manual with the top Cadillac engine. A big engine AWD ATS with a 6MT might have won me over in spite of the looks.

GM did an amazing job closing the gap though. "LOL GM" doesn't apply anymore. Even Top Gear had to admit the ZR-1 Corvette was godlike, their basic cars are way better now and Cadillac has gained 100 IQ points while nobody was paying attention.
Appreciate 0
      10-04-2012, 10:07 AM   #78
Showtyme5
New Member
0
Rep
11
Posts

 
Drives: VW Golf
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: United States

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sean10mm View Post
I seriously considered an ATS but 2 things killed it for me:

1) The styling

This is obviously super-subjective so I won't dwell on it. Credit Cadillac for having a distinctive identity now beyond sticking big badges everywhere, but it does not work for me. The F30 is no great shakes here though, it's kind of boring.

2) Worse transmissions

6 speed auto vs. 8 speed, and more importantly for me no manual with the top Cadillac engine. A big engine AWD ATS with a 6MT might have won me over in spite of the looks.

GM did an amazing job closing the gap though. "LOL GM" doesn't apply anymore. Even Top Gear had to admit the ZR-1 Corvette was godlike, their basic cars are way better now and Cadillac has gained 100 IQ points while nobody was paying attention.

Agreed
Appreciate 0
      10-04-2012, 01:23 PM   #79
JasonNW
Private First Class
JasonNW's Avatar
1
Rep
113
Posts

 
Drives: 2011 Z4 35i
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Kirkland, WA

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScarecrowBoat View Post
Completely agree. I have a base line and the body roll is excessive. It has great feel, however, so I think some sway bars would help a ton. Hopefully the M3 will be out soon and we can order them!
Interesting, I was just in a new 328i Sport Line as a loaner car, and I didn't feel that way at all. I wonder if the sports suspension in the Sport Line makes that big of a difference -- I assumed it was some minor change.

Granted, I didn't push the car too hard, but I did give it a couple of spirited runs. I actually walked away feeling that I would seriously consider trading me Z4 for one...
Appreciate 0
      10-04-2012, 05:26 PM   #80
ScarecrowBoat
Zooombie attaaack!!
ScarecrowBoat's Avatar
United_States
11
Rep
890
Posts

 
Drives: 2012 328i
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: NEB

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2012 BMW  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonNW View Post
Interesting, I was just in a new 328i Sport Line as a loaner car, and I didn't feel that way at all. I wonder if the sports suspension in the Sport Line makes that big of a difference -- I assumed it was some minor change.

Granted, I didn't push the car too hard, but I did give it a couple of spirited runs. I actually walked away feeling that I would seriously consider trading me Z4 for one...
Hmm I have only driven the base line on a test drive and now mine. I get some major brake dive and pretty noticeable body roll...

Perhaps a better suspension is actually warranted? I guess I don't really mind it much with DD but I do occasional track days so I may really consider something to beef it up.

I am still on stock tires as I have only had the car for 5 days, but once my new tires get here next week maybe I'll have a better feel for what it really needs.
__________________
13 Nissan 370z
08 Range Rover Sport SC
Appreciate 0
      10-04-2012, 08:05 PM   #81
tuned2ride
First Lieutenant
10
Rep
365
Posts

 
Drives: E90
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Hell

iTrader: (0)

What's most missing in the equation is the engine sound.

I would be pissed off to replace my Bimmer with a new 50K$ one and the sound of a Civic.

As for the Caddy it has no chance. The original CTS was a direct hit to the 3-series and it survived only because it got bigger enough to effectively replace the STS.

The C&D's Caddy 2.0T gets a very lame 19mpg. If Caddy would have put a 2.5-3.0L direct injected V6 instead of that 2.0Toy I would be more impressed.
Appreciate 0
      10-04-2012, 08:13 PM   #82
ric124
Lieutenant Colonel
ric124's Avatar
Jamaica
28
Rep
1,556
Posts

 
Drives: F30 335i SP 6MT
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: South Florida

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScarecrowBoat
Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonNW View Post
Interesting, I was just in a new 328i Sport Line as a loaner car, and I didn't feel that way at all. I wonder if the sports suspension in the Sport Line makes that big of a difference -- I assumed it was some minor change.

Granted, I didn't push the car too hard, but I did give it a couple of spirited runs. I actually walked away feeling that I would seriously consider trading me Z4 for one...
Hmm I have only driven the base line on a test drive and now mine. I get some major brake dive and pretty noticeable body roll...

Perhaps a better suspension is actually warranted? I guess I don't really mind it much with DD but I do occasional track days so I may really consider something to beef it up.

I am still on stock tires as I have only had the car for 5 days, but once my new tires get here next week maybe I'll have a better feel for what it really needs.
I don't know about other modes but when I drive hard I use sport mode and I have no brake dive. I also have a sport line.
__________________
Timeline: 335i Sport W/ Adaptive M suspension| Sport Variable steering| Technology PKG| HK Sound PKG| BMW apps| BMW Assist| Sport line hand brake grip| M Performance black kidneys|
Appreciate 0
      10-04-2012, 09:35 PM   #83
Elk
Major
12
Rep
1,275
Posts

 
Drives: 2012 335i
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: *

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ric124 View Post
I don't know about other modes but when I drive hard I use sport mode and I have no brake dive.


Sorry, Ric, but the car exhibits significant brake dive, regardless of line, options and mode engaged. It does great as a heavy luxury sedan with some sporting pretensions and its behavior is perfectly reasonable however.
Appreciate 0
      10-04-2012, 10:16 PM   #84
edgarik
New Member
United_States
0
Rep
13
Posts

 
Drives: 328i Basic Auto
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Los angeles

iTrader: (0)

I really regret not getting sport line. My old VW CC has same or less body roll than the 328i.
I just replaced the tires with summer tires and the difference is phenomenal.
Appreciate 0
      10-04-2012, 10:28 PM   #85
ric124
Lieutenant Colonel
ric124's Avatar
Jamaica
28
Rep
1,556
Posts

 
Drives: F30 335i SP 6MT
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: South Florida

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by ric124 View Post
I don't know about other modes but when I drive hard I use sport mode and I have no brake dive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elk



Sorry, Ric, but the car exhibits significant brake dive, regardless of line, options and mode engaged. It does great as a heavy luxury sedan with some sporting pretensions and its behavior is perfectly reasonable however.
I really don't have any big brake dive but I will add I never did drive the car hard on the stock springs. I changed out to H&R the week I got my car. So I'm running adaptive M with h&r
__________________
Timeline: 335i Sport W/ Adaptive M suspension| Sport Variable steering| Technology PKG| HK Sound PKG| BMW apps| BMW Assist| Sport line hand brake grip| M Performance black kidneys|
Appreciate 0
      10-04-2012, 11:11 PM   #86
batislav
Private First Class
3
Rep
193
Posts

 
Drives: 2012 335i Sportline
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Ohio

iTrader: (0)

another review, not sure if anyone posted it yet:

http://www.edmunds.com/cadillac/ats/...oad-test1.html
Appreciate 0
      10-05-2012, 09:54 AM   #87
Jamesons Viggen
Brigadier General
United_States
51
Rep
3,576
Posts

 
Drives: '98 M Roadster stg 2+ S/C
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Rochester Hills MI

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tuned2ride View Post
What's most missing in the equation is the engine sound.

I would be pissed off to replace my Bimmer with a new 50K$ one and the sound of a Civic.
LOL.

Have you driven one?

Just because it has 4 cylinders does not mean it sounds like a Civic.

If anything, there is an absence of sound.

This will be remedied by the exhaust being developed on my car next week.
__________________
'98 M Roadster S/C @11-16ps
'06 Saab 9-5 wagon 5mt Aero+ Tuned
Appreciate 0
      10-05-2012, 11:41 AM   #88
thebuddha
New Member
United_States
0
Rep
22
Posts

 
Drives: 2008 e92 328i
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Stamford, CT

iTrader: (1)

@tuned2ride
I don't think GM has that engine on hand yet to stuff into the ATS. They did stuff the 3.6 V6 in it already.

@acorradi87
Yes, it seems EPS is here to stay, though it seems as though BMW is starting to get it right. I believe the 5 series was the first to get it, and after having one as a loaner while my E92 was getting serviced I can officially say it was horrendous - the steering was better on an Accord or Camry. However the F30 seems to be much improved, Porsche's first EPS iterations seem to be getting good reviews and the BRZ/FT86 has been getting RAVE reviews with EPS. Here's hoping they can tune it correctly for the next M-series, and integrate those algorithms when they have an LCI.

As for the engines in the ATS, yes they are decent but not world beaters. I'm currently driving a Camaro for a rental, and it has the same 3.6 V6 that the premium ATS gets, and while it's a powerful engine it's also a guzzler - EPA is 17/28, and driving the exact same route and style as I drove my E92 I get roughly 3-4 MPG less when the E92 which is rated at 18/28. It seems like BMW has a pretty big head start on maximizing turbos for fuel efficiency and power ever since the N54 and GM needs to play catch up.

That said, it seems GM only ok'd the R&D budget for suspension, chassis and steering, and surprisingly the Caddy team hit those out of the park. Here's hoping that they can sell more than a few ATS's and get GM to cough up for redoing the transmission and engine, as competition can only help force the hand of BMW to build a better product. Either that or maybe someone like Jag could come out of nowhere, since it seems like there's a building group of enthusiast type drivers who bemoan the dulling of the 3-series.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:13 PM.




f30post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST