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      09-10-2013, 11:53 PM   #1
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Eventually Someone Had to Do It

So, I got my current issue of R&T and much to my surprise I find this: http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-revi...n-65-3-roa1013

R&T say, "for the first time in memory, the top-of-the-line 3 Series leaves us wanting...The chassis still makes you look like a genius, and in normal driving, the BMW exudes a rare sense of effortlessness. The ZF-sourced gearbox is so quick-witted and smooth that you almost don't miss a clutch pedal. But the new-to-this-car electric power steering is heartbreakingly bland and distant. As with past 3 Series, the brakes are strong and communicative, but the world has caught up, and they're no longer special."

Do I rue having bought an F30 for my kid? No. I am interested in buying one to replace my E92? No, but then I wasn't wanting one even before the R&T article. Would I consider a IS for my last kid's car? Probably, but it's unlikely to be what I'll buy him as the other two have BMW 3ers and I'm not going to buy him a 335i in any case.

In the end, I guess it's nice that the 328i tops its category. It's nice that the bang for the buck winner is the 328i (or the 320i). Considering it's for all intents and purposes as fast as the IS350F, being less costly makes it the clear way to go. I think that's a good thing. It makes it all the more true that if one is going to get an F30 335i, one just does so because one wants that car, and not because there are no other compelling alternatives.
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      09-11-2013, 12:07 AM   #2
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Impressed that the Infiniti is a whole 1.3 seconds quicker from 60-130 MPH. That makes for a hair over 10 car-lengths in a roll race. Damn.
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      09-11-2013, 12:25 AM   #3
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I still think the tuning options are better with the BMW, leaving enough room to out perform with equal tuning on other platforms.
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      09-11-2013, 01:18 AM   #4
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I test drove the Lexus and found the v6o be flat off the line and the transmission slower when shifting.
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      09-11-2013, 01:21 AM   #5
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The aesthetics of the Lexus are far from my liking. The Infiniti is sexy, but I wouldn't buy one.
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      09-11-2013, 01:45 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
The aesthetics of the Lexus are far from my liking. The Infiniti is sexy, but I wouldn't buy one.
+1.

I don't know if looks alone would stop me from choosing one were I buying for myself, particularly if the price were compelling enough. I mean, I'm not keen on the IS' rear end design, but I don't think it's so butt ugly that I couldn't live with it.

At the end of the day, I don't choose DD cars based on looks. Of course, as I said above, raw speed/power isn't much of a priority in a DD either, thus why I'd likely pick a 328 or 320 anyway.

Is it just me or does the Infiniti look a lot like blend of a Maxima and Altima with a little Sonata thrown in for good measure?
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      09-11-2013, 03:09 AM   #7
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Quote:
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Impressed that the Infiniti is a whole 1.3 seconds quicker from 60-130 MPH. That makes for a hair over 10 car-lengths in a roll race. Damn.
I think the difference you are seeing is specifically from 120-130 so if you were rolling with an Infiniti at 120 and decide to start racing him, yes, you would lose. Otherwise,I think your math is a bit off.
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      09-11-2013, 05:07 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F32
Impressed that the Infiniti is a whole 1.3 seconds quicker from 60-130 MPH. That makes for a hair over 10 car-lengths in a roll race. Damn.
I'm not sure you could do the math this way. If you were talking 1.6 seconds faster to a specific distance than you could calculate it that way but not when comparing 60-130 mph. You can exaggerate an example where both cars are even all the way up to 129 and then the BMW stays there for the next 1.6 seconds while the Infiniti continues on to 130. The gain is only 1 mph over the course of 1.6 seconds. That would be a 1.5 foot lead at 130. Of course that case is exaggerated but the point is the same.
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      09-11-2013, 08:28 AM   #9
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Does any of this really matter? Who cares what the magazine tests say? If you're happy with your car, there are always going to be those who favor something else. I personally don't let magazine testers determine what I buy - I evaluate the choices myself.
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      09-11-2013, 08:28 AM   #10
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From Motortend

"In the admittedly go-hard-or-go-home crucible that is our figure-eight test -- in other words, nothing but limit, 10/10ths handling -- the Infiniti was at twice as much fun to toss around as the comparably buttoned-down Lexus. The IS350 felt sluggish, as if it hadn't had its coffee yet. The Q50S, on the other hand, seemed like it had just paid a visit and some cheddar to Walter White and Jesse Pinkman."

Read more: http://<a href="http://<a href="http...fw</a></a></a>

Also when you look at the IS350 vs Q50 video MT mentioned the stability control induced understeer on the 350

A kind soul posted the article with the scoring, the Lexus won because of exterior, interior, brake feel and driver comfort points not handling were both were tied.

On the topic of brake feel, the 335i has zero brake fade and stops better than the IS350 but lost one point on brake feel
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      09-11-2013, 09:40 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roundel335
Does any of this really matter? Who cares what the magazine tests say? If you're happy with your car, there are always going to be those who favor something else. I personally don't let magazine testers determine what I buy - I evaluate the choices myself.
+1

Yelp also told me that Mama D's in Newport Beach is 4.5 stars with almost 1,000 reviews. My wife and I test drove it and it was horrible. However; Yelp said it's great so we are going back!
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      09-11-2013, 10:05 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony20009 View Post
So, I got my current issue of R&T and much to my surprise I find this: http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-revi...n-65-3-roa1013

R&T say, "for the first time in memory, the top-of-the-line 3 Series leaves us wanting...The chassis still makes you look like a genius, and in normal driving, the BMW exudes a rare sense of effortlessness. The ZF-sourced gearbox is so quick-witted and smooth that you almost don't miss a clutch pedal. But the new-to-this-car electric power steering is heartbreakingly bland and distant. As with past 3 Series, the brakes are strong and communicative, but the world has caught up, and they're no longer special."

Do I rue having bought an F30 for my kid? No. I am interested in buying one to replace my E92? No, but then I wasn't wanting one even before the R&T article. Would I consider a IS for my last kid's car? Probably, but it's unlikely to be what I'll buy him as the other two have BMW 3ers and I'm not going to buy him a 335i in any case.

In the end, I guess it's nice that the 328i tops its category. It's nice that the bang for the buck winner is the 328i (or the 320i). Considering it's for all intents and purposes as fast as the IS350F, being less costly makes it the clear way to go. I think that's a good thing. It makes it all the more true that if one is going to get an F30 335i, one just does so because one wants that car, and not because there are no other compelling alternatives.
I chose the 335 over the 328 for 2 reasons - the sound, and the straight six. I just love the natural harmonic balance and the smoothness it brings. I would have got a 328 if it was a 6 (like my last 328) but it wasn't. Some decisions are more than pure numbers and logic.
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      09-11-2013, 10:06 AM   #13
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These comparo tests are definitely wonky... the Lexus has the lowest g-rating on the skid pad, the worst stopping distance, the slowest 0-60/5-60 times, the second slowest 1/4 mi time, the second worst gas mileage, and it's the heaviest of the bunch. And it's weird looking. Lexus... FOR THE WIN!
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      09-11-2013, 10:12 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roundel335 View Post
Does any of this really matter? Who cares what the magazine tests say? If you're happy with your car, there are always going to be those who favor something else. I personally don't let magazine testers determine what I buy - I evaluate the choices myself.
I agree completely, I think the point is more about BMW and the F30 not living up to expectation. We can argue about why BMW can't come out on top of the competition with the F30 and previous BMW models seem to have done better. Is the competition tougher or are the cost cutting at BMW catching up? There is also Regulatory BS that is forcing car manufacturers to make design choices that are tough to work around.

I think that is where I am with the reviews, they wont make me change my car choice and I hope it's a wake up call for BMW to really improve the F30 for the LCI.
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      09-11-2013, 10:26 AM   #15
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I agree completely, I think the point is more about BMW and the F30 not living up to expectation. We can argue about why BMW can't come out on top of the competition with the F30 and previous BMW models seem to have done better. Is the competition tougher or are the cost cutting at BMW catching up? There is also Regulatory BS that is forcing car manufacturers to make design choices that are tough to work around.

I think that is where I am with the reviews, they wont make me change my car choice and I hope it's a wake up call for BMW to really improve the F30 for the LCI.
I doubt BMW is getting any wake up call. They are selling a lot of 3 series cars, most of them no line base models which says something in and itself, and their sales numbers are quite impressive. They're going to put EPS in the M3/4 as Porsche has done in their cars though apparently Porsche has done a better job with it. Years ago the mags said the Infiniti G was better than the E90 and then they said the G's engine was harsh above 4000 rpm which it is IMO. If the 3 series has moved on to be the new 5 as some have said then I'm glad for it. They're living up to my expectations.
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      09-11-2013, 11:13 AM   #16
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on a side note, i have very little complaints about the EPS in my 2014.... very accurate, great weight and I am getting feedback (but i haven't pushed it hard on a corner yet, so we'll see...) I'm not sure if they're using a different rack or a different program. I also have DHP.
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      09-11-2013, 11:18 AM   #17
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on a side note, i have very little complaints about the EPS in my 2014.... very accurate, great weight and I am getting feedback (but i haven't pushed it hard on a corner yet, so we'll see...) I'm not sure if they're using a different rack or a different program. I also have DHP.
You also have an E70. I have been waiting for a while to hear your feedback on this since like me you drive both back to back.

I have very similar observations to yours, F30 with PPK and DHP have a different steering set up to those with neither and I have no complaints driving the E70 and F30 back to back.

Comfort mode seems to be the most natural steering set up and sport+ stiffens things up but I am still torn on which I prefer, comfort or sport+, only time will tell
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      09-11-2013, 11:23 AM   #18
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You also have an E70. I have been waiting for a while to hear your feedback on this since like me you drive both back to back.

I have very similar observations to yours, F30 with PPK and DHP have a different steering set up to those with neither and I have no complaints driving the E70 and F30 back to back.

Comfort mode seems to be the most natural steering set up and sport+ stiffens things up but I am still torn on which I prefer, comfort or sport+, only time will tell
I actually can't stand driving the E70 anymore (it feels like i'm trying to turn a 50 pound lead weight when i steer and it's not adding anything dynamically).... maybe i'm just getting old

I still need to get my tire situation straight on the new f30, the dealer overinflated to 46 psi all around so i want to drop that to about 3-5 psi over sidewall rec's. it is fairly bouncy right now. i am also eventually going to swap out to michelin PSS, non-RFT and I really am curious about the whole steering, handling, responsiveness (heck even braking) experience at that point.
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      09-11-2013, 11:33 AM   #19
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 300hp View Post
You also have an E70. I have been waiting for a while to hear your feedback on this since like me you drive both back to back.

I have very similar observations to yours, F30 with PPK and DHP have a different steering set up to those with neither and I have no complaints driving the E70 and F30 back to back.

Comfort mode seems to be the most natural steering set up and sport+ stiffens things up but I am still torn on which I prefer, comfort or sport+, only time will tell
I actually can't stand driving the E70 anymore (it feels like i'm trying to turn a 50 pound lead weight when i steer and it's not adding anything dynamically).... maybe i'm just getting old

I still need to get my tire situation straight on the new f30, the dealer overinflated to 46 psi all around so i want to drop that to about 3-5 psi over sidewall rec's. it is fairly bouncy right now. i am also eventually going to swap out to michelin PSS, non-RFT and I really am curious about the whole steering, handling, responsiveness (heck even braking) experience at that point.
Ok I guess you will have more input once you sort out your tires and you are out of wimp mode

I am surprised you don't enjoy the E70 anymore, it brings smiles to my face especially in the curves. The E70 is what convinced me to go BMW all the way when I had a G37.
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      09-11-2013, 03:50 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by 300hp View Post
I have very similar observations to yours, F30 with PPK and DHP have a different steering set up to those with neither and I have no complaints...
Definitely encouraging... as I have a 2014 with DHP and PPK that just arrived at the port.

Quote:
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I am surprised you don't enjoy the E70 anymore, it brings smiles to my face especially in the curves. The E70 is what convinced me to go BMW all the way when I had a G37.
I've driven an e70, and it was really impressive. Felt similar to my e53 - which is equipped with Dinan camber plates and a strut brace. It's really amazing how great these big vehicles handle... so much for the old adage, "it's not how well the bear dances, but that the bear dances at all."
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      09-11-2013, 03:59 PM   #21
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My reply to this on the other forum:

Again,I don't care for the F30 to not finish first. I don't need the validation.

But when you score the LOOKS of the IS as 4.5 and the LOOKS of the F30 at 3.0, I am sorry, your scoring system is done for. And I am sorry, but the 3.5L IS, the engine is two steps behind and hurts the car as an overall package.

Driving cars and writing is one thing. But people who pay $50-60k for a car are not going to buy one that looks that stupid when the BMW is so well rounded. Best MPG, best straight line, best all around car to live with-it's the F30. BMW sends over test cars that are HEAVILY optioned in ways that don't make the cars BETTER and then have much higher MSRPs than the competition. They could get away with it before, now-not so much.

Lastly, the 335i is the only car there offered in a 3 pedal manual-some of you are like me and that makes any of the other cars a DOA scenario.
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      09-11-2013, 03:59 PM   #22
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 300hp View Post
I have very similar observations to yours, F30 with PPK and DHP have a different steering set up to those with neither and I have no complaints...
Definitely encouraging... as I have a 2014 with DHP and PPK that just arrived at the port.

Quote:
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I am surprised you don't enjoy the E70 anymore, it brings smiles to my face especially in the curves. The E70 is what convinced me to go BMW all the way when I had a G37.
I've driven an e70, and it was really impressive. Felt similar to my e53 - which is equipped with Dinan camber plates and a strut brace. It's really amazing how great these big vehicles handle... so much for the old adage, "it's not how well the bear dances, but that the bear dances at all."
Exactly. With the E70 I promise you I am always amazed at how that big bear dances. On the curves it literally feels like the tires are urging you to go harder as they push you in and out of curves. You feel the weight as you approach the curve but once those tires are hooked up she dances right out of there. My E70 doesn't even have the active dampers.

It would be I interesting to hear your thoughts once your car arrives and you are out of the wimp mode affecting many 2014 owners these days.
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