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      11-03-2012, 09:03 PM   #133
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And there you go again talking about buying people "cheap" cars as though you could really afford it. There's a reason people love these cars but once again you'd have no idea. So while you're waiting for "the movie version" of my responses, I'll patiently wait for for to grow up and quit playing in daddy's shoe's.Until then I'll get a good laugh out of you one line answer you have to every thread on here."BMW 328 is the greatest!"

BTW you never did answer my question why you didn't consider an e90 M3?. It would fit the bill for everything you need. But I can imagine that you wouldn't want to be seen in such an "old " car. But its still good to know that no matter what kind of BMW we all may have , its a brotherhood and we all stick together ...right?
1. I am 48 with a net worth of $4M. My dad died a rich man in spirit but a poor man in reality.

2. Nothing says "midlife crisis" more than an E90 M3. It's a humiliating car for a 60 year old wanting a last thrill before assisted living. A 4-door family sedan dressed up as a sportscar for the bald boy-racer speeding along at 40 mph in a 20 mph zone while taking his daughter to ballet lessons. The "look at me!" car for the hypocritical faux-enthusiast who claims "I hate people who think BMW owners are arrogant snobs".

BJ
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      11-04-2012, 07:16 AM   #134
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1. I am 48 with a net worth of $4M. My dad died a rich man in spirit but a poor man in reality.

2. Nothing says "midlife crisis" more than an E90 M3. It's a humiliating car for a 60 year old wanting a last thrill before assisted living. A 4-door family sedan dressed up as a sportscar for the bald boy-racer speeding along at 40 mph in a 20 mph zone while taking his daughter to ballet lessons. The "look at me!" car for the hypocritical faux-enthusiast who claims "I hate people who think BMW owners are arrogant snobs".

BJ
You are an enigma wrapped in a riddle , I'll give you that, and I seriously don't mean that in a smug way. But the things you say are a direct contradiction to the way you say you feel and the things you post. The only way an M3 is a "Midlife crisis" car is if you make it one.99% of people on the road don't know this difference between one model or another.Put the suspension on its softest setting and you truly do have a nice DD. I couldn't have kept the car if it was harsh to drive while I was rehabbing a broken neck. I've never had a car that cost so much and got so little attention and that was FINE by me( the Skyline was a different story and thats a small factor why its gone.) .I didn't buy it as a conversation starter.I hate flash and bling. Hell I de-badged my M3 when I got it.
You have 8 years on me but it sounds like we are in a similar situation. My father worked day and night to try to feed his family & get his own business off the ground . We had to come by our money through hard work ,but it paid off in a big way.He wants for nothing in this world anymore , but he's not a flashy person. So,I have respect for anyone who puts their hours to make a living . Where we differ seems to be our approach to things. I usually have a good laugh at the threads on here and rarely give an opinion either way.But the biggest thing I hate about one of the cars I love the most is the "elitist " attitude that goes with it.But I understand, that goes with the brand. You say you hate the "faux-enthusiast", but if you're talking about people who track and autocross their cars , then you're talking about a core group who flocked to the original 3 long before BMW became the status symbol it seems to be.
Man,,,,all of this because I said the ATS was a good car... I still stand by that. But that doesn't mean I dislike the new 3 any less.

Last edited by Reznick; 11-04-2012 at 07:23 AM. Reason: added
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      11-04-2012, 09:22 AM   #135
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I must admit I rather like the American section of this forum. My lot in the UK are a bit boring for my outrť character and some tend to be quite brusque. But that's the nature of the beast.

I won't discuss my present financial status. I was lucky and born with a golden spoon in my mouth. However, everything I have attained so far is from really hard work (coupled with a fair degree of talent), preceeded by a very good education which my parents gave me. Due to this, I could make my own way in the world without relying on my family fortune which through war and pestilence disappeared quite rapidly. My only regret is that, in my formative years, I did not move to the USA. Great pity.

I am nearly 65 years young, have a full head of slightly greying hair, 6' 1" tall, weigh 147 British pounds, 29" waist, very fit, work 10-11 hours per day 5 days per week and commute to work by car. I've decided to retire when I am 69 years, that is, unless I am killed off by some unknown cause or disease. Hopefully, my excellent and expensive Private Health Insurance will prolong my life to enable my further enjoyment of the fruits of my success in the evening of my life.

I love very fast cars but cannot afford them. My ideal would be a Ferrari F12 or Ferrari FF. No German car compares. For true high end performance with style and kudos, it HAS to be an Italian Stallion.

But one thing I am absolutely sure of: I will never buy an American car. It would mean premature retirement from life.
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      11-04-2012, 09:27 AM   #136
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The only way an M3 is a "Midlife crisis" car is if you make it one
x2. That's is utterly ridiculous.
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      11-04-2012, 09:30 AM   #137
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Two choices:

1. Stop buying BMW's.

2. Stop whining.

Pick one.

BJ
1. Exactly.

2. Haven't been. Just stating my observations.
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      11-04-2012, 10:13 AM   #138
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I must admit I rather like the American section of this forum. My lot in the UK are a bit boring for my outrť character and some tend to be quite brusque. But that's the nature of the beast.

I won't discuss my present financial status. I was lucky and born with a golden spoon in my mouth. However, everything I have attained so far is from really hard work (coupled with a fair degree of talent), preceeded by a very good education which my parents gave me. Due to this, I could make my own way in the world without relying on my family fortune which through war and pestilence disappeared quite rapidly. My only regret is that, in my formative years, I did not move to the USA. Great pity.

I am nearly 65 years young, have a full head of slightly greying hair, 6' 1" tall, weigh 147 British pounds, 29" waist, very fit, work 10-11 hours per day 5 days per week and commute to work by car. I've decided to retire when I am 69 years, that is, unless I am killed off by some unknown cause or disease. Hopefully, my excellent and expensive Private Health Insurance will prolong my life to enable my further enjoyment of the fruits of my success in the evening of my life.

I love very fast cars but cannot afford them. My ideal would be a Ferrari F12 or Ferrari FF. No German car compares. For true high end performance with style and kudos, it HAS to be an Italian Stallion.

But one thing I am absolutely sure of: I will never buy an American car. It would mean premature retirement from life.
Like you I won't discuss money. I find it crass. While I wasn't born with a golden spoon in my mouth, I was fortunate enough to have parents that sacrificed a LOT to make sure my brother & I could both do well in this world.I stayed in the family business to build it ( although I did go to college)while my brother is an Ivy league graduate with an engineering degree and is fortunate enough to travel the world doing what he loves.
Good for you putting in the hours you do. I hope I can still be working hard later into my life. My father is 75 and still puts in 6 days a week and working with Bulldozers & excavators is no joke. Everything is heavy. Unfortunately after a bad accident I'm not exactly moving around like I used to.Being in constant pain does funny things to you. It will just wear you out.
I agree with you about the REALLY fast cars except for one thing. I love the Porsche Carrera GT. The sound of the engine alone is intoxicating. But you are right , the F12 is gorgeous.
You have the right to your opinion and I respect that, but my original response to this whole thread was that the ATS is a more than competent car . To say that its a "3 series killer" by anyone is just stupid... bet hey that's what journalists do.Like a lot of things in life , your like & dislikes are usually formed by you surroundings. I could never see myself owning a small hot hatch. I just don't like small cars , but like I said , I know that has to do alot with how I grew up
I'm just building a new home and in my avatar you can see the shop that I built in the background. It'll fit about 16 cars.We just poured the radiant heated floor yesterday. If you ever find yourself in the US give me a shout. We may not agree on everything, but if we did, life would be awfully boring.Cheers
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      11-04-2012, 10:49 AM   #139
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Like you I won't discuss money. I find it crass. While I wasn't born with a golden spoon in my mouth, I was fortunate enough to have parents that sacrificed a LOT to make sure my brother & I could both do well in this world.I stayed in the family business to build it ( although I did go to college)while my brother is an Ivy league graduate with an engineering degree and is fortunate enough to travel the world doing what he loves.
Good for you putting in the hours you do. I hope I can still be working hard later into my life. My father is 75 and still puts in 6 days a week and working with Bulldozers & excavators is no joke. Everything is heavy. Unfortunately after a bad accident I'm not exactly moving around like I used to.Being in constant pain does funny things to you. It will just wear you out.
I agree with you about the REALLY fast cars except for one thing. I love the Porsche Carrera GT. The sound of the engine alone is intoxicating. But you are right , the F12 is gorgeous.
You have the right to your opinion and I respect that, but my original response to this whole thread was that the ATS is a more than competent car . To say that its a "3 series killer" by anyone is just stupid... bet hey that's what journalists do.Like a lot of things in life , your like & dislikes are usually formed by you surroundings. I could never see myself owning a small hot hatch. I just don't like small cars , but like I said , I know that has to do alot with how I grew up
I'm just building a new home and in my avatar you can see the shop that I built in the background. It'll fit about 16 cars.We just poured the radiant heated floor yesterday. If you ever find yourself in the US give me a shout. We may not agree on everything, but if we did, life would be awfully boring.Cheers
Thank you Rez for the warmth of your reply. I might just take you up on your invitation. Ditto.

Sorry to hear you are in pain. It's awful and rules one's life so horribly. I've been there but have nearly recovered. Taken nearly 2 years. Ripped my left shoulder with a very bad fall from the top of the stairs on a double-decker bus whilst trying to protect my grandchild. This was due to the driver braking hard to avoid a tourist. Tore all the tendons etc. Major reconstruction surgery. My advice when in London: Beware of Busses!

Just watched the F1 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix. Really exciting race this time. Lots of real racing. Think I'll have a Scotch now! Cheers!!!
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      11-04-2012, 11:09 AM   #140
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Wow this boltjames guy is a real piece of work isn't he? I had to registered to just to address this thread. BJ you have no clue what a 3-series is all about. If you want a soft, cushy, Lexus like car why didn't you just... I dunno.. buy a Lexus? I'm not sure that a 50yr old man is a 3-series target demographic you should have gone with a 5 series at least.

Anyways it's clear from your posts that you are just a badge snob with an elitist attitude. Speak for yourself when you say that 3-series customers want a floaty boat of a car.



Also an e92 335i coupe is better looking, better driving not to mention faster car.. it is a simple decision for a true enthusiast there is not even an argument of which car is a better BMW 3.
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      11-04-2012, 01:50 PM   #141
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Wow this boltjames guy is a real piece of work isn't he? I had to registered to just to address this thread. BJ you have no clue what a 3-series is all about. If you want a soft, cushy, Lexus like car why didn't you just... I dunno.. buy a Lexus? I'm not sure that a 50yr old man is a 3-series target demographic you should have gone with a 5 series at least.

Anyways it's clear from your posts that you are just a badge snob with an elitist attitude. Speak for yourself when you say that 3-series customers want a floaty boat of a car.



Also an e92 335i coupe is better looking, better driving not to mention faster car.. it is a simple decision for a true enthusiast there is not even an argument of which car is a better BMW 3.
Can't resist.

Calling someone a snob and elitist, while using a phrase like "true enthusiast" is hilarious.

I don't like the implication that those who drove BMWs in the 80s/90s are "real BMW drivers" as if they are part of an ELITE fraternity. While those who buy BMW due to brand reputation are badge snobs. Maybe you should be flattered that less experienced drivers are taking your word on the quality of many of your previous BMWs.

Am I to take it that when someone buys a toyota due to "brand reliability" they are also badge snobs? Obviously, the brand reputation is as big a part of their decision as any specific qualities of any individual car--corolla, camry, trim lines, who cares it's a toyota.

BTW, BMW thinks the f30 335i sedan is faster than the e92 335i.
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      11-04-2012, 04:33 PM   #142
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But one thing I am absolutely sure of: I will never buy an American car. It would mean premature retirement from life.
I am really enjoying your wonderful British sense of humour !!!! Cheers !!!
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      11-04-2012, 04:44 PM   #143
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Wow this boltjames guy is a real piece of work isn't he? I had to registered to just to address this thread. BJ you have no clue what a 3-series is all about. If you want a soft, cushy, Lexus like car why didn't you just... I dunno.. buy a Lexus? I'm not sure that a 50yr old man is a 3-series target demographic you should have gone with a 5 series at least.

Anyways it's clear from your posts that you are just a badge snob with an elitist attitude. Speak for yourself when you say that 3-series customers want a floaty boat of a car.

Also an e92 335i coupe is better looking, better driving not to mention faster car.. it is a simple decision for a true enthusiast there is not even an argument of which car is a better BMW 3.
Sorry, I can't speak to Canadians.

BJ
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      11-05-2012, 06:36 AM   #144
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Can't resist.

Calling someone a snob and elitist, while using a phrase like "true enthusiast" is hilarious.

I don't like the implication that those who drove BMWs in the 80s/90s are "real BMW drivers" as if they are part of an ELITE fraternity. While those who buy BMW due to brand reputation are badge snobs. Maybe you should be flattered that less experienced drivers are taking your word on the quality of many of your previous BMWs.

Am I to take it that when someone buys a toyota due to "brand reliability" they are also badge snobs? Obviously, the brand reputation is as big a part of their decision as any specific qualities of any individual car--corolla, camry, trim lines, who cares it's a toyota.

BTW, BMW thinks the f30 335i sedan is faster than the e92 335i.
I'll answer this with a yes. Yes they are badge snobs if they do not consider any other car brand because they perceive that all other manufacturers have less reliability qualities than a Toyota. Now, as we've seen in the past few years as Toyota has grown to be the world's largest automobile manufacturer, its quality (reliability) has dropped a bit. For a Toyota owner to ignore that fact and still insist there is no other brand that matches Toyota's reliability then that is badge-whoreism.

But to address the specific issue with being a Roundel-Whore, there is a difference between that and being a Toyota badge-whore. The difference is everyone can appreciate that attribute of high-reliability (as what Toyota is known for), but not everyone can appreciate the attributes that BMW (especially the 3-series) has (had?), which is superior driving dynamics for a mass-produced street-based automobile. In the 70's and early 80's BMWs were known as "driver’s cars". They were relativity expensive and expensive to maintain, but the pain was worth it to those who appreciated the driving response the brand provided. All that has changed; it started in the late 80's with the Yuppies, who once affluent, bought the BMWs mainly because of the badge, but fortunately the driving dynamics were still the prevalent design factor for most BMW models (go look at a 1980's E30 there is no luxury in it, nor in the E28 5-series). The late 80’s BMW buying spree begat Lexus, Infinity, and Acura, who decided there was high profitability in expensive (nee "Luxury") automobiles.

BMW has been chasing them for a long time now. Lexus gained market share by adding amenities to their cars that had nothing to do with driving, but all to do with luxury; and the 90%’ers who now own BMWs appreciate the Lexus luxury, which is why BMW is chasing the Lexus customer (such as Boltjames). Now that BMW is following suit some of us long-time BMW owners don’t like it, we've lost "our" car company to the Lexus-appreciating badge-whores. As I said previously, for the 3-series to come standard with an automatic transmission, and the manual transmission is an option is blasphemy to the BMW aficionado, who grew up with the brand in the 70’s and 80’s.

The things that matter to me that BMW pioneered: anti-dive braking suspension, anti-squat acceleration suspension, steering turn-in, steering that traces the road, braking dynamics that allow for excellent brake modulation, the ability to trail-brake into closing-radius turns, good outward visibility, orange instrument lighting that optimizes outward night driving and reduces eye fatigue, effective headlight illumination, just to name a few. All of these things were BMW traits that other cars didn’t have back in the 1970’s and ‘80s; they weren’t even design considerations for most car companies. That was the difference about BMW.

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      11-05-2012, 08:01 AM   #145
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Thank you Rez for the warmth of your reply. I might just take you up on your invitation. Ditto.

Sorry to hear you are in pain. It's awful and rules one's life so horribly. I've been there but have nearly recovered. Taken nearly 2 years. Ripped my left shoulder with a very bad fall from the top of the stairs on a double-decker bus whilst trying to protect my grandchild. This was due to the driver braking hard to avoid a tourist. Tore all the tendons etc. Major reconstruction surgery. My advice when in London: Beware of Busses!

Just watched the F1 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix. Really exciting race this time. Lots of real racing. Think I'll have a Scotch now! Cheers!!!
Yeah I guess we DO have some stuff in common,,I just got through watching the F1 race. I've been a Button fan since his Karting days and still wonder what his career would have been ( not that it went, or is going, bad) if he went directly to a BMW seat as he was promised. Oh well. Good to see Kimi win if nothing more then to prove people wrong. I love to see the Lotus name on an F1 car again. Was planning on trying to get to Texas for the first F1 race there,, but I'm not sure . This last week (physically) has been rough.
I did the same to my left shoulder a few years before I broke my neck. While on vacation I was surfing and got spiked HARD into the sea floor.I had to come home to see an orthopedist .Luckily my surgeon is the surgeon for Syracuse University so he understood that I needed to actually have functionality with my arm, not just have it patched up.when I woke up after surgery , my doctor told me he couldn't believe badly I had destroyed everything. He said I basically had 2 tendons and skin holding my arm together.lol. I had waited a year after the accident to have surgery. I tried to keep working but it was to the point it would just pop in and out and wouldn't even hurt anymore.I will say one this for anyone who's never had a shoulder injury, you can't believe how long it takes to get it back to good working order. I know it sounds stupid but sleeping is the WORST.
I have yet to get to the UK , although I've been to Germany and the surrounding countries. It's on my list though. Not to beat a dead horse but still being in this much pain makes everything difficult, even traveling. So I'm trying to hold off until I really feel well. If that ever actually happens again.
Enjoy your Bimmer. If there's one thing I love, its a new car. So when the 4 series coupe is finally out , I'm sure you'll see me posting some pics of mine,,,,,if I haven't been kicked off the site for talking about cars made in the US
Sorry for getting

Hey I just thought of something .If you do get to the States I'll make sure to have a 3.6 ATS ready to go. We could travel across the country and take in the sites,,,, in one of Americas finest.. Sorry ,,I couldn't resist.Cheers

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      11-05-2012, 01:45 PM   #146
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Yeah I guess we DO have some stuff in common,,I just got through watching the F1 race. I've been a Button fan since his Karting days and still wonder what his career would have been ( not that it went, or is going, bad) if he went directly to a BMW seat as he was promised. Oh well. Good to see Kimi win if nothing more then to prove people wrong. I love to see the Lotus name on an F1 car again. Was planning on trying to get to Texas for the first F1 race there,, but I'm not sure . This last week (physically) has been rough.
I did the same to my left shoulder a few years before I broke my neck. While on vacation I was surfing and got spiked HARD into the sea floor.I had to come home to see an orthopedist .Luckily my surgeon is the surgeon for Syracuse University so he understood that I needed to actually have functionality with my arm, not just have it patched up.when I woke up after surgery , my doctor told me he couldn't believe badly I had destroyed everything. He said I basically had 2 tendons and skin holding my arm together.lol. I had waited a year after the accident to have surgery. I tried to keep working but it was to the point it would just pop in and out and wouldn't even hurt anymore.I will say one this for anyone who's never had a shoulder injury, you can't believe how long it takes to get it back to good working order. I know it sounds stupid but sleeping is the WORST.
I have yet to get to the UK , although I've been to Germany and the surrounding countries. It's on my list though. Not to beat a dead horse but still being in this much pain makes everything difficult, even traveling. So I'm trying to hold off until I really feel well. If that ever actually happens again.
Enjoy your Bimmer. If there's one thing I love, its a new car. So when the 4 series coupe is finally out , I'm sure you'll see me posting some pics of mine,,,,,if I haven't been kicked off the site for talking about cars made in the US
Sorry for getting

Hey I just thought of something .If you do get to the States I'll make sure to have a 3.6 ATS ready to go. We could travel across the country and take in the sites,,,, in one of Americas finest.. Sorry ,,I couldn't resist.Cheers
Another post! Well, why not.

I'll certainly look you up when I paddle across the pond. I think I'll come by boat instead. If only they had hot air baloons. Ah, the days of the Zepplin; though its blow-up was not too cool. I'll never name my car Hindenberg. I've named him Reinhardt.

One of the F30s is built. The other one in 3 weeks time. But we don't want them until December. I have to sell my Mk6 Golf GTI, and my ex her Mercedes 350 CDI AMG Saloon. But we might be both mad enough to hang on to these for a couple of months. 'BMWs, Mercedes or GTI darling? Hmmm, we'll take the BMWs tonight. We'll use the older ones for commuting'.

Yes, it was hell to sleep for 2 years with the shoulder problem. Had to revert to sleeping pills. Otherwise, I'd have become a Zombie.

I hope you recover fully. It takes time (its the greatest healer) and hopefully all the pain will subside and be a distant memory.

I'm still enjoying my Mk6 Golf GTI. Sadly, it's days are numbered as I have decided to graduate to a grown-up sedan. Which means I've grown up at long last. Strange feeling!

Just realised: ATS owners seem to be very friendly and interesting. A gentler, nicer human.
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      11-05-2012, 03:04 PM   #147
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Yes, it was hell to sleep for 2 years with the shoulder problem. Had to revert to sleeping pills. Otherwise, I'd have become a Zombie.

I went out and bought a recliner so I could sleep sitting, mostly, upright.Its the only way I could make it through the night. My wife still curses that ugly thing even though it helped me sleep.lol

I hope you recover fully. It takes time (its the greatest healer) and hopefully all the pain will subside and be a distant memory.

Thanks . The worst part with the neck injury is that , at this point , I don't really look "sick". But with that occipital nerve damaged ,on a bad day , I feel like someone stuck a knife in my head , right behind my left ear & straight into my left eye. It never stops. Its just a matter of how bad the pain is. Some days I'm just curled up in a ball, sweating it out . Even with very strong pain killers.I can't give up though. I have too many people who love me & have stuck with me

I'm still enjoying my Mk6 Golf GTI. Sadly, it's days are numbered as I have decided to graduate to a grown-up sedan. Which means I've grown up at long last. Strange feeling!
Hey , like I said before, growing up sometimes, has nothing to do with age.

Just realised: ATS owners seem to be very friendly and interesting. A gentler, nicer human.
I just realized there are actual real human beings lurking around on these forums. Its nice to finally bump into one I knew I could finally break through to someone about us ATS "likers". Now could I humbly ask that you consider not everyone from the United States as an arrogant ass or a slack jawed hick. The majority of us are truely likeable people just trying to get through life like everyone else on this planet
OK I guess we should close this thread down

Last edited by Reznick; 11-05-2012 at 03:05 PM. Reason: added
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      11-05-2012, 03:15 PM   #148
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I just realized there are actual real human beings lurking around on these forums. Its nice to finally bump into one I knew I could finally break through to someone about us ATS "likers". Now could I humbly ask that you consider not everyone from the United States as an arrogant ass or a slack jawed hick. The majority of us are truely likeable people just trying to get through life like everyone else on this planet
OK I guess we should close this thread down
I know this. My closest friend of 35 years is an American. I visit the States often, though not often enough as I hate airports.

We've got our own dickheads in the UK who cannot read, write or speak their own native language. Being an Island Nation does not help one bit.
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      11-05-2012, 04:20 PM   #149
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I'll answer this with a yes. Yes they are badge snobs if they do not consider any other car brand because they perceive that all other manufacturers have less reliability qualities than a Toyota. Now, as we've seen in the past few years as Toyota has grown to be the world's largest automobile manufacturer, its quality (reliability) has dropped a bit. For a Toyota owner to ignore that fact and still insist there is no other brand that matches Toyota's reliability then that is badge-whoreism.

But to address the specific issue with being a Roundel-Whore, there is a difference between that and being a Toyota badge-whore. The difference is everyone can appreciate that attribute of high-reliability (as what Toyota is known for), but not everyone can appreciate the attributes that BMW (especially the 3-series) has (had?), which is superior driving dynamics for a mass-produced street-based automobile. In the 70's and early 80's BMWs were known as "driverís cars". They were relativity expensive and expensive to maintain, but the pain was worth it to those who appreciated the driving response the brand provided. All that has changed; it started in the late 80's with the Yuppies, who once affluent, bought the BMWs mainly because of the badge, but fortunately the driving dynamics were still the prevalent design factor for most BMW models (go look at a 1980's E30 there is no luxury in it, nor in the E28 5-series). The late 80ís BMW buying spree begat Lexus, Infinity, and Acura, who decided there was high profitability in expensive (nee "Luxury") automobiles.

BMW has been chasing them for a long time now. Lexus gained market share by adding amenities to their cars that had nothing to do with driving, but all to do with luxury; and the 90%íers who now own BMWs appreciate the Lexus luxury, which is why BMW is chasing the Lexus customer (such as Boltjames). Now that BMW is following suit some of us long-time BMW owners donít like it, we've lost "our" car company to the Lexus-appreciating badge-whores. As I said previously, for the 3-series to come standard with an automatic transmission, and the manual transmission is an option is blasphemy to the BMW aficionado, who grew up with the brand in the 70ís and 80ís.

The things that matter to me that BMW pioneered: anti-dive braking suspension, anti-squat acceleration suspension, steering turn-in, steering that traces the road, braking dynamics that allow for excellent brake modulation, the ability to trail-brake into closing-radius turns, good outward visibility, orange instrument lighting that optimizes outward night driving and reduces eye fatigue, effective headlight illumination, just to name a few. All of these things were BMW traits that other cars didnít have back in the 1970ís and Ď80s; they werenít even design considerations for most car companies. That was the difference about BMW.
So,then BMW elitists are ok when they are elitists for the right reasons. I prefer to live in a world where you don't have to pass a special test to buy a car you like; or receive permission from a special priesthood of drivers. I also don't think an "enthusiast" politburo should be anointing what makes a "driver's car." Mechanical precision is nice, but being able to control your radio more easily is also good for a driver.

The problem is the driving experience is subjective enough that it is hard to say that any opinion is objectively superior to that of another. Nothing you described as being unique to BMW seems to be that different from what a porsche customer would say about their, entirely different, cars. What you see as a lowering of standards and unfortunate compromise can just as easily interpreted as old people complaining about the good old days.

In the end, my problem is that I don't think someone who prefers the driving experience of the f30 to that of the e30 should be dismissed as wrongheaded or chasing lexus. Nor do I think anyone should be criticized for liking their car.

Obviously, that's wrong when BMW customers criticize people who like the ATS, but when people criticize f30s (for the right reasons with historical references) it's certainly ok.

Isn't it possible that boltjames really thinks his car is perfect for him? Why begrudge his happiness. Why spend 20 years complaining that no one is building the right type of car? Get what you like and enjoy it.
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      11-05-2012, 05:33 PM   #150
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So,then BMW elitists are ok when they are elitists for the right reasons. I prefer to live in a world where you don't have to pass a special test to buy a car you like; or receive permission from a special priesthood of drivers. I also don't think an "enthusiast" politburo should be anointing what makes a "driver's car." Mechanical precision is nice, but being able to control your radio more easily is also good for a driver.

The problem is the driving experience is subjective enough that it is hard to say that any opinion is objectively superior to that of another. Nothing you described as being unique to BMW seems to be that different from what a porsche customer would say about their, entirely different, cars. What you see as a lowering of standards and unfortunate compromise can just as easily interpreted as old people complaining about the good old days.

In the end, my problem is that I don't think someone who prefers the driving experience of the f30 to that of the e30 should be dismissed as wrongheaded or chasing lexus. Nor do I think anyone should be criticized for liking their car.

Obviously, that's wrong when BMW customers criticize people who like the ATS, but when people criticize f30s (for the right reasons with historical references) it's certainly ok.

Isn't it possible that boltjames really thinks his car is perfect for him? Why begrudge his happiness. Why spend 20 years complaining that no one is building the right type of car? Get what you like and enjoy it.
+1

Bravo at the recognition of the "enthusiast hypocrisy" around here. It's time that ends:

Enthusiasts hate badge-whores, but insist on driving yuppie status-symbols.

Enthusiasts hate show-off's, but shove their 335i's in everyone's face.

Enthusiasts hate entitled behavior, but drive like maniacs on residential streets.

Enthusiasts hate elitists, but treat $50,000 German luxury cars like Kia's.

Enthusiasts hate snobbery, but look down upon 328i owners.

Enthusiasts hate the display of wealth, but eschew leasing.

It never ends. One can argue, quite accurately, that the so-called "performance enthusiasts" are the biggest badge-whore show-off snobby entitled wealthy elitists in the entire BMW community.

And when they cry "badge-whore!" at someone who is being honest about his intentions it's laughingly ironic.

BJ
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      11-05-2012, 10:21 PM   #151
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+1

Bravo at the recognition of the "enthusiast hypocrisy" around here. It's time that ends:

Enthusiasts hate badge-whores, but insist on driving yuppie status-symbols.

Enthusiasts hate show-off's, but shove their 335i's in everyone's face.

Enthusiasts hate entitled behavior, but drive like maniacs on residential streets.

Enthusiasts hate elitists, but treat $50,000 German luxury cars like Kia's.

Enthusiasts hate snobbery, but look down upon 328i owners.

Enthusiasts hate the display of wealth, but eschew leasing.

It never ends. One can argue, quite accurately, that the so-called "performance enthusiasts" are the biggest badge-whore show-off snobby entitled wealthy elitists in the entire BMW community.

And when they cry "badge-whore!" at someone who is being honest about his intentions it's laughingly ironic.

BJ
Sorry bud, but you're the one who is calling the ATS the new Cadillac Cimarron, not me. You're the one who wants a softer gentler BMW 3-series, not me. You're the one who considers no other make than a BMW, not me.

I currently own an E90 325i, Z3, Hummer H3T, and a beat-up Ford F150. I drove a Ford Pinto for over 15 years of my life and loved it every minute of it. I've owned a Ford Escort, an Acura Integra, a VW bug, a Ford Ranger STX, just to name a few. If I was a "BMW elitist" I'd own a BMW motorcycle, say a Toaster-Tank R60, or another air-head of some type, maybe even an oil-head like an R1200KT, but no, I own a Honda Valkyrie Interstate with 60,000 miles on it. And my past Bikes have been a Seca 650, a Honda CBR1000, and a Kawasaki Concours to name a few. If I was a BMW elitist, I'd own an X5 instead of the Hummer.

I'm the one who's considering an ATS as my next daily driver; you're the one who's stated "No BMW driver would ever consider a Cadillac". You're the Roundel-whore and come across as the elitist. I buy vehicles I like regardless of brand and precieved economic stature. I even like the Chevy Volt; I think it is one of the most innovative cars built today, and I'd buy one in a second if I lived in Suburbia like you do. Would you drive a Volt around New Jersey? Nope, probably not; you’d not be caught dead in Chevrolet. At this moment, BMW has nothing as technically advanced as the Volt for sale as a mainstream mass-produced automobile. You are wrong, BMW drivers will cross-shop the ATS.

So don’t give me any crap about being an “Elitist”.

Last edited by Efthreeoh; 11-05-2012 at 10:34 PM.
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      11-05-2012, 10:39 PM   #152
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So,then BMW elitists are ok when they are elitists for the right reasons. I prefer to live in a world where you don't have to pass a special test to buy a car you like; or receive permission from a special priesthood of drivers. I also don't think an "enthusiast" politburo should be anointing what makes a "driver's car." Mechanical precision is nice, but being able to control your radio more easily is also good for a driver.

The problem is the driving experience is subjective enough that it is hard to say that any opinion is objectively superior to that of another. Nothing you described as being unique to BMW seems to be that different from what a porsche customer would say about their, entirely different, cars. What you see as a lowering of standards and unfortunate compromise can just as easily interpreted as old people complaining about the good old days.

In the end, my problem is that I don't think someone who prefers the driving experience of the f30 to that of the e30 should be dismissed as wrongheaded or chasing lexus. Nor do I think anyone should be criticized for liking their car.

Obviously, that's wrong when BMW customers criticize people who like the ATS, but when people criticize f30s (for the right reasons with historical references) it's certainly ok.

Isn't it possible that boltjames really thinks his car is perfect for him? Why begrudge his happiness. Why spend 20 years complaining that no one is building the right type of car? Get what you like and enjoy it.
Because he's been shitting on the Cadillac ATS since the start of this thread and he's not even seen one (other than at a mall) nor driven it. If he's happy driving his F30, than great for him, but he doesn't need to crap all over the ATS like it has no comparative value to the F30, or any BMW 3-series. He's made idiotic statements, and we've called him on it. That's all.
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      11-06-2012, 12:08 AM   #153
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Because he's been shitting on the Cadillac ATS since the start of this thread and he's not even seen one (other than at a mall) nor driven it. If he's happy driving his F30, than great for him, but he doesn't need to crap all over the ATS like it has no comparative value to the F30, or any BMW 3-series. He's made idiotic statements, and we've called him on it. That's all.
There's nothing idiotic about the ATS except, of course, its existence.

Show me your posts in a Cadillac forum.

Thought so.

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      11-06-2012, 12:10 AM   #154
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So donít give me any crap about being an ďElitistĒ.
That's a very elitist statement.

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