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      12-13-2012, 02:19 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by sean10mm View Post
Hahaha, no, this is all wrong.

You can't chip an N55 to hit 400+ HP. You'll need, at a minimum, a HFC and full exhaust and custom tune to do that, and nobody even offers that yet. That assumes the stock turbo can even hold boost at high enough RPM to get there, which is a big "if" itself. Hell, the M Performance power kit adds all of 20 HP. That's the "upgraded chip" you're betting so much on.

Then at a minimum you need to add the M Performance suspension and M Performance brakes. Plus a limited slip diff nobody is even offering for the F30 yet.

At this point you've spend maybe $10,000 and voided your warranty.
Agreed but I would go one step further to suggest the M performance parts for the F30 will be very different than what ends up on the next M3.
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      12-13-2012, 02:27 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gthal View Post
Agreed but I would go one step further to suggest the M performance parts for the F30 will be very different than what ends up on the next M3.
Actually, if you go off of older N55 tunes (Vishnu/Dinan), getting 350hp/400tq is doable with tune alone.

Add in upgraded CAI/IC.
Add in DP with HFC.
Add in 3" CB.

You'll be well over the M3/M4 numbers. It still comes in cheaper too - the warranty issue can be addressed with Dinan parts for all of the above (minus DP/CB).
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      12-13-2012, 02:43 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shivaswrath View Post
You'll be well over the M3/M4 numbers. It still comes in cheaper too - the warranty issue can be addressed with Dinan parts for all of the above (minus DP/CB).

The only people who believe a tune + a few additional upgrades makes an 335i as good as an M3, are 335i owners

Once you own an M3, you'll know what's really going on... those folks in Garching have some real magic they put in the M cars.
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      12-13-2012, 03:08 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shivaswrath View Post
Actually, if you go off of older N55 tunes (Vishnu/Dinan), getting 350hp/400tq is doable with tune alone.

Add in upgraded CAI/IC.
Add in DP with HFC.
Add in 3" CB.

You'll be well over the M3/M4 numbers. It still comes in cheaper too - the warranty issue can be addressed with Dinan parts for all of the above (minus DP/CB).
I'm not disputing this. If pure acceleration #s are all that matter to you then you are correct. It is little surprise that a tune can generate more power. The idea, however, is that power is only one piece of the puzzle. Getting a 3 series at the same overall level as the M3 would need a lot more work. Your warranty is then an issue so you could buy a 2 year old M3 for the same or similar price and have they complete car.

Also, for those who track their cars, power delivery is also important and the M3 can't be beat for this IMO. The engine is bred for track use.

But, if winning stop light races is what you value then an E9X with a tune and other upgrades is hard to beat.
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Last edited by gthal; 12-13-2012 at 03:15 PM.
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      12-13-2012, 03:16 PM   #71
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Let's look at Dinan's own site for this one...

Stage 3 N55 tune only gets you to 375HP and costs $2,500 + $1,599-$2,699 for the required high performance oil cooler + $1,599 for the required high-performance intercooler.

So where does the missing 40 HP come from, since the US spec M3 has 414 HP? GTM HFC is $650, Dinan high flow exhaust is $1,799, good intakes list for like $400. I'll be generous and call that "close enough."

LSD from Dinan is $2,999, M Perf BBK is like $3,000, Dinan Stage 3 suspension is $2,500.

That's like $17,000 on the low end just for parts, not including labor, or shipping, or sales tax. The hardware alone has essentially taken you from the starting MSRP for the 335i to the starting MSRP for the M3 before you've even gotten it in the mail or put it on the car.

Oh, and the ZF 6 speed in the F30 335i is only rated to 470 NM. That's about 350 ft-lbs. "Let's stick 400+ ft-lbs through it and drag race M3s, what could go wrong?"

(Yes, the M3 has the version of the ZF 6 speed rated for 600 NM.)

Last edited by sean10mm; 12-13-2012 at 03:27 PM.
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      12-13-2012, 03:27 PM   #72
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Look, I don't disagree AT ALL about cost benefit ratio...frankly, if I wasn't married, and didn't intend to have kids, an M3 would've made PERFECT sense.

There is no direct comparison at all...it's a trailing chase, like I outlined, and 335i owners will consistently be behind an M3 on a track. Acceleration wise, different story. The New M3 with the liquid-cooled IC will be substantially more consistent with it's power than ANY 335i tuned/tweaked.

With that said, the M3 won't be "as cheap" as a tuned 335i. At least not the ones sold here in CT...used 2010-2011 M3's are stickered at $70k (low miles). If I did an ED on the F30 M3...it would easily come to $90k. I might as well get a GT-R.
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      12-13-2012, 04:24 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shivaswrath View Post
At least not the ones sold here in CT...used 2010-2011 M3's are stickered at $70k (low miles). If I did an ED on the F30 M3...it would easily come to $90k. I might as well get a GT-R.
I dunno what's going on in CT, but I sold my 2012 M3 E92 w/2600 miles (fully loaded, MSRP $76K) for $61K. Listed for sale right here on M3Post.

That's gonna blow by any new F30, even with $10K in upgrades.
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      12-13-2012, 04:45 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamS View Post
I dunno what's going on in CT, but I sold my 2012 M3 E92 w/2600 miles (fully loaded, MSRP $76K) for $61K. Listed for sale right here on M3Post.

That's gonna blow by any new F30, even with $10K in upgrades.
FACEPALM. Would've totally bought yours.

Yes, agreed, would blow any F30 on a track. Light to Light? I guess time will tell once modded F30's come out. I REALLY need to get her on a Dyno over Xmas to see what we're putting down stock.
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      12-13-2012, 06:02 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sean10mm View Post
Hahaha, no, this is all wrong.

You can't chip an N55 to hit 400+ HP. You'll need, at a minimum, a HFC and full exhaust and custom tune to do that, and nobody even offers that yet. That assumes the stock turbo can even hold boost at high enough RPM to get there, which is a big "if" itself. Hell, the M Performance power kit adds all of 20 HP. That's the "upgraded chip" you're betting so much on.

Then at a minimum you need to add the M Performance suspension and M Performance brakes. Plus a limited slip diff nobody is even offering for the F30 yet.

At this point you've spend maybe $10,000 and voided your warranty.
I wasn't planning on going there. It was just a comment from a high end shop by my house who was talking about the Dinan chip which isn't out yet but doesn't void the warranty.

I personally will pass on the M Performance chip and see what happens when the Dinan chip comes available. The shop owner told me it will add roughly 75-78 more HP.
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      12-14-2012, 03:33 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ft1337 View Post
To each their own, but as far as I'm concerned it's M-Sport all the way. I just don't like all the "M" references with the M-Sport line. It's not an M so it shouldn't have "M" anywhere. It might just look like I couldn't afford a real M so got a bunch of "M" badges instead...
If you were plastering the badges on yourself, I'd defintially agree. I think nothing's more tacky than a bunch of self-congragulating decals.

However, it's BMW's call in this case. They, not us, decided having the M styling was a good idea. Like a limited or collector's edition, we got a package that "honors" M. Is it an M-car? No, and no one claimed it was. BMW certainly has no qualms about being seen as falsly advertising the car, so I don't think any of us need feel guilty about it. =)

My two cents. Personally, I'm going to think nothing of anyone giving me crap about it "not" being an M3.
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      12-14-2012, 08:46 AM   #77
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On the Msport the badges are on the inside.

The only exception is the wheels which I have upgraded anyway. So nowhere on the exterior is my car claiming to be an M.
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      12-14-2012, 10:14 AM   #78
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I've never met anyone in the real world who gave a shit about this M Sport vs. "real" M car stuff with the badges. Either they can already tell the difference between an M3 and an M Sport, or they don't know enough about BMWs to be impressed by an M3 compared to a regular 3 series anyway.
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      06-30-2014, 11:39 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsuvoi View Post
I just don't like all the "M" references with the M-Sport line. It's not an M so it shouldn't have "M" anywhere. It might just look like I couldn't afford a real M so got a bunch of "M" badges instead...
You think that's bad, my 320i w/ ZSP has M badges all over the place. I love the M wheel and shift knob (pretty much the reason I bought the car), but I laugh every time I think about //M badges on a 180HP car.

At least now that I have BMS Stage 1 it makes more power than an E36 M3. But so does a Hyundai Sonata, and I wouldn't go putting //M badges on one of those.
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      06-30-2014, 12:27 PM   #80
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I drove an M4 this weekend and absolutely loved it. I had six months left on the lease on my 2011 335i, and they offered to terminate the lease with no additional charges, then put me into the M4 for a lease payment that's about $400 more than I'm paying now.

Instead, I went home in a new 435i with an M Sport package, without any increase in lease payment. After driving the M4 (and Jaguar F-Coupes in S and R trim), I decided the 435i is a better daily driver, but it still has plenty of power and handles well.

I really don't care if somebody in an M car has a problem with a couple of the badges the factory slapped on. At least in my area, the vast majority of M owners will never do a trackday and really have no idea what to to with the car.

It's kind of like the guys who buy a new GSXR1000, then ride around in shorts and a t-shirt, awkwardly sticking out a knee in turns when there's no way they're going to drag it (which is lucky for them, because they'd rip off the skin if they ever got a bare knee down, anyway). If you look at their rear tires, you'll find huge chicken strips.
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      06-30-2014, 01:11 PM   #81
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JK479, if you do order a sport and want the burlewood trim, order the anthracite and I'll trade you my burlewood.
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      06-30-2014, 01:18 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlmesq View Post
I drove an M4 this weekend and absolutely loved it. I had six months left on the lease on my 2011 335i, and they offered to terminate the lease with no additional charges, then put me into the M4 for a lease payment that's about $400 more than I'm paying now.

Instead, I went home in a new 435i with an M Sport package, without any increase in lease payment. After driving the M4 (and Jaguar F-Coupes in S and R trim), I decided the 435i is a better daily driver, but it still has plenty of power and handles well.

I really don't care if somebody in an M car has a problem with a couple of the badges the factory slapped on. At least in my area, the vast majority of M owners will never do a trackday and really have no idea what to to with the car.

It's kind of like the guys who buy a new GSXR1000, then ride around in shorts and a t-shirt, awkwardly sticking out a knee in turns when there's no way they're going to drag it (which is lucky for them, because they'd rip off the skin if they ever got a bare knee down, anyway). If you look at their rear tires, you'll find huge chicken strips.
That's pretty funny and pretty true.
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      06-30-2014, 05:23 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by JOHNBMWM5 View Post
M Sport for me no question, you can keep the rest.
Same here M8te!
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      06-30-2014, 09:33 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cfichman
Multiple BMW enthusiasts have told me they hated the f30 until they saw my AW m sport
Agree. Wouldn't have considered the f30 if it weren't for m sport.
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      07-01-2014, 01:27 PM   #85
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I for one do prefer the sport "red" accent over the M Sport "blue" one.
And I do appreciate the stitching for the steering wheel.
Also the fact that in the doors the plate reads sport instead of the //M.

As for the exterior, I do prefer the M Sport appearance, more aggressive and better look IMO.

So since I already had the 403m wheels, I did the best of both world, debadged the exterior and ordered an M Sport aerodynamic retrofit, complete with the M Performance front lip.

Should be painted and installed in one to two weeks.
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      07-01-2014, 05:47 PM   #86
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With the numbers actually out now for the M4....I still stand by what I said.

$400 more for an M4 lease??!! I would've taken it over an M sport 435i...and that's come from a guy with every M performance part out there including an LSD!
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