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      10-06-2012, 05:25 PM   #23
justinnum1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PGT View Post
Did you drive a '13? They finally put the 3.0T and Steptronic 7sp in it (the Cabrio had it from the start). The 4.2L/Tiptronic 5sp was not as compelling, to me. I also drove the manual transmission version of the V8 and didn't like it much back in 2010. I ended up buying a MB E550 Coupe instead.
I test drove the 2013 3.0t. pretty sure t had the DSG. whatever it was it wasn't as good as the ZF sport
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      10-06-2012, 05:49 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by iwannabimmer View Post
Nice review. Sounds like you had good time in the ATS. But as far as I'm aware, this car doesn't share any parts with the Chevy Cruze or any Buick. You said the steering felt more direct than the F30, how about the handling? Is it better? Ride?
I will answer the questions first: I didn't really get to test handling per se. Too much traffic and the sales guy came with me and he didn't seem too adventurous. I can tell you that I took an off-ramp at a pretty good speed and felt I could have taken it a lot faster. Also, the seats were very supportive in that instance and the body didn't roll at all. But I didn't get to push it the way I'd have liked. I really did love the steering feel. There is no dead zone around "12 o'clock". If you're at 11:59 or 12:01, you know it, but it's not annoying or jittery.

Ride-wise it absorbs bumps well but not in a floaty taxicab way you might expect from a Caddy. I guess it handled the road conditions in a "BMW-esque" manner. It's quiet unless you're hard on the throttle. The seats are definitely
as good as the 3 series.

On to the design similarities: I will show you what I mean in pictures.

This is the interior of the ATS. Forget the ugly leather and look at the steering wheel, the center stack, and the placement/shape of the air vents beside the center stack:



Now have a look below. This is a 2012 Buick Verano. It is the smallest Buick. The ATS is the smallest Cadillac. They are both very similar in size. Note the shape and accenting of the steering wheel, the placement of the vents and the shape of the stack:



Now I know you might just say it is the design philosophy GM is using and it carries over into different brands. That might be true. But the car I drove is $2700 less than the BMW I want and in a BMW I know there's no car other than a BMW that looks like that. The problem I have always had with Lexus, Infiniti, Cadillac and Audi is that if you take the emblems off, it's just a "nicer Toyota/Nissan/VW". For the premium we pay for luxury brands, the level of similarity that allows me to legitimately be able to say that is frustrating.
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      10-06-2012, 05:59 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtuds View Post
I will answer the questions first: I didn't really get to test handling per se. Too much traffic and the sales guy came with me and he didn't seem too adventurous. I can tell you that I took an off-ramp at a pretty good speed and felt I could have taken it a lot faster. Also, the seats were very supportive in that instance and the body didn't roll at all. But I didn't get to push it the way I'd have liked. I really did love the steering feel. There is no dead zone around "12 o'clock". If you're at 11:59 or 12:01, you know it, but it's not annoying or jittery.

Ride-wise it absorbs bumps well but not in a floaty taxicab way you might expect from a Caddy. I guess it handled the road conditions in a "BMW-esque" manner. It's quiet unless you're hard on the throttle. The seats are definitely
as good as the 3 series.

On to the design similarities: I will show you what I mean in pictures.

This is the interior of the ATS. Forget the ugly leather and look at the steering wheel, the center stack, and the placement/shape of the air vents beside the center stack:



Now have a look below. This is a 2012 Buick Verano. It is the smallest Buick. The ATS is the smallest Cadillac. They are both very similar in size. Note the shape and accenting of the steering wheel, the placement of the vents and the shape of the stack:



Now I know you might just say it is the design philosophy GM is using and it carries over into different brands. That might be true. But the car I drove is $2700 less than the BMW I want and in a BMW I know there's no car other than a BMW that looks like that. The problem I have always had with Lexus, Infiniti, Cadillac and Audi is that if you take the emblems off, it's just a "nicer Toyota/Nissan/VW". For the premium we pay for luxury brands, the level of similarity that allows me to legitimately be able to say that is frustrating.
that looks to similar, and not in a good way.
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      10-06-2012, 05:59 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justinnum1 View Post
I test drove the 2013 3.0t. pretty sure t had the DSG. whatever it was it wasn't as good as the ZF sport
its not the DSG. Its call "S Tronic". I drove it back to back with an M3 DCT and they weren't in the same league. S Tronic is better than the Tiptronic the V8 got but its not in the same league as the DCT or the ZF 8HP variants.

edit - looks like I'm wrong. S Tronic and DSG are the same gearbox, but different marketing names. Doh
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      10-06-2012, 06:04 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PGT View Post
its not the DSG. Its call "S Tronic". I drove it back to back with an M3 DCT and they weren't in the same league. S Tronic is better than the Tiptronic the V8 got but its not in the same league as the DCT or the ZF 8HP variants.

edit - looks like I'm wrong. S Tronic and DSG are the same gearbox, but different marketing names. Doh
I was calling it the wrong thing, from auid's site
Quote:
S tronic, the Audi revolutionary direct shift gearbox (formerly DSG) combines the advantages of a conventional six-speed manual-shift gearbox with the qualities possessed by a modern automatic transmission. The driver enjoys immense agility and driving pleasure with, at the same time, smooth, dynamic acceleration with no interruption to the power flow.

The technical basis of the S tronic is a double clutch. This consists of two wet plate-type clutches with hydraulically regulated contact pressure. One of the two clutches engages the odd-numbered, the other the even-numbered gears. This principle enables gear shifts to be made without interrupting the power flow and keeps the shift times extremely short. While the first clutch is transmitting the power, the second clutch is ready to engage the next gear, which is preselected. When the driver makes the gear shift, the first clutch is released and the second engages, so that the gear shift takes place in a fraction of a second.

The driver can operate the S tronic manually or allow changes to take place automatically. In the automatic mode there is a choice between the well-balanced, comfortable standard shift settings and a program with greater sports emphasis. Manual shifts are made either at the gear lever or at shift paddles
Anyways, i wasn't impressed. ZF8 sport>stronic

Just saw your edit^, yea, some marketing bs lol
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      10-06-2012, 06:14 PM   #28
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I think with a few refinements and the addition of the ATS-V, the new Caddy might equal the 3-series in the reviews because both cars make trade-offs but are better than the other in certain respects. It's kinda interesting how Caddy is offering drivers some of the things people gripe about in the new BMWs. It's a sure departure from what Cadillac is known for.

Maybe the "best entry level luxury sedan" crown will end up shared. Maybe this will cause Merc, Lexus, and Audi to up their games. Whatever happens, it's not a bad thing that the ATS is a good car. I hope the price isn't a deterrent. It's in the first year of release and it's the second or third most expensive car in the segment, in Canada anyway.
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      10-06-2012, 06:21 PM   #29
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My issues with the ATS.
-Engine. Personally not a fan of V-6's. I dont find them very smooth and from what it sounds like the V-6 in the ATS is a gas guzzler.
-Styling, this one is completely subjective but for some it could be a deal breaker, looks on a car are important to me, not everything since how the car drives is most important but i personally am not a fan of the styling.
-Automatic transmission. After owning the ZF8 sport for 6 months i can confidently say no automatic transmission on the market is as good.
-I have heard great things about the handling, and am not surprised that it handles better than the F30(tires have something to do with that)
-Not a fan at all of the cue system, i'm not even a fan of idrive, i prefer buttons for each task(which the f30 pretty much has). some have said the response of the touchscreen is slow and what not.

Looking forward to see what more members thing of it.
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      10-06-2012, 06:28 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtuds View Post
I will answer the questions first: I didn't really get to test handling per se. Too much traffic and the sales guy came with me and he didn't seem too adventurous. I can tell you that I took an off-ramp at a pretty good speed and felt I could have taken it a lot faster. Also, the seats were very supportive in that instance and the body didn't roll at all. But I didn't get to push it the way I'd have liked. I really did love the steering feel. There is no dead zone around "12 o'clock". If you're at 11:59 or 12:01, you know it, but it's not annoying or jittery.

Ride-wise it absorbs bumps well but not in a floaty taxicab way you might expect from a Caddy. I guess it handled the road conditions in a "BMW-esque" manner. It's quiet unless you're hard on the throttle. The seats are definitely
as good as the 3 series.

On to the design similarities: I will show you what I mean in pictures.

This is the interior of the ATS. Forget the ugly leather and look at the steering wheel, the center stack, and the placement/shape of the air vents beside the center stack:



Now have a look below. This is a 2012 Buick Verano. It is the smallest Buick. The ATS is the smallest Cadillac. They are both very similar in size. Note the shape and accenting of the steering wheel, the placement of the vents and the shape of the stack:



Now I know you might just say it is the design philosophy GM is using and it carries over into different brands. That might be true. But the car I drove is $2700 less than the BMW I want and in a BMW I know there's no car other than a BMW that looks like that. The problem I have always had with Lexus, Infiniti, Cadillac and Audi is that if you take the emblems off, it's just a "nicer Toyota/Nissan/VW". For the premium we pay for luxury brands, the level of similarity that allows me to legitimately be able to say that is frustrating.
I see what you mean with these pictures and I agree. It looks too similar, but still in the ATS it is done in more luxurious way. Does the ATS feel more luxurious than the F30 to you, the interior I mean? I ask because from looking at pictures I get that feeling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtuds View Post
I think with a few refinements and the addition of the ATS-V, the new Caddy might equal the 3-series in the reviews because both cars make trade-offs but are better than the other in certain respects. It's kinda interesting how Caddy is offering drivers some of the things people gripe about in the new BMWs. It's a sure departure from what Cadillac is known for.

Maybe the "best entry level luxury sedan" crown will end up shared. Maybe this will cause Merc, Lexus, and Audi to up their games. Whatever happens, it's not a bad thing that the ATS is a good car. I hope the price isn't a deterrent. It's in the first year of release and it's the second or third most expensive car in the segment, in Canada anyway.
I believe the Caddy with this ATS will push BMW (and the others) to definitely step up their game. We will see what Infinity does with the re-design of the G37. Same for Lexus with the IS350/250.
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      10-06-2012, 08:27 PM   #31
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Also, another thing about the S5, and it stuck out to me the second i got in the car, the accelerator placement. They mount it from up high like a mini van lol, instead of on the floor like a sports car where it's supposed to be. I just thought it felt and looked so cheap and tacky.
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      10-06-2012, 08:43 PM   #32
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They mount it from up high like a mini van lol
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      10-06-2012, 08:47 PM   #33
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vs.


Now thats the 2012 s5, the new one has a different steering wheel but pedals are identical. lol
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      10-07-2012, 03:25 AM   #34
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2013 -Audi A4 fwd. Very disappointed with this car. Acceleration was sub-par to everything else I drove, including the Passat. And I felt the interior was pretty boring. Maybe I should drive an S4 to be fair but the base no-line 3 series is far ahead of this car.

2011 328i. I drove this car for 6 weeks while I waited on my F30 328i. It reminded me of why I HAD to get a 335i in 2007, the engine just doesn't do it for me. The new N20 owns it IMO.

2012 BMW 528i - Boring, did not like the driving experience in this car.

2013 BMW X1 35i M-sport - This car is based on the E90 wagon, so its not as refined as the F30 and has a different seating position (you are right up on the windshield) but overall pretty fun to drive. Good choice if looking for a small CUV.

2012 Mercedes C250 Sport - This one surprised me. Its an older model so its not as refined as the new F30, and not as fast, but the engine makes good sounds for a 1.8T and it was a pretty good driving experience. I enjoyed this more than the A4 FWD and E90 328i.

2011 Volkswagen GTI. Loved this car for fit & finish and driving experience. Just a little small for what I needed and I prefer RWD.

2012 Volkswagen Passat 3.6 and TDI. Very impressed with this car. Not quite in the same performance category as the 3 series but if carrying the family in comfort was first priority this may have been my choice.

2012 Volkswagen GLI. I wanted to love this car based on my GTI experience and I liked the styling and price. However, it just wasn't quite the same experience as in the GTI. Not bad, just not enough to sway me from the 3 series.
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      10-07-2012, 11:06 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtuds View Post
]

We own a Lexus IS as well and it is a pretty good little sport sedan. Nice engine noise especially for a 4cyl and tight steering. It's suspension is a bit stiff and there's no ride control adjustment. On roads with a lot of that crack filler stuff, you almsot get a tinny sound in the cabin as if the suspension is causing some resonation through the frame. Also, the infotainment system in the IS is junk....way outdated, like Lexus should be embarrassed by it. And the seats hurt my back. But nice leather and heated/cooled seats is sweet. No fold down seats. My wife drives it, I wouldn't buy one.
Which IS had a 4-cyl? The 300 had an I6, the 250 and the 300 had v6's.
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