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      10-16-2012, 12:27 AM   #1
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Another ATS Review

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      10-16-2012, 06:58 AM   #2
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No BMW owner is buying a Cadillac unless its an 80th birthday present for their grandfather.

Can we please stop with the ridiculous "The ATS Is The Scary 3 Series Killer" threads already?

BJ
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      10-16-2012, 07:04 AM   #3
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Certainly isn't a 3 Series "killer" - that word needs to stop being used.
A competitor though? Yes. A good on? Yes, very - surprisingly!

King of the hill? 3 Series.
Second, A4/ATS
Third, C-Class in my opinion.
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      10-16-2012, 07:06 AM   #4
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0-60 in 6 seconds, it's rwd layout and its looks.

I like it. A lot.

Cheers
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      10-16-2012, 07:24 AM   #5
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who would buy this
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      10-16-2012, 07:24 AM   #6
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I drove a CTS-V on a track in Vegas a few years ago, and it was the real deal. But the internal quality was not up to par and the whole thing felt cheap. I believe my signature says it all...
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Originally Posted by JBasham
Caddy ATS . . . finally, a decent rental car option.
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      10-16-2012, 07:46 AM   #7
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It's disappointing that this car is so close yet very important details like engine note and the 6MT operation are so poor. They are specifically targeting the 3 series and have exceeded it in handling at the limit but in everyday driving the BMW seems to be a much better car.

It's about the comprehensive approach to engineering a car. BMW designed a brand new world class turbo I4 engine which in most accounts (except the sound at idle) is superb and the BMW 6MT is precise and solid. BMW never screws up engine dynamics.

I have to imagine that the GM bean counters once again have forced compromises in both the engine and transmission. It's a shame.
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      10-16-2012, 08:22 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boltjames View Post
No BMW owner is buying a Cadillac unless its an 80th birthday present for their grandfather.

Can we please stop with the ridiculous "The ATS Is The Scary 3 Series Killer" threads already?

BJ
Cadillac, IMO, has been doing it (sporty sedans) right since the CTS-V.
They are different, but certainly fun cars to drive.

If I weren't buying a BMW, I'd probably go for the ATS or CTS.
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      10-16-2012, 08:25 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsedlak View Post
Cadillac, IMO, has been doing it (sporty sedans) right since the CTS-V.
They are different, but certainly fun cars to drive.

If I weren't buying a BMW, I'd probably go for the ATS or CTS.
Could be.

But the point is that there is a BMW, therefore you're not buying a Cadillac. This must be the 15th thread on the ATS subject, and they all end the same way. No BMW is buying one. In fact, if you go visit a Cadillac forum, they aren't buying them either.

It's a car with no customers. GM will find that all they did was create a cheaper, smaller Caddy and instead of BMW owners they're getting Buick, Chevrolet, and other Cadillac owners to bite.

GM has shut down the advertising, too. While BMW is going crazy pushing the 3 Series (now that XDrive's are in stock) and Audi, Lexus and the usual suspects are gearing up for the Christmas push, GM has taken all that money they spend on the ATS during the summer and moved it to cheaper cars. It's over.

BJ
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      10-16-2012, 08:27 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boltjames View Post
No BMW owner is buying a Cadillac unless its an 80th birthday present for their grandfather.

Can we please stop with the ridiculous "The ATS Is The Scary 3 Series Killer" threads already?

BJ
its possible...

i mean, we have people with millions of dollars in the bank and tens of thousands worth of rolexes driving the 328i.

anything is possible in this world of crazy people.
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      10-16-2012, 08:38 AM   #11
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its possible...

i mean, we have people with millions of dollars in the bank and tens of thousands worth of rolexes driving the 328i.

anything is possible in this world of crazy people.
Remember, the BMW 328i is the wealthy man's Accord. Makes him look smart, thrifty, and down-to-earth.

Any car with the "Cadillac" name on it makes him look weak.

BJ
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      10-16-2012, 09:01 AM   #12
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After two BMWs I was convinced I'd buy another. I leased the Z4 (82% residual!?) to bide my time when I traded my previous 335 to get the new one. After driving both the new 3 and the ATS, I prefer the handling of the ATS. F30 is not nearly as much fun as E90. BMW engines are superior, but will give up a little on the engine to gain in handling. I also prefer the CUE system to Idrive. Finally, I've had mechanical and/or electrical problems with both my BMWs, so ready to try something else. Cadillac's reliability has been good, so will go with the ATS with the 3.6 engine. While I've driven manual transmissions since I was 18, the autos are good enough now that I'm willing to make that change too. Maybe I'll come to regret the change, but willing to take the chance.

I don't really care what other people think my car says about me. I buy a car to satisfy me, and don't really care what others think. If BMW goes back to emphasizing performance over comfort and economy, I'll likely be back in a BMW in the future.

I'm always amazed at how sure people are of at the superiority of a particular car when they haven't driven the competitor.
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      10-16-2012, 09:03 AM   #13
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Funny, pretentious BMW owners who scoff at a car that's closer to what BMW's used to be than the real deal. I've lost interest in the 3er, but this car should not be ignored. BMW has not exactly been hitting things out of any park recently. The F10 is a fat dog, the F30 is soft and has terrible steering and feels about as sporty as a fwd Lexus and Cadillac comes out and builds something truly competitive and all you can do is make fun of the brand.
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      10-16-2012, 02:02 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
Funny, pretentious BMW owners who scoff at a car that's closer to what BMW's used to be than the real deal. I've lost interest in the 3er, but this car should not be ignored. BMW has not exactly been hitting things out of any park recently. The F10 is a fat dog, the F30 is soft and has terrible steering and feels about as sporty as a fwd Lexus and Cadillac comes out and builds something truly competitive and all you can do is make fun of the brand.
A rather pretentious statement from someone who seems to disdain BMW boosterism. Hyberbolic analysis of the weaknesses of the f30 isn't going to persuade anyone, nor inspire confidence in your analysis of the strengths and weaknesses of various cars.

People should but the car they like best. If their vehicle makes them happy, it's none of our business trying to impute psychological forces behind their purchase.
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      10-16-2012, 02:10 PM   #15
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It's really amazing how much of people's egos are tied up in the things they own. If you like the 3 buy it. If you like the ATS buy it. For God's sake they're just cars.
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      10-16-2012, 02:50 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batislav View Post
A rather pretentious statement from someone who seems to disdain BMW boosterism. Hyberbolic analysis of the weaknesses of the f30 isn't going to persuade anyone, nor inspire confidence in your analysis of the strengths and weaknesses of various cars.

People should but the car they like best. If their vehicle makes them happy, it's none of our business trying to impute psychological forces behind their purchase.
Was I trying to persuade anyone? I just said that the F30 has poor steering and isn't as sporty as past 3ers, things that aren't hyperbole, having driven more than a few of every generation of 3er and tried to like and convince my wife she wanted an F30.

I do agree that folks should buy whatever they like though, which is why I initially posted that it's pretentious to claim that just because something is a Cadillac, no BMW buyer would cross shop it, or just because BMW builds something, it must be great.

I'm sort of the caught in my own catch though, my wife had a 135i, was convinced she wanted a new BMW and we really thought the F30 would be great, but after driving it we just didn't enjoy it, specifically the large size, lack of steering feel and non linear feel of the steering, plus just a general since of luxury over sportiness that past 3ers got right. So we bought a goofy, tall E91, aka an E84.

I know I'm in the F30 forum, talking poorly of what is for many buyers, the ideal car. I also realize that in terms of currently available sedans, there isn't a clear cut superior product. I'm simply lamenting that in the past, BMW came closer to providing what Cadillac is now offering, a sporty, relatively minimalist sporty sedan. With time, BMW has crept the 3er into what used to be 5er territory and they're being extremely slow to fill the gap of what the E30 and E46 sedans used to fill.

But who really cares, they're just cars.
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      10-16-2012, 03:31 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
Was I trying to persuade anyone? I just said that the F30 has poor steering and isn't as sporty as past 3ers, things that aren't hyperbole, having driven more than a few of every generation of 3er and tried to like and convince my wife she wanted an F30.

I do agree that folks should buy whatever they like though, which is why I initially posted that it's pretentious to claim that just because something is a Cadillac, no BMW buyer would cross shop it, or just because BMW builds something, it must be great.

I'm sort of the caught in my own catch though, my wife had a 135i, was convinced she wanted a new BMW and we really thought the F30 would be great, but after driving it we just didn't enjoy it, specifically the large size, lack of steering feel and non linear feel of the steering, plus just a general since of luxury over sportiness that past 3ers got right. So we bought a goofy, tall E91, aka an E84.

I know I'm in the F30 forum, talking poorly of what is for many buyers, the ideal car. I also realize that in terms of currently available sedans, there isn't a clear cut superior product. I'm simply lamenting that in the past, BMW came closer to providing what Cadillac is now offering, a sporty, relatively minimalist sporty sedan. With time, BMW has crept the 3er into what used to be 5er territory and they're being extremely slow to fill the gap of what the E30 and E46 sedans used to fill.

But who really cares, they're just cars.
I can understand your perspective. Never good to be disappointed with a new product.

I'm not on board with the "just cars" sentiment in this thread. Some people spend a lot of time in their cars so it's easy to get invested emotionally. Makes a huge difference to me when I'm in my car a long time and I'm happy and comfortable and can have a little fun. I was stuck in a dodge calibre and kia rio (wasn't impresses with either) when I was waiting on my insurance settlement, so I really appreciate being able to enjoy my car.
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      10-16-2012, 03:58 PM   #18
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I love the CTS-V but i never even considered cross shopping this to the 3 series.. and i still wont. The styling has something about it i don't get..

Being an American car the resale has to be much worse.. i almost leased a CTS-V but the residual was so bad on them it just wasn't possible..
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      10-16-2012, 07:13 PM   #19
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So Cadillac and GM made a great car that gives shoppers another option, and creates better competition. HMMM.
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      10-16-2012, 10:30 PM   #20
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      10-16-2012, 11:49 PM   #21
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There is literally NOTHING about a Cadillac that appeals to me in the least. As a competitor to the 3 series BMW, I just don't see it personally.

The engines are great in the Cadillac but I can't get past the body style which doesn't appeal to me in the least.

On another front, I have zero interest in having one penny of my money going to the UAW. A group that I will NEVER support.
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      10-17-2012, 06:11 AM   #22
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i was at long beach BMW a few weeks back.

checked out an estoril blue f30 328i in their showroom to see the color up close (i ordered one today from another BMW dealer).

that said, my friend and i walked next door to cadillac. sat in a 3.6 V6 luxury line ATS. had a cadilac sales person treat us like complete garbage and to the point where he actaully stormed off after we refused to give him our phone numbers for him to harass us when all i said was i was checking out new cars to buy and currently drove an A4 with 45k miles on it. my friend has a C300 with about the same milage, so we were both at least thinking about a new car soon.

anyhow, guy storms off after trying to pressure sale us into buying a loaded ATS for $52k when i said i'd probably spend up to $50k on a car tops.

So my friend and I are both 31. we look extremely young in general, people ask me if i just got out of college, but that said we expected to be treated at least semi decently.

BMW and i'd say honestly mercedes have treated me by far the best (never bought a mercedes, but my friend did). that said i own a current gen A4 and my friend owns a current gen c300. so i'm familiar with the cars in this class (other friends have infiniti Gs and lexus ISes as well so i have driven / sat in all the cars).

horrible dealer service not withstanding (i think GM dealers given they are all combo dealers, they have idiot sales people who think they can sell a luxury car the same way they dupe a moron into buying an impala... so thats strike 1) this car is not that great.


first off the ATS looks small for some reason up close. its not nearly as distinctive as the CTS up close and seems to lack i suppose prescense (maybe its just small) compared to my A4 or a new 3 series. now i've never actaully driven it (since the asshole caddy dealers would barely even let us sit in their precious entry level sport sedan let alone drive it) and i'm assuming its pretty decent based on reviews. but SIT in the car and you know its cheap. things like the door panel inside plastic cubby feel chevy cruze cheap. the center stack reeks of cheesy cheap glossy plastic and looks like they pulled it right out of the volt. the center interior light button switches felt cheap. the chrome plastic el cheapo trim looks super tacky and is everywhere. and the capacitive buttons for EVERYTHING is plain horrible and they dont feel good at all. and obviously no tactile feedback. on the non cue models the touch screen you have to control everything also feels sluggish. it is basically the opposite of refinment


i have to say , nice try cadilac but you still lose. the ATS is not inexpensive either, so its basically a few grand less than a bmw, and probably more than an audi to have to deal with horrible dealer service etc on a car with a crap interior. why would you do that? i'd buy a 3 series, A4 , C class in that order and even a G37 before buying an ATS based on cars i've driven just from interior feel alone (i'm huge on interiors, i didn't buy a C class the minute i felt the hvac knobs and steering wheel on the pre refresh W204 and got the audi. new F30 thumbs up bmw compared to the e90 btw).

anyway thats my 2 cents. the reviews will say it drives great... but it just doesnt feel premium enough. its like the first gen G35 , great driver, unrefinied and not luxury but for most people they will think its great since they dont know better (i know, i bought a first gen G35 when i was 23 and didnt know any better.... my tastes are more refined now)

Last edited by hans007; 10-17-2012 at 06:17 AM.
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