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BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum (F30 / F32) | F30POST > Technical Forums > N20, N26, B46, B48 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > JB4 Logs, can someone help?
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      06-04-2017, 12:57 PM   #1
enchilada
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JB4 Logs, can someone help?

Hey all,

I was wondering if someone could check my data logs to see if everything seems okay? I couldn't really do 40-100mph runs here in congested NorCal, but there are two 3rd gear pulls that hopefully can help.

Please see the below for why I am asking for help:

http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1390745

LOGS:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7...VIyMGtKZFBjbzA

Thanks!
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      06-08-2017, 06:11 PM   #2
D041987
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Looking at the Log, your car is dangerously Lean from the start of your pull with 100% throttle. 3500 RPM to 5500 RPM starting from 15.9 AFR and scaling down to 13.9. This is why your car seems to want to pull hard in the lower range because a lean mixture produces more power but is not safe for the motor! When the AFR actually gets down to the mid 13.5's (Somewhat of a danger zone still) is from 5300 to the end of your run at 6300RPM you feel lest power because the AFR is not leaned out but is close to the right operational range for power and safety of the motor.

Great example of how a piggy back creates it's power and we have blown engines due to lean conditions in the mid range! Get a Real ECU tune and you will have Safe AFR range and will have the right AFR and Fuel trims to protect the motor and make better power in the entire RPM band.

Last edited by D041987; 07-17-2017 at 05:36 PM.
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      06-08-2017, 06:22 PM   #3
enchilada
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Well that is something to be concerned about! :O

I have additional logs here, do you mind comparing them? This time separated with Map 5 and Map 1. I'm ready to pull this JB4 out (especially since I am moving back to MI from CA, don't want anything happening anywhere in between - I'd hate to breakdown in the middle of Wyoming!

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7...VIyMGtKZFBjbzA

Thanks! Anyone else have input on this? Anything I can do to fix this while still sticking with the JB4?
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      06-08-2017, 08:20 PM   #4
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I recommend you send the logs to BMS technical support
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      06-09-2017, 11:13 AM   #5
enchilada
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I am speaking w/ Steve from BMS. He instructed me to set everything to default per http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15536, and then run logs in 3rd/4th gear 2k-redline. Will keep you all posted.

Right now, I've switched to Map 4, less any testing Steve asks of me - to be safe.
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      06-09-2017, 02:12 PM   #6
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Remember when I said that the JB4 is a shotty product?
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      06-09-2017, 02:18 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LaCross View Post
Remember when I said that the JB4 is a shotty product?
I don't actually. Lol. When was that?
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      06-09-2017, 02:38 PM   #8
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So in reality our tune for the N20 in stock form is already leaned out a lot from BMW as with any platform a 12.5:1 ratio to 11.5:1 under full boost is the prime spot to get power and be safe on the motor with having the right fuel trim and reduce knocking and correct egt (Exhaust Gas Temp) when under full boost. And usually around 15:1 to 16:1 is cruising AFR under steady pedal.

Your Logs from Latest folder for 4th gear seem the same as previous log, starting in mid 15 and tapering down to mid 13's at 6300 RPM.

Can you do a run in 4th gear with the JB4 off and just log the stock tune to show the stock fuel trims to compare? I bet they will be in the 12.5:1 range or close to it when under 100% throttle.

Also I noticed you had MethPSI set to 6. Are you running Meth injection? The Logs are lacking a little but I also see your car pulling timing almost 4 degrees at some points if I am reading the graph correct going from 4.1 and retarding down to 0 in some cases in the mid range. Not horrible but still a lot of timing being pulling if the graph is laid out by that factor.

Last edited by D041987; 06-09-2017 at 03:09 PM.
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      06-09-2017, 02:47 PM   #9
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Quick little info on turbo and AFR and why lean makes more power but is dangerous.

When discussing engine tuning the 'Air/Fuel Ratio' (AFR) is one of the main topics. Proper AFR calibration is critical to performance and durability of the engine and it's components. The AFR defines the ratio of the amount of air consumed by the engine compared to the amount of fuel.

A 'Stoichiometric' AFR has the correct amount of air and fuel to produce a chemically complete combustion event. For gasoline engines, the stoichiometric, A/F ratio is 14.7:1, which means 14.7 parts of air to one part of fuel. The stoichiometric AFR depends on fuel type-- for alcohol it is 6.4:1 and 14.5:1 for diesel.

So what is meant by a rich or lean AFR? A lower AFR number contains less air than the 14.7:1 stoichiometric AFR, therefore it is a richer mixture. Conversely, a higher AFR number contains more air and therefore it is a leaner mixture.

For Example:
15.0:1 = Lean
14.7:1 = Stoichiometric (PRIME AFR)
13.0:1 = Rich

Leaner AFR results in higher temperatures as the mixture is combusted. Generally, normally-aspirated spark-ignition (SI) gasoline engines produce maximum power just slightly rich of stoichiometric. However, in practice it is kept between 12:1 and 13:1 in order to keep exhaust gas temperatures in check and to account for variances in fuel quality. This is a realistic full-load AFR on a normally-aspirated engine but can be dangerously lean with a highly-boosted engine.

Let's take a closer look. As the air-fuel mixture is ignited by the spark plug, a flame front propagates from the spark plug. The now-burning mixture raises the cylinder pressure and temperature, peaking at some point in the combustion process.

The turbocharger increases the density of the air resulting in a denser mixture. The denser mixture raises the peak cylinder pressure, therefore increasing the probability of knock. As the AFR is leaned out, the temperature of the burning gases increases, which also increases the probability of knock. This is why it is imperative to run richer AFR on a boosted engine at full load. Doing so will reduce the likelihood of knock, and will also keep temperatures under control. So in practice a 11.5:1 to 12.5:1 are ideal AFR ranges for turbocharged engines under full-load.

There are actually three ways to reduce the probability of knock at full load on a turbocharged engine: reduce boost, adjust the AFR to richer mixture, and retard ignition timing. These three parameters need to be optimized together to yield the highest reliable power.

Now if you want most power it is safer to run a bigger turbo on our cars which will result in much better flow and also less stress/PSI and will give a higher range of safety margin which is why Dinan and Pure turbos can run around in the 350HP range and not have issues once tuned well.

Hope this gives everyone a good understanding of how an engine's AFR are related to turbo charging and N/A cars.

Last edited by D041987; 06-09-2017 at 04:33 PM.
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      06-09-2017, 02:48 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LaCross View Post
Remember when I said that the JB4 is a shotty product?
Its so shitty it outsells all the tunes combined and holds all the records while still being the cheapest one with the most options
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      06-10-2017, 04:58 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com View Post
Its so shitty it outsells all the tunes combined and holds all the records while still being the cheapest one with the most options
Wouldn't be the first time you've pushed junk products to make sales
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      06-10-2017, 07:23 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LaCross View Post
Wouldn't be the first time you've pushed junk products to make sales
You made a comment about the Jb4
I replied with data and facts
you replied with a personal insult while completely ignoring the JB4 post
Classy

Oh and by the way, your reply does not make any sense.
If you are going to be a troll, at least be good at it.

Last edited by mike@x-ph.com; 06-10-2017 at 07:29 PM.
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      06-10-2017, 08:57 PM   #13
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You made a post replying to me calling the JB4 a shotty product by stating the the product sells well, this implies that you are saying the product is not shotty, simply because it "sells well".

I did not make a personal insult, I only pointed out your activities. If my post did not make sense, perhaps you need to work on your reading comprehension skills.
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      06-10-2017, 09:06 PM   #14
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@op , dump that over-priced voltage regulator and get an ecu tune, your problems will dissapear
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      06-10-2017, 09:33 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LaCross View Post
You made a post replying to me calling the JB4 a shotty product by stating the the product sells well, this implies that you are saying the product is not shotty, simply because it "sells well".
You missed the part where i also point out how this shitty tune holds all the records. Add to it more features than any other tune out there.

That being said, it is clear to me now that you are a troll and this is not a serious conversation.

OP,
Please keep us updated with how the issue gets resolved.
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      06-11-2017, 10:37 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com View Post
You missed the part where i also point out how this shitty tune holds all the records. Add to it more features than any other tune out there.
Only at the cost of your engine
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      06-11-2017, 10:28 PM   #17
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I've decided to remove the JB4 all together and stay on stock power. There were specific reasons why I chose the 320i:

1) It's my first foray into German cars, and BMW has been a dream brand of mine. Entry-level made sense to me.
2) I could have easily purchased a 340i, but the purpose of this vehicle was to be a stylish commuter that was cheaper to insure.
3) I like that my CPO had the options that I would have equipped it with had I customized it myself (less the lighting package... dangit!).
4) I DESPERATELY wanted out of my Toyota Yaris LE.

As you can see, I didn't mention power or speed anywhere in my list. I realized that I am no longer aligned with my original intentions for this car. I want this vehicle to serve me for years to come. I think I was attracted to how easily the JB4 could give me power, but I've realized that the potential pitfalls associated with this (any) tune are not congruent with my risk-tolerance. I will look for a different car to wrench on (NA Miata, S2K, 350z, etc.).

That being said, it will be up for sale soon. If you need one, browse the classifieds during the next few weeks.
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      06-12-2017, 10:31 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enchilada View Post
I've decided to remove the JB4 all together and stay on stock power. There were specific reasons why I chose the 320i:

1) It's my first foray into German cars, and BMW has been a dream brand of mine. Entry-level made sense to me.
2) I could have easily purchased a 340i, but the purpose of this vehicle was to be a stylish commuter that was cheaper to insure.
3) I like that my CPO had the options that I would have equipped it with had I customized it myself (less the lighting package... dangit!).
4) I DESPERATELY wanted out of my Toyota Yaris LE.

As you can see, I didn't mention power or speed anywhere in my list. I realized that I am no longer aligned with my original intentions for this car. I want this vehicle to serve me for years to come. I think I was attracted to how easily the JB4 could give me power, but I've realized that the potential pitfalls associated with this (any) tune are not congruent with my risk-tolerance. I will look for a different car to wrench on (NA Miata, S2K, 350z, etc.).

That being said, it will be up for sale soon. If you need one, browse the classifieds during the next few weeks.
I only managed to did a third gear pull using the (very new) bluetooth kit. 320i on jb4 map 5 with catted ER D/P and Eisenmann Quad.

I always thought map 5 has the auto tune function and will react accordingly to the engine. Can do a few more runs on different gears and also with map4. Will take some time though, as will need to find some open road to do it safely

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      06-12-2017, 02:20 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by liveevil View Post
I only managed to did a third gear pull using the (very new) bluetooth kit. 320i on jb4 map 5 with catted ER D/P and Eisenmann Quad.

I always thought map 5 has the auto tune function and will react accordingly to the engine. Can do a few more runs on different gears and also with map4. Will take some time though, as will need to find some open road to do it safely

Thanks! I'm sure I will return to the JB4 if ever I get a second car or decide not to be a wimp. I think the additional logs will help me compare and also help others, too.
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      06-12-2017, 08:52 PM   #20
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Let me do a few runs and post it here for comparison. I used ron98 (or 93 equivalent in USA), and its 32-35degrees (~90farenheit) all year round.

Why don't you run in map4/0 in the meanwhile?

I also just downloaded your logs and can do a comparison then. A quick look seems to suggest that your boost are peaking around 17psi regardless of maps. AFR seems to be higher than the single run I did above.

Last edited by liveevil; 06-12-2017 at 09:07 PM.
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      06-13-2017, 12:40 PM   #21
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Here it goes. Car is n20 320i ewg with ER catted DP and Eisenmann quads). Can feel the significant difference in map4.

On map 5, max psi around 15-17 (but can hold around 17)
On map 4, max psi around 8-10 (spiking up and down)
The afr seems to be similar for both.

Map 5 - third gear pull


Map 4 - third gear pull but car downshift to second


Map 4 - third gear pull at higher rpm but car downshift to second again
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      06-13-2017, 01:49 PM   #22
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Yeah that graphs don't really do anything. You need to post the log files like the OP has to really get a good understanding of where the plots are.
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