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      11-01-2012, 01:06 AM   #1
JonoNZ
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Volkswagen GTI owner looking to upgrade - expectations too high?

Hi from Auckland, New Zealand.

I've been looking at the new F30 3-Series for a number of months now. I have a 2006 Volkswagen Mk5 GTI with DSG gearbox. The 328i is on my short list of possible cars to upgrade to. If I went with the 328 the M Sport is a must as personally it's the only body kit that I like, but I understand that is personal taste.

I have also spent quite a bit of time reading reviews and forums like this one, I have my dream config and set and priced out!

Well I finally got to take a 328i for a test drive today. They only had the Luxury Line available for test drive, so perhaps this doesn't give the best indication of what the M Sport would look like.

Here are my first impressions:

Engine. Great and better in every respect to the 2.0T in the GTI (which is widely acknowledged as one of the best in it's class) with one exception: noise. The GTI still sounds way better. The power and torque from low revs is amazing in the 328i.

Gearbox. I test drive the 8 speed sport auto. This is pretty nice and close enough to the DSG I have in the GTI. I didn't feel like I had quite the same control of it as I do in the DSG which I drive 98% of time in manual mode. This may just come down to being used to it.

Handling. This was the big disappointment to me. I drove it in Sport mode mostly. I was surprised at the level of body roll at high speed around corners (tested on a favourite offramp of mine). Also the whole car seemed to jump and float when travelling over the expansion joint on the motorway/freeway at high speed. Do the various handling modes (Eco Pro, Comfort, Sport, Sport+) affect the suspension on the Luxury 328i, or is just engine, gearbox, steering?

Fit and finish, build quality. Pretty mediocre really. I think the finish in my 6 year old GTI overall is better. Some uneven panel gaps in around the doors and windscreen, sharp edged plastics, etc. Cheapish looking plastics and surfaces in the boot/trunk area. I don't expect top-end build but this looked like a bit of step down from even the GTI.

Technology. Great. Loved the HUD, iDrive, reversing cameras, Pro Nav, etc. All good.

There really is no substitute for a test drive, and unfortunately I came away a little disappointed today. I was sure I wanted to order a 328i M Sport today, not so sure now. I will go for another test drive soon, though.

Are my expectations unrealistically high?

Interested in others thoughts.
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      11-01-2012, 01:47 AM   #2
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I can offer some insight, as I recently traded my GTI Mk6 for a 335i M Sport.

Engine. I can't knock the 328i as it has a great motor, but it wasn't what I was looking for. Like you, I had quite high expectations coming from the GTI. It just wasn't a big enough leap in the performance department. The N55 engine is a different story, though. There's a reason why this engine receives outstanding acclaim and reviews. The numbers are great, 0-60mph in 4.7 seconds, 1/4-mile in 13 seconds, etc., but it's not just about the numbers. The 335i doesn't run out of breath in the way the 328i and GTI does. It just keeps pulling and pulling, has a great sound and just feels more solid. That's what sold me.

Gearbox. There is no doubt that DSG is a sportier transmission, but BMW's sport automatic comes damn close and is slightly smoother. I told myself I would never own a standard automatic after driving DSG, but I'm really impressed with this gearbox. It seems to shift nearly as fast as DSG when you have it in Sport or Manual mode.

Handling. Because of the considerably longer wheelbase on the 3-series, there is an adjustment curve when you're coming from the GTI. After two weeks in the 335i, I believe it handles about the same as the GTI, if not better - especially when you consider the size and weight. I love the way this car handles!

Fit and finish, build quality. I have to disagree. I feel like BMW has a slightly tighter fit/finish and build quality. To me, it is certainly a step up from the GTI. I can definitely see your POV if you test drove a standard model 328i, or even the Sport model. But the M Sport has some really nice details that sets it apart from the rest of the pack. The steering wheel alone (shared with the M6) gives it a completely different feel.

Technology. Ditto

This is my first BMW and I don't see myself ever going back. Before the Mk6 GTI, I owned a Mk5 GTI and Mk4 R32. I also owned a VW CC and Audi TT. I've always been a Volkswagen/Audi guy. Moving up to a 335i, I couldn't be happier. It really is the Ultimate Driving Machine.
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      11-01-2012, 01:49 AM   #3
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Interesting and detailed take on the F30 Series.

At present I drive a Mk6 GTI and the F30 has a superior fit and finish to it. It is also a more comfortable car to drive. The Mk6 is a step up from the Mk 5, so I am a little surprised by your comparison.

I drove an F30 320d M Sport with M Sport Adaptive suspension + 8 Speed transmission and quite simply felt that it was much, much better than my GTI. It was smoother, quieter, had better steering, had lighter controls and I enjoyed driving it much more. It felt frictionless. The GTI felt rough and clunky compared to the BMW. The GTI, with the adaptive dampers in 'comfort mode', was not a patch to the BMW's smoothness in 'comfort' mode.

I was so impressed, that I bought two 330d M Sports.

But as they say, ETTO.
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      11-01-2012, 02:08 AM   #4
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Thanks guys, really appreciate your input.

My local dealer had a customer M Sport in a week or so back, so I got to see it - but not drive it. Totally agree that the wheel and body kit is a vast improvement over the standard, and in my opinion essential.

The Luxury I drove seemed very ordinary I have to say, but I'm pleased to hear other GTI drivers have warmed to the M Sport.

My comments on fit and finish relate to things like gaps in the panels that come up in front of the windscreen, on the test drive car they were huge (5mm wide on one maybe 7mm on the other) and the pieces of trim moved when you pressed them. Also, the trunk (known was the boot in New Zealand!) had some pretty rough looking lining and hard plastics that were already scratched. Honestly, the GTI linings are of a higher quality in my opinion. General dash areas was fine, but I still think the BMW design is slightly fussy with lots of pieces, strips and overlayed sections which aren't quite my thing, but I'd get used to it.

After the Luxury, jumping back into the GTI felt nimble, sharp and great fun to drive, something was definitely missing in the car I drove. For me, anyway.

I think I need to test drive an M Sport, and soon!
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      11-01-2012, 02:25 AM   #5
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Here's my take:

FYI, I own a MK6 GTI, and have had a loaner F30 for a week while our F25 X3 is at the dealer awaiting delivery of a piece of seat trim (hurricane Sandy delays).

At first, I wasn't super impressed with the F30 328i, since it's pretty much a stripper model (not even a USB port). After a couple of days though, I will say that the F30 is a far easier car to live with every day than a GTI, and is quite a bit better than the E90 in many ways. My thoughts are:

Engine:
You're right on the exhaust note. However, the N20 is a phenomenal engine. Yes, the N55 is a beast, but it also drinks gas (my 12 month MPG average for the X3 with the N55 is 18MPG.). I have a lead foot, but my (so far) 200 mile test drive has yielded around 24.5MPG with zero highway commute. The N20's weakest point is it's sound. The GTI sounds throatier, while the 328i just sounds like the average 4 cylinder engine. Easily forgivable for that kind of performance

Gearbox:
My GTI is a manual, so I won't compare the two. The ZF 8-speed auto is IMHO the best in the industry right now, bar none. Definitely one of the best things the F25 platform has going for it, and it also works well in the F30.

Handling:
I would never expect a base 328i to out handle my GTI on Michelin Pilot SuperSports. That said, after flogging...er... testing the day-to-day handling characteristics of the 328, it clearly is an extremely competent chassis. A Sport model should easily outhandle a GTI and give you the feel you're looking for.

Fit/Finish:
Let's face it - the GTI is one well-finished car. The F30 has some questionable choices of color placement in base trim (no contrasting colors, stitching, etc), but it is still a very nicely finished car. If I were to pick one up, it'd be black with red accents and full leather.

Technology:
The loaner I have is a stripper. However, our F25 has Nav and other goodies. Tech-wise, BMW trumps VW & Audi right now- especially from a usability standpoint.

Overall, the two cars are designed to provide different experiences. Would I sell my GTI and pick up a 328? Probably not... but then again, I like hot hatches, and I don't have to drive it when I don't feel like it. I would definitely encourage my wife to pick up a 328i as her daily driver, though.

Last edited by teombe; 11-01-2012 at 02:31 AM.
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      11-01-2012, 04:54 AM   #6
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I've been doing some research on the various suspension setups on the F30.

Consensus is that there are four types;
Standard (non adjustable despite mode) - fitted to Luxury and Modern
Sport (non adjustable despite mode) - fitted to Sport
M Sport - 10mm lower and stiffer (non adjustable despite mode)
Adaptive - 10mm lower and adjustable by electrically adjusted dampers

...is this correct? Any M Sport owners who have driven a Luxury or Modern and can comment on the handling, body roll differences? Or experiences of Adaptive? I was planning on including Adaptive in my build.
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      11-01-2012, 05:40 AM   #7
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I personally like a firmer ride... it depends how's the road where you are
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      11-01-2012, 06:02 AM   #8
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See if you can find a car with M Adaptive Suspension and have a play
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      11-01-2012, 06:04 AM   #9
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Maybe you need to look at the M135?
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      11-01-2012, 06:07 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dabaitu View Post
Maybe you need to look at the M135?
^This^

It's the most obvious replacement for the GTi and better in every way
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      11-01-2012, 06:11 AM   #11
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Hello,
in your opinion, between the Golf GTI MK6 and the new F30, what is more comfortable?

(2 months ago I went on the GOLF GTI MK6 and F30 modern line, i the feeling that the GOLF GTI MK6 was more comfortable, i must admit that when I got on F30 I was in a hurry, it may be that I tried it with superficiality.)
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      11-01-2012, 06:55 AM   #12
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Adaptive is amazing, coupled with VSS you can feel quite a change in how the car behaves and feels when you go from comfort to sport. I would never get a car without them now that I have experienced them.
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      11-01-2012, 08:30 AM   #13
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I owned a MKV GTI with DSG. While I agree that the exhaust note was better in the GTI, the rest of the package (stock for stock) in the 328i is head and shoulders better.

If you test drove a car without adaptive suspension, then the sport mode did not change handling. A car with Luxury package will not handle as well as one with Sport, and not as well as one with M Adaptive. The suspension is softer, as are the tires. Having said that I have some seat time in a base model 328i on the track, and a ton of seat time in the GTI on the track, and I was impressed with the base model.

One difference is the jump from fwd to rwd. It is a huge improvement in handling dynamics. But the 328i is bigger and heavier than the GTI so it may not feel as nimble. They are two very different cars oriented toward very different drivers.

Regarding quality my GTI rattled, squeaked, groaned and had parts breaking constantly, from day one. The 328i is much more solidly built and the overall quality of the materials on the BMW are much higher. So I respectfully disagree with your assessment, but respect the difference of opinion.

Finally I personally found the DSG in the GTI to be awful. It was disobedient and thought for itself, even in manual mode. On the track and autocross course it was a disaster. In fact the DSG was one of the main reasons I sold the GTI - I desperately wanted to go back to a manual. On the track the 8 speed in the 328i (my car is a MT, but I drove a student's car at a driver's school) was much more accurate and predictable. It also shifted more smoothly and more consistently did what I wanted it to do. And as good at the DSG is, a real automatic transmission will always be smoother in daily driving.

In considering your purchase, accept that the BMW is a different car designed for a different buyer. It will feel larger and heavier, which it is. But I think the overall experience with the BMW is better and you should be happy with it.

Good luck!
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      11-01-2012, 08:37 AM   #14
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Gearbox "I test drive the 8 speed sport auto. This is pretty nice and close enough to the DSG I have in the GTI. I didn't feel like I had quite the same control of it as I do in the DSG which I drive 98% of time in manual mode."
I don't think the two technical concepts are comparable, certainly not in the way you describe.
DSG is a dual clutch (more or less nervous) transmission; the BMW 8-gear is something even a Rolls-Royce can dream about ) not even Mercedes has something similar (in their flagship car). The BMW automatic is smooth and refined, with a responsive character of an Arabian pure blood horse.
VW DSG is a ticky thing; not pleasant at all.



Handling "I was surprised at the level of body roll at high speed around corners."
The wheelbase of the F30 is way longer than that of the Golf. A Golf with such a wheelbase would probably just make a straight road out of your bends (and make some wood for the coming winter in the process).
A BMW 135M is something comparable to your Golf.
It says a lot that such a sedan can hold its own in comparison.

Another question is suspension; the Adaptive suspension for 1.100€ brings a note of a racing car if set to Sport+; otherwise you can order M sport suspension or even take a tuner offering; the last possibilities are going to transform your car into a race car.
I personally prefer Comfort mode (Adaptive suspension); so BMW now really offers a car that suits very different requests.

The F30 responds to different needs.
With the M-sport package it can be however a race car for a (not yet completely) grown up VW GTI driver .

Last edited by Antares; 11-01-2012 at 08:58 AM.
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      11-01-2012, 08:52 AM   #15
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You are going to love the car, it is very well built (much better car that my previous 2009 SHAWD Acura TL). My only regret is getting 328 instead of 335 but it's still fun to drive

Cheers!
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      11-01-2012, 09:17 AM   #16
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I traded my MKV Gti for a 335i Sport.

My first test drive was a 328i luxury and I was really not impressed did not feel like I was upgrading from the Gti. I then test drove the 335i Sport and it felt worlds a part from the 328i luxury. I will say even on the 328i there are still some disappointments like the steering wheel is not thick enough and I really want to change it sometime soon. I cant give a comparison on suspension as I had a full coilover system on My gti and I had purchased H&R Sport springs before my car was delivered so those were installed right away!

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Last edited by ric124; 11-01-2012 at 09:36 AM.
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      11-01-2012, 09:27 AM   #17
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As others have said, you absolutely need to drive a model with sport suspension or adaptive M suspension. It's a totally different car. Also, Variable Sport Steering and the Sport Auto are a must if you're looking for the best driving feel.
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      11-01-2012, 09:31 AM   #18
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Handling is definitely going to be better with a sport suspension or adaptive m suspension equipped model. The luxury model may have also come with lower performance tires than a sport/m sport would, which can of course make a big difference.

There's no getting around the F30 being a bigger car than the GTI though, it's going to feel pretty different.
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      11-01-2012, 10:06 AM   #19
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The M-Sport has the Sport suspension which others have noted makes a noticeable difference compared to the Lux and base. Also the steering wheel on the M-Sport is great and the ZHP shift knob is nice too.
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      11-01-2012, 10:49 AM   #20
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My understanding (at least in the US) is that sport line and m-sport both have the same lowered and sport suspension. Exception is xdrive models which either have standard xdrive suspension or non-lowered adaptive suspension. Still unclear to me if xdrive adaptive suspension has same springs as standard xdrive and just adds adjustible dampers or it's identical to the non-xdrive adaptive suspension just not lowered.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonoNZ View Post
I've been doing some research on the various suspension setups on the F30.
Consensus is that there are four types;
Standard (non adjustable despite mode) - fitted to Luxury and Modern
Sport (non adjustable despite mode) - fitted to Sport
M Sport - 10mm lower and stiffer (non adjustable despite mode)
Adaptive - 10mm lower and adjustable by electrically adjusted dampers

...is this correct? Any M Sport owners who have driven a Luxury or Modern and can comment on the handling, body roll differences? Or experiences of Adaptive? I was planning on including Adaptive in my build.
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      11-01-2012, 10:53 AM   #21
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Sport and M Sport suspensions are the same thing, at least in the US. It's item # 704 in the ordering guide.
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      11-01-2012, 11:24 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cardsdoc View Post
My understanding (at least in the US) is that sport line and m-sport both have the same lowered and sport suspension. Exception is xdrive models which either have standard xdrive suspension or non-lowered adaptive suspension. Still unclear to me if xdrive adaptive suspension has same springs as standard xdrive and just adds adjustible dampers or it's identical to the non-xdrive adaptive suspension just not lowered.
As far as I can tell its most like just a damper change. for example you order Sport line then you will get M-Sport springs with the sport dampers and if you change that to adaptive M you will still get the M-Sport springs but with Adaptive M dampers.
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