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      11-03-2012, 05:37 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by boltjames
No BMW owner is buying a Cadillac unless its an 80th birthday present for their grandfather.

Can we please stop with the ridiculous "The ATS Is The Scary 3 Series Killer" threads already?

BJ
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      11-03-2012, 06:21 AM   #112
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Look, any product has its 2%'ers who mean well but bought the wrong thing.

Out of the 85 Million iPhones sold a handful want it to make toast; when it can't, you don't blame the iPhone. You blame the owner and his foolish expectations.

BJ
So the ATS has been on sale, what 6 weeks, two months now, in limited numbers? Let's give it a year and see how the sales do. Let's give the car time to get out into the public, get used and assessed by its owners, and let the word-of-mouth sales factor into the popularity of the car. You're shit-canning the car from the get-go, without even driving one, and your only exposure to the car is some static display in a mall in New Jersey.

You've got some stupid 20-year old notion of Cadillac and GM that's old, tired, and false. Your okay with BMW changing with the times and making a Lexus chick-car clone out of the 3-series (bigger, softer, and gentler for the 50-and-over crowd), but when Cadillac starts on a 10-year plan to reform its self into a performance luxury brand it’s a big f'n joke. Does BMW make a 560 HP station wagon with a 6-speed manual transmission in the US? No. It wouldn't have the balls. Is the ATS different than the 3-series? Yeah, but that doesn't mean it sucks? No. It means it's different. Let's let some time pass and see how many people like the differences.

95% of new 3-series buyers would be just as happy in a Benz C-class, Lexus IS 250, G37, even I dare say a Buick Verano. Most buyers buy the 3-series because the magazines say the car is the class benchmark and for the Roundel on the hood. It's obvious because, as you've pointed out, BMW has tailored the car to them, not us enthusiasts who grew up with BMW when it was really a cult producer in the likes of Saab, Subaru, and Peugeot. I mean, Christ, the standard offered transmission in the 3-series (starting with the F30) is an automatic and you have to ORDER the manual as a no-cost option. To a BMW aficionado like me that's blasphemy. Does it help BMW sell more 3-series, sure; does it help them sell one to me? No.

I remember just 3 short years ago when BMWs advertizing was (paraphrasing) “we’re an independent manufacturer and don’t need to make compromises like other car companies who share platforms between Marques." Look where BMW is today (a planned shared platform with Mini for the 1-series and a shared 7-series for Rolls Royce). Please. BMW is just another car maufacturer now, with barely class-leading performance, and marginal build quality and reliability.

Last edited by Efthreeoh; 11-03-2012 at 06:41 AM.
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      11-03-2012, 08:09 AM   #113
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So the ATS has been on sale, what 6 weeks, two months now, in limited numbers? Let's give it a year and see how the sales do. Let's give the car time to get out into the public, get used and assessed by its owners, and let the word-of-mouth sales factor into the popularity of the car. You're shit-canning the car from the get-go, without even driving one, and your only exposure to the car is some static display in a mall in New Jersey.

You've got some stupid 20-year old notion of Cadillac and GM that's old, tired, and false. Your okay with BMW changing with the times and making a Lexus chick-car clone out of the 3-series (bigger, softer, and gentler for the 50-and-over crowd), but when Cadillac starts on a 10-year plan to reform its self into a performance luxury brand its a big f'n joke. Does BMW make a 560 HP station wagon with a 6-speed manual transmission in the US? No. It wouldn't have the balls. Is the ATS different than the 3-series? Yeah, but that doesn't mean it sucks? No. It means it's different. Let's let some time pass and see how many people like the differences.

95% of new 3-series buyers would be just as happy in a Benz C-class, Lexus IS 250, G37, even I dare say a Buick Verano. Most buyers buy the 3-series because the magazines say the car is the class benchmark and for the Roundel on the hood. It's obvious because, as you've pointed out, BMW has tailored the car to them, not us enthusiasts who grew up with BMW when it was really a cult producer in the likes of Saab, Subaru, and Peugeot. I mean, Christ, the standard offered transmission in the 3-series (starting with the F30) is an automatic and you have to ORDER the manual as a no-cost option. To a BMW aficionado like me that's blasphemy. Does it help BMW sell more 3-series, sure; does it help them sell one to me? No.

I remember just 3 short years ago when BMWs advertizing was (paraphrasing) were an independent manufacturer and dont need to make compromises like other car companies who share platforms between Marques." Look where BMW is today (a planned shared platform with Mini for the 1-series and a shared 7-series for Rolls Royce). Please. BMW is just another car maufacturer now, with barely class-leading performance, and marginal build quality and reliability.
Well said
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      11-03-2012, 08:30 AM   #114
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So the ATS has been on sale, what 6 weeks, two months now, in limited numbers? Let's give it a year and see how the sales do. Let's give the car time to get out into the public, get used and assessed by its owners, and let the word-of-mouth sales factor into the popularity of the car. You're shit-canning the car from the get-go, without even driving one, and your only exposure to the car is some static display in a mall in New Jersey.

You've got some stupid 20-year old notion of Cadillac and GM that's old, tired, and false. Your okay with BMW changing with the times and making a Lexus chick-car clone out of the 3-series (bigger, softer, and gentler for the 50-and-over crowd), but when Cadillac starts on a 10-year plan to reform its self into a performance luxury brand its a big f'n joke. Does BMW make a 560 HP station wagon with a 6-speed manual transmission in the US? No. It wouldn't have the balls. Is the ATS different than the 3-series? Yeah, but that doesn't mean it sucks? No. It means it's different. Let's let some time pass and see how many people like the differences.

95% of new 3-series buyers would be just as happy in a Benz C-class, Lexus IS 250, G37, even I dare say a Buick Verano. Most buyers buy the 3-series because the magazines say the car is the class benchmark and for the Roundel on the hood. It's obvious because, as you've pointed out, BMW has tailored the car to them, not us enthusiasts who grew up with BMW when it was really a cult producer in the likes of Saab, Subaru, and Peugeot. I mean, Christ, the standard offered transmission in the 3-series (starting with the F30) is an automatic and you have to ORDER the manual as a no-cost option. To a BMW aficionado like me that's blasphemy. Does it help BMW sell more 3-series, sure; does it help them sell one to me? No.

I remember just 3 short years ago when BMWs advertizing was (paraphrasing) were an independent manufacturer and dont need to make compromises like other car companies who share platforms between Marques." Look where BMW is today (a planned shared platform with Mini for the 1-series and a shared 7-series for Rolls Royce). Please. BMW is just another car maufacturer now, with barely class-leading performance, and marginal build quality and reliability.
Two choices:

1. Stop buying BMW's.

2. Stop whining.

Pick one.

BJ
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      11-03-2012, 09:25 AM   #115
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Automotive magazines exist for one purpose and one purpose only:

To sell automotive magazines.

Look, you don't want to hear this but I'm going to say it anyway. There is nothing wrong with the BMW 3 Series. Your problem isn't the car, your problem is you. BMWs customers have spoken, and we got exactly what we wanted. The car is larger, softer, more powerful, and more comfortable. All for virtually the same money. The 30-year-old E36 driver of 20 years ago is now 50. He grew up. He doesn't use local streets as a dragstrip anymore. He needs a car that's larger to haul the kids and the family dog, he needs a car that's softer to relieve the pain on his aching back, he needs a car with all new technology to support his iOS devices habit.

Nobody cares about hydraulic steering, unsprung weight, road feel, exhaust notes or any of that other faux-enthusiast nonsense anymore. We're not 30, we're 50. BMW wouldn't have built the car this way if the facts were different. The car has moved on; now so must you.

BJ
How is an magazine journalist any different then an internet journalist? Its selling something. I never said I didn't like the new F30 if anything I 've defended its turbo 4 pretty thoroughly. What I did say is that NO CAR IS PERFECT and if you believe so you're afraid to face the truth.

"Nobody cares about hydraulic steering, unsprung weight, road feel, exhaust notes or any of that other faux-enthusiast nonsense anymore."?????? you honestly believe that

If that is true , then why continue to tweak the car? This statement alone proves to me that you know nothing about the car other than the badge.I'm confused at this point , with all your wants, why you didn't just buy a lexus.So the way I see it the problem is you. People like you will continue to dilute the brand until the 3 is a shell of its self. If all you said is true, then why does the M3 even exist??? It fits 4 comfortably, has a good size trunk and will do everything the 328 will do only with more composure and speed .It has great seats and is great for the long haul too,,,so tell me, being the "elitist" you are , why didn't you pony up the cash for one???....I think we all know the answer. So plug in your new I phone, put your windows down, hang your arm out the window and drown out out the world. With the range of cars I have , I do continue to move on. You seem to be the one thats stuck in this little world you've created for yourself, where everything you have is better than everyone elses. NOW, I'm gonna tell you something you don't want to hear, that someone is always faster, has more money and has a bigger house.......and to give you a little back ground on me since you've assumed I'm some punk kid that has a modded mazda, The only car I've ever owned that was Japanese was a Skyline. I just turned 40 , I'm 2nd Generation American.Both sides of my family came from Germany.Stuttgart and Regensburg . I've spent countless hours of track time, because nobody's perfect, there is always room for improvement. I don't race on the streets , I don't have the need. I've been with the same gorgeous woman since I was 17. She's a natural when it comes to driving and she can run with the fast group.She had Zero interest in driving on a track when she met me , but she sure as hell wasn't gonna sit there and just look pretty.My family owns a heavy Equipment sales and leasing business which has afforded me some great opportunities . Since getting drilled by some idiot about 5yrs while riding my R6 I've been laid up nursing a broken C3,C4. Luckily I'm still walking and moving my arms without any problems, but there was nerve damage done to my occipital nerve which causes excrutiating pain.. I've been financially very blessed, but I was also made to do every dirty job from the time I was able to hold a broom or mop. I've had to work my way to the top of my own business. Work shoulder to shoulder with the men who work for me. I could care less having the latest smart phone. I refuse to be that idiot standing in line waiting for the latest , greatest phone just because its comes in a new color. Those are garnish to me . Sure its nice to have my samsung when I need it,, but lets be real ,, thats rare in the grand scheme of things. I have a truck that gets my dog back and forth with me and the seats in it are just fine
So keep telling yourself ,your 328 is the ultimate of all BMWs , that 335 owners don't really own BMW's because of where they are made and that everyone else makes crap.This a BMW site , not a 328 site. I'm sure the next time BMW needs consumer input they will just call you because you insist on speaking for all of "us" . I'll look forward to the next poker that comes down the line

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      11-03-2012, 09:32 AM   #116
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Two choices:

1. Stop buying BMW's.

2. Stop whining.

Pick one.

BJ
Wait.. I thought I was the only one that disagreed with you? welcome aboard . I was told to never argue with an idiot because they'd only bring down to their level and then beat you with experience,,, but hey ,, it helps pass the time
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      11-03-2012, 10:40 AM   #117
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We are all getting our knickers in a twist quite unnecessarily over the comparison between a Brilliant BMW and a Cruddy Cadillac.

In the UK, we would not give the latter time of day as we are pretty sure that the Cruddy Cadillac is a pile of horse manure and then some.

But I must admit that this bitchy thread is great fun.
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      11-03-2012, 10:54 AM   #118
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Can we get that cadillac off this BMW website. No true BMW driver is ever going to consider a cadillac.
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      11-03-2012, 11:27 AM   #119
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Can we get that cadillac off this BMW website. No true BMW driver is ever going to consider a cadillac.
This thread needs to get locked ASAP, PLEASE, PRETTY PLEASE.

I am about to puke at the mere mention of a Ca-ca-ca .... Crapallac! There, I said it! May the lord of Rectal Rings forgive me my filthy honest mouth.
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      11-03-2012, 01:25 PM   #120
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This thread needs to get locked ASAP, PLEASE, PRETTY PLEASE.

I am about to puke at the mere mention of a Ca-ca-ca .... Crapallac! There, I said it! May the lord of Rectal Rings forgive me my filthy honest mouth.
I'm in FULL agreement. LOCK IT DOWN so these guys quit spewing such nonsense. My knickers are starting to twist too..I can hardly say Cadillac anymore and I own one.....oh wait thats right its impossible to own both a BMW and a Cadillac. We all know that one is sheer perfection and the other one is utter crap. I don't know what I was thinking. I musta been having a really bad day.Time to trade everything in for a whole fleet of 328's because BJ has finally convinced me . I now see how wrong I've been.Giving other cars a test drive and looking them over is just stupid. From here on in I'll be a good boy and stay close to the flock. I will never stray again. All hail the mighty 328The greatest car ever built period......sorry 335, M3 5 series ,M5 and so on drivers. I have been corrected and you too should quickly drop your cars because they aren't "real" BMW's . I see now that saying another manufacturer has made a good car is a HUGE mistake. Go back through and read all of my posts. I never once said anything bad about the new 3. I personally like it.I just stopped and got some For Sale signs. I'm just taking the first offer I get . The more I think about having those filthy cars in my possession the more it really bothers me. Thank you all for helping me with my problem of liking cars. I see now that I most follow blindly .Please forgive me . MAybe some day we could get together and knock a few back. Cheers
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      11-03-2012, 01:42 PM   #121
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I'm in FULL agreement. LOCK IT DOWN so these guys quit spewing such nonsense. My knickers are starting to twist too..I can hardly say Cadillac anymore and I own one.....oh wait thats right its impossible to own both a BMW and a Cadillac. We all know that one is sheer perfection and the other one is utter crap. I don't know what I was thinking. I musta been having a really bad day.Time to trade everything in for a whole fleet of 328's because BJ has finally convinced me . I now see how wrong I've been.Giving other cars a test drive and looking them over is just stupid. From here on in I'll be a good boy and stay close to the flock. I will never stray again. All hail the mighty 328The greatest car ever built period......sorry 335, M3 5 series ,M5 and so on drivers. I have been corrected and you too should quickly drop your cars because they aren't "real" BMW's . I see now that saying another manufacturer has made a good car is a HUGE mistake. Go back through and read all of my posts. I never once said anything bad about the new 3. I personally like it.I just stopped and got some For Sale signs. I'm just taking the first offer I get . The more I think about having those filthy cars in my possession the more it really bothers me. Thank you all for helping me with my problem of liking cars. I see now that I most follow blindly .Please forgive me . MAybe some day we could get together and knock a few back. Cheers

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      11-03-2012, 03:33 PM   #122
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I'm in FULL agreement. LOCK IT DOWN so these guys quit spewing such nonsense. My knickers are starting to twist too..I can hardly say Cadillac anymore and I own one.....oh wait thats right its impossible to own both a BMW and a Cadillac. We all know that one is sheer perfection and the other one is utter crap. I don't know what I was thinking. I musta been having a really bad day.Time to trade everything in for a whole fleet of 328's because BJ has finally convinced me . I now see how wrong I've been.Giving other cars a test drive and looking them over is just stupid. From here on in I'll be a good boy and stay close to the flock. I will never stray again. All hail the mighty 328 The greatest car ever built period......sorry 335, M3 5 series ,M5 and so on drivers. I have been corrected and you too should quickly drop your cars because they aren't "real" BMW's . I see now that saying another manufacturer has made a good car is a HUGE mistake. Go back through and read all of my posts. I never once said anything bad about the new 3. I personally like it.I just stopped and got some For Sale signs. I'm just taking the first offer I get . The more I think about having those filthy cars in my possession the more it really bothers me. Thank you all for helping me with my problem of liking cars. I see now that I most follow blindly .Please forgive me . MAybe some day we could get together and knock a few back.
Dude, you're one of the bad guys.

BJ
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      11-03-2012, 03:35 PM   #123
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This thread needs to get locked ASAP, PLEASE, PRETTY PLEASE.

I am about to puke at the mere mention of a Ca-ca-ca .... Crapallac! There, I said it! May the lord of Rectal Rings forgive me my filthy honest mouth.
I may buy Rez and Efth an ATS each just to shut 'em up.

As BMW owners we're above this GM Buick rebadge attempt. Seriously.

BJ
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      11-03-2012, 03:46 PM   #124
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I may buy Rez and Efth an ATS each just to shut 'em up.

As BMW owners we're above this GM Buick rebadge attempt. Seriously.

BJ
Don't do that. Be smart and buy each of them a base spec F30. You'll save money and you'll do them a favour. It's a win, win situation all around!
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      11-03-2012, 03:49 PM   #125
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Dude, you're one of the bad guys.

BJ
So after all the things I said ,,,thats your response?? Come on,, give me something other than " BMW is the greatest ,,so there". I really would expect more,I'll play the bad guy if you're gonna be the "joker"
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      11-03-2012, 03:53 PM   #126
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So after all the things I said ,,,thats your response?? Come on,, give me something other than " BMW is the greatest ,,so there". I really would expect more,I'll play the bad guy if you're gonna be the "joker"
I've read college term papers that are shorter than some of your responses.

I'll wait for the movie version, thank you.

BJ
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      11-03-2012, 03:55 PM   #127
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I may buy Rez and Efth an ATS each just to shut 'em up.

As BMW owners we're above this GM Buick rebadge attempt. Seriously.

BJ
Wow you are having a hizzy...To late , someone just bought my M3 and I'm swinging downtown now to grab a new 3.6.....now what would it take to shut you up about your "greatest luxury car in the world" Rolex and trophy wife. Cuz your posts always seem to go there... You are a funny guy
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      11-03-2012, 03:55 PM   #128
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Don't do that. Be smart and buy each of them a base spec F30. You'll save money and you'll do them a favour. It's a win, win situation all around!
Perhaps I should buy them an E46. They're all over the place, they're dirt cheap, and it seems to be all these whiners want to talk about.

"I hate BMW because they made the F30 so big and I was hoping the Cadillac ATS would teach them a lesson because it's supposed to be more like the E46 but now it isn't so I'm so sad. Waaaa, waaaa..."

BJ
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      11-03-2012, 03:57 PM   #129
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Wow you are having a hizzy...To late , someone just bought my M3 and I'm swinging downtown now to grab a new 3.6.....now what would it take to shut you up about your "greatest luxury car in the world" Rolex and trophy wife. Cuz your posts always seem to go there... You are a funny guy
What's a 3.6? Am I supposed to know what that is?

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      11-03-2012, 04:56 PM   #130
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No true BMW driver is ever going to consider a cadillac.
Amen !!!

How could any true enthusiast driver live with that bloody awful, awkward and baroque logo on the Caddy front grill and on its steering wheel ?
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      11-03-2012, 08:38 PM   #131
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I've read college term papers that are shorter than some of your responses.

I'll wait for the movie version, thank you.

BJ
What can I say. Every once in a while I like to educate the "elitists" on what their cars have in em and the technical aspects, from a "drivers" point of view. A 3.6 would be 3.6 liters. CAn you guess what comes in your 328?...no , its not a 3.28 liter.Yes my one response was huge , but I find it amusing your only response is "BMW 328 is the greatest" . Its kind of the equivalent of a 4 year old plugging his ears going"LaLaLaLaLaLa I can't hear you".I could talk for days with other track junkies about trail braking into a decreasing radius curve, but that would surely be lost on you . So I'll end where I started.I love both cars.I currently own 3 BMW's and I'm anxiously awaiting the 4 series. You can hate the looks of the ATS , but #'s don't lie. These cars are very close.

"Perhaps I should buy them an E46. They're all over the place, they're dirt cheap, and it seems to be all these whiners want to talk about. BJ"

And there you go again talking about buying people "cheap" cars as though you could really afford it. There's a reason people love these cars but once again you'd have no idea. So while you're waiting for "the movie version" of my responses, I'll patiently wait for for to grow up and quit playing in daddy's shoe's.Until then I'll get a good laugh out of you one line answer you have to every thread on here."BMW 328 is the greatest!" BTW you never did answer my question why you didn't consider an e90 M3?. It would fit the bill for everything you need. But I can imagine that you wouldn't want to be seen in such an "old " car. But its still good to know that no matter what kind of BMW we all may have , its a brotherhood and we all stick together ...right?
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      11-03-2012, 08:50 PM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F30AM View Post
Don't do that. Be smart and buy each of them a base spec F30. You'll save money and you'll do them a favour. It's a win, win situation all around!
If you really want to , I'll take it but please make it a sport with an M package. I ordered one of the first ones to hit my dealership( like I said I really like the car) but decided I'd wait for the 4 series since almost all my cars are 2 door coupes.I don't have kids , so no need for a 4 door.I can wait another year. Let me know if you're gonna send one my way. I'd like it in black please.Yeah!!!! I'm finally gonna get to replace that old E92 M3 I have ,that BoltJames keeps reminding me of.Its so embarrassing to be driving around .All my friends make fun of me

F30AM,,I hope YOU realize I'm screwing around,,,well to some degree. So beers it is!! cuz I don't have white leather gloves to slap you in the face with and challenge you to a duel. Cheers to the BMW brotherhood. Even if not everyone agrees

Last edited by Reznick; 11-03-2012 at 08:58 PM. Reason: added
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