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      11-10-2012, 09:42 AM   #1
ctwickman
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Why would anyone get the ActiveHybrid3?

I want to like the AH3 and am giving them a serious look. But, from their own web site:

AH3:
0-60 - 5.3 sec
MPG - 25/33
HP - 335 TQ - 332

335:
0-60 - 4.8 sec
MPG - 21/31
HP - 300 TQ - 300

How is a car with more HP and torque, and sold as a high performance version, SLOWER than the other car? Does it at least feel faster, subjectively?

All I see is one would spend a lot more money for the AH3 and get a slower car with only an extra 3 mpg combined. What am I missing?

Thanks.
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      11-10-2012, 09:47 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctwickman View Post
I want to like the AH3 and am giving them a serious look. But, from their own web site:

AH3:
0-60 - 5.3 sec
MPG - 25/33
HP - 335 TQ - 332

335:
0-60 - 4.8 sec
MPG - 21/31
HP - 300 TQ - 300

How is a car with more HP and torque, and sold as a high performance version, SLOWER than the other car? Does it at least feel faster, subjectively?

All I see is one would spend a lot more money for the AH3 and get a slower car with only an extra 3 mpg combined. What am I missing?

Thanks.
I cant elaborate on the feel, I have not driven one. THe car is slower probably because its heavy with all the batteries and hybrid stuff. Im sure BMW underrated the car's mpg severely. My car is suppose to get 33mpg highway and I was seeing 35.9 on a 4 hour highway trip.

The HP numbers are however off. I believe its 335hp 335ft-lb. I could be slightly off however.

Regardless I agree, can you justify the added cost? For Me ABSOLUTELY NOT! The price of that car is 1M/M3 territory. NO thanks.
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      11-10-2012, 03:45 PM   #3
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But, but....you'll get the new Nav!
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      11-10-2012, 04:07 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dd1981 View Post
Im sure BMW underrated the car's mph severely. My car is suppose to get 33mph highway and I was seeing 35.9 on a 4 hour highway trip.
I imagine you meant miles per gallon (mpg). BMW does not over or under-rate the mpg listed on the official car sticker, rather the dashboard is known to be "optimistic" about mpg calculations.
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      11-10-2012, 04:32 PM   #5
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For those who live in a city and want a 335i, it makes sense. You can use EV mode in the city and the N55 when you get out!
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      11-10-2012, 04:47 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dd1981 View Post

Regardless I agree, can you justify the added cost? For Me ABSOLUTELY NOT! The price of that car is 1M/M3 territory. NO thanks.
"Added cost" is a bit exaggerated here. First, there is a $3500 Eco-credit, which makes the delta between AH3 and 335i an even $3000. Second, dealers will likely be more willing to negotiate to (close to) invoice on an AH3, vs. a 335i. Mine dealer was, giving me very close to invoice (before any incentives) on the AH3. My delta in price vs. a comparably-optioned 335i. So my delta was $1000. Now, for that $1000 difference, you get several "free" options on the AH3, Lane Departure Warning/Forward Collision Warning (5AD) and Speed Limit Info (8TH), both $0 options, savings of $700. Heated steering wheel is also $0. So, now my delta is ~$300. For that $300, I get the updated Nav, and guaranteed improved fuel economy. Seemed like a no-brainer to me. Especially considering the AH3 felt faster than a 335i, during my test drive.
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      11-10-2012, 04:50 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeRandomer123 View Post
For those who live in a city and want a 335i, it makes sense. You can use EV mode in the city and the N55 when you get out!
I live in the city of Chicago and really want to like the car. But it is +4 mpg in city driving AND slower than the 335, and it doesn't come in AWD for the winter.

If these numbers are true and there is nothing I'm missing, I predict the AH3 will be short lived. If someone like me wants one and can't figure out what the real benefits are they have a problem. I would gladly like to be corrected.
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      11-10-2012, 04:55 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamS View Post
"Added cost" is a bit exaggerated here. First, there is a $3500 Eco-credit, which makes the delta between AH3 and 335i an even $3000. Second, dealers will likely be more willing to negotiate to (close to) invoice on an AH3, vs. a 335i. Mine dealer was, giving me very close to invoice (before any incentives) on the AH3. My delta in price vs. a comparably-optioned 335i. So my delta was $1000. Now, for that $1000 difference, you get several "free" options on the AH3, Lane Departure Warning/Forward Collision Warning (5AD) and Speed Limit Info (8TH), both $0 options, savings of $700. Heated steering wheel is also $0. So, now my delta is ~$300. For that $300, I get the updated Nav, and guaranteed improved fuel economy. Seemed like a no-brainer to me. Especially considering the AH3 felt faster than a 335i, during my test drive.
But the AH3 is not faster, it is slower. And doesn't the 328i do near AH3 numbers, with mpg of 23/33 and 5.8s at 0-60, for thousands cheaper still?
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      11-10-2012, 04:59 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctwickman View Post
But the AH3 is not faster, it is slower. And doesn't the 328i do near AH3 numbers, with mpg of 23/33 and 5.8s at 0-60, for thousands cheaper still?
I've had fairly extensive time behind the wheel of the AH3, 335i, and 328i. The AH3 feels faster than either of the other two. Mind you, I'm coming from a 2012 M3.
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      11-10-2012, 05:29 PM   #10
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The australian spec hybrid is not much more expensive than the 335i yet is loaded with way more toys as standard. I think that is due to the luxury car taxes favouring fuel efficient cars.

Plus if you live in an urban area, the economy benefits are great. I think the active hybrid is a no brainer.
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      11-10-2012, 05:44 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheObviousChild View Post
But, but....you'll get the new Nav!
LMAO
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Originally Posted by EnerJi View Post
I imagine you meant miles per gallon (mpg). BMW does not over or under-rate the mpg listed on the official car sticker, rather the dashboard is known to be "optimistic" about mpg calculations.
Sorry yes i meant mpg (corrected). yes you are correct about the dash info being way off, the only problem is I didnt go by that. i calculated the good old fashion way. miles traveld divided by gallons filled obviously and to my surprise the info on the dash was off, only it was reading lower mpg than i was really getting wich was 35.9. it was reading 34.7.
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      11-10-2012, 06:19 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamS View Post
"Added cost" is a bit exaggerated here. First, there is a $3500 Eco-credit...
You really can' reference credits or rebates when you're trying to do an apples-to-apples comparison. Credits and rebates are only available when a manufacturer is having trouble moving product. I have a feeling a great number of people are in the same boat as the OP with regard to the justifications for the AH3 over a 335i, otherwise there would be no credit.

I think BMW hasn't done enough to show the benefits of the AH3 that might justify the premium. The whole AH line is rather new, so I'm sure they're still finding their way.

It's very difficult (if not impossible) to do a reliable comparison of the two cars on paper. The EPA ratings are based on a standard drive cycle which isn't designed to reap the benefits of the hybrid tech. I'll bet real world numbers will be much higher in an urban application (or areas with crippling congestion). Of course the ASS will probably provide similar benefits. Again, the standard EPA cycle wouldn't really show its benefits either.
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      11-10-2012, 06:29 PM   #13
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Quote:
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You really can' reference credits or rebates when you're trying to do an apples-to-apples comparison. Credits and rebates are only available when a manufacturer is having trouble moving product. I have a feeling a great number of people are in the same boat as the OP with regard to the justifications for the AH3 over a 335i, otherwise there would be no credit.

I think BMW hasn't done enough to show the benefits of the AH3 that might justify the premium. The whole AH line is rather new, so I'm sure they're still finding their way.

It's very difficult (if not impossible) to do a reliable comparison of the two cars on paper. The EPA ratings are based on a standard drive cycle which isn't designed to reap the benefits of the hybrid tech. I'll bet real world numbers will be much higher in an urban application (or areas with crippling congestion). Of course the ASS will probably provide similar benefits. Again, the standard EPA cycle wouldn't really show its benefits either.
For the time being, it think you should consider the AH3 credit, since anyone can use it, and it effectively narrows the 335i price delta. Without the credit, I personally would not have considered it. The "premium" I (personally) was willing to pay was only ~$1K vs a 335i. Much more, and the AH3 would have been a tough sell, even to me.

The ASS of the AH3 is quite different than the other F30s. For that reason alone, I expect real world combined mpg to be noticeably better than the EPA 28mpg rating.
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      11-10-2012, 06:31 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by SamS View Post
For the time being, it think you should consider the AH3 credit, since anyone can use it, and it effectively narrows the 335i price delta. Without the credit, I personally would not have considered it. The "premium" I (personally) was willing to pay was only ~$1K vs a 335i. Much more, and the AH3 would have been a tough sell, even to me.

The ASS of the AH3 is quite different than the other F30s. For that reason alone, I expect real world combined mpg to be noticeably better than the EPA 28mpg rating.
I think the ASS will be lightyears better because it's using the electric motor instead of the starter. Should be much smoother and more efficient.
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      11-10-2012, 06:38 PM   #15
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I think the ASS will be lightyears better because it's using the electric motor instead of the starter. Should be much smoother and more efficient.
It feels fantastic. Only on rare occasion can you even discern that the engine shut off, or came back on.
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      11-10-2012, 07:58 PM   #16
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Is the eco credit a cash credit or income tax credit?
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      11-10-2012, 08:04 PM   #17
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Is the eco credit a cash credit or income tax credit?
Cash credit, goes against final negotiated price.
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      11-10-2012, 09:36 PM   #18
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Cash credit, goes against final negotiated price.
Thanks. Checked it out and since I'm already getting my 335i at invoice the delta is $3K. Sure you get a couple extra toys thrown in, but they aren't toys I care about.

Given that this is 1st year of the AH3, and that its a new approach for BMW, I think I'll pass for this generation. I also read the car and driver first drive where they explain the AH3 technology. Its quite complicated stuff! As soon as I read about the engine shutting down while coasting on the highway, I said NO WAY. Let them perfect that before I have one in my driveway.

Don't get me wrong, I wish you tons of luck and happiness with the car. And a bit of me will be envious of your new Nav system. But then again in my 2010 I think I used the actual Nav maybe 20 times in 3 years. Its more about all the other stuff that comes along with it such as heads up display, etc..

In case you didn't read the Car and Driver First drive, here's the link:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...t-drive-review
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      11-10-2012, 10:28 PM   #19
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Thanks. Checked it out and since I'm already getting my 335i at invoice the delta is $3K. Sure you get a couple extra toys thrown in, but they aren't toys I care about.

Given that this is 1st year of the AH3, and that its a new approach for BMW, I think I'll pass for this generation. I also read the car and driver first drive where they explain the AH3 technology. Its quite complicated stuff! As soon as I read about the engine shutting down while coasting on the highway, I said NO WAY. Let them perfect that before I have one in my driveway.

Don't get me wrong, I wish you tons of luck and happiness with the car. And a bit of me will be envious of your new Nav system. But then again in my 2010 I think I used the actual Nav maybe 20 times in 3 years. Its more about all the other stuff that comes along with it such as heads up display, etc..

In case you didn't read the Car and Driver First drive, here's the link:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...t-drive-review
I don't mind being a potential guinea pig. All F30s are so computer-controlled and complicated that any serious electrical or computer fault will leave you stranded. A Prius uses a similar electro-mechanical design, and I don't see many Prius owners on the side of the road, or with pangs of anxiety

In addition, I'm looking forward to driving something rather unique. The F30 335i is a dime-a-dozen car (no offense to anyone!), so this will offer something a bit unique and fun for both myself and passengers.

I think the new Nav has great potential. Siri integration, Advanced real time traffic, etc. BMW is probably just scratching the surface of what they can do with it, over the next 3-4 years. And that's probably how long I'd keep it. I'm sure I'll get the itch a few years to move back towards an M3/M4.
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      11-10-2012, 10:44 PM   #20
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Where are you getting your numbers from? Yes, we know the numbers on BMW USA is wrong but on there the AH3 is a little faster than the manual and .1 slower than the AT. We know so far real world 335i does about 4.7 and only time will tell how much AH3 will do but im predicting 4.5 - 4.7.

These numbers are copied directly from BMWUSA... see link below

335i:
Performance
Acceleration 0-60 mph – Manual transmission 5.4 sec
Acceleration 0-60 mph – Automatic transmission 5.1 sec

AH3:
Performance
Acceleration 0-60 mph – Automatic transmission 5.2 sec

http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...fications.aspx
http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...fications.aspx
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