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      11-30-2012, 10:10 AM   #45
lesha
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is this coming to US? and isn't this direct competition to bmw's own 3 series, or will be price difference set them apart?
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      11-30-2012, 10:13 AM   #46
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I'm expecting the 4GC to cost something like US$59,070 starting msrp
doubt it will sell for that much.

baby 3er coupe is now 37K, so the F32 should be at about 38.5K and the GC perhaps would start at 40K
A baby 5er (528i) costs US$47,000 and a 6GC starts at US$76,000. Thats a 62% increase.

Since the 3/4 series are supposed to match with the 5/6 series, at 62% a 4GC will be something like US$62,600 but i doubt BMW will charge that amount for a 4.

Thats why i guessed around US$59,070.

Keep in mind that "Grand coupe" isnt meant to be driven by anyone, its supposed to be expensive. I think BMW is overpricing the GC. I can get a well equipped CLS for less than US$85,000 but a decent equipped 640GC is over US$90,000
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      11-30-2012, 10:14 AM   #47
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is this coming to US? and isn't this direct competition to bmw's own 3 series, or will be price difference set them apart?
Sure, it should come to the US. It's no more a competitor to the 3er sedan, than the 6 Gran Coupe is a competitor to the 5 series sedan. Most 5ers are "volume" modules, whereas the 6 Gran Coupe gives much more style and features. I'm sure the 4 GC will be positioned the same way.
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      11-30-2012, 10:21 AM   #48
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      11-30-2012, 10:27 AM   #49
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is this coming to US? and isn't this direct competition to bmw's own 3 series, or will be price difference set them apart?
Sure, it should come to the US. It's no more a competitor to the 3er sedan, than the 6 Gran Coupe is a competitor to the 5 series sedan. Most 5ers are "volume" modules, whereas the 6 Gran Coupe gives much more style and features. I'm sure the 4 GC will be positioned the same way.
Yes You're correct! The 3 and the 5 are for volume sales, whereas the 4 and the 6 are for style points and more $$$
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      11-30-2012, 11:11 AM   #50
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Yes You're correct! The 3 and the 5 are for volume sales, whereas the 4 and the 6 are for style points and more $$$
Thank you! Please copy and paste this post for every person that asks why these variants are necessary.
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      11-30-2012, 11:13 AM   #51
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Sure, it should come to the US. It's no more a competitor to the 3er sedan, than the 6 Gran Coupe is a competitor to the 5 series sedan. Most 5ers are "volume" modules, whereas the 6 Gran Coupe gives much more style and features. I'm sure the 4 GC will be positioned the same way.
i see what you are saying but currently, 6 coupe is priced like 20K+ more than 5 series, where 3 coupe is priced few K more than 3 sedan, so the only way not to make it a competition is to price 4 GC much higher than 3 sedan
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      11-30-2012, 11:28 AM   #52
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Thank you! Please copy and paste this post for every person that asks why these variants are necessary.
BMW has been aggressive with raising their prices. At the same time their designs become more and more average. I don't get it. What happened to the bad ass cars they were making until recently?
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      11-30-2012, 11:39 AM   #53
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i see what you are saying but currently, 6 coupe is priced like 20K+ more than 5 series, where 3 coupe is priced few K more than 3 sedan, so the only way not to make it a competition is to price 4 GC much higher than 3 sedan
A 640i GC is $17K more base price than the equivalent 535i base. I think it would be reasonable to expect a 4er GC to have a base price $10K higher than a base 335i. That would get it up to $70K with options. Certainly much less than the 6 GC, which can typically flirt with $100K.

A 4 GC coupe might indeed compete in price with a loaded 535i. But so does a 6GC compete with a loaded 740i. The design is what will set each respective series apart.
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      11-30-2012, 11:42 AM   #54
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No doubt that the F30 and F20 are much more similar this generation but no one is fooled thinking that the E90 was very different from the E82. The point is, there was never a drastic change between the 1-Series and 3-Series. Sure the panels might be arranged differently but you can tell that it's it's was designed in a similar way to reflect the character of both car which is supposed to be more sporty than luxury.
The problem with your argument is that once you cross a certain price bracket the expectations of what you are getting for that price must match that price.

That's the reason that a 528i interior is much nicer than the $5000-less 335i. The same 528i interior must be as nice at $50000 as at $100000 (M5).

The F30 interior is not a $70,000 interior. It is not even a $50,000 interior. That's the problem.
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      11-30-2012, 11:47 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by Technic View Post
The problem with your argument is that once you cross a certain price bracket the expectations of what you are getting for that price must match that price.

That's the reason that a 528i interior is much nicer than the $5000-less 335i. The same 528i interior must be as nice at $50000 as at $100000 (M5).

The F30 interior is not a $70,000 interior. It is not even a $50,000 interior. That's the problem.
I dont even think it's a $40,000, these cars are really overpiced, i think fair price for fully loaded 335i should be $45,000 max, but that will never happen, since there are fully loaded accords that are over $40,000
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      11-30-2012, 11:55 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by Technic View Post
The problem with your argument is that once you cross a certain price bracket the expectations of what you are getting for that price must match that price.

That's the reason that a 528i interior is much nicer than the $5000-less 335i. The same 528i interior must be as nice at $50000 as at $100000 (M5).

The F30 interior is not a $70,000 interior. It is not even a $50,000 interior. That's the problem.
I agree...I think the Sport Line with that stupid red theme is just a little too hip for a $50,000 car. I think it works really well in the 1 series but not the 3 series. I was really hoping the 4 series would be a step up as far as quality goes compared to the 3 series as the F30 doesn't do it for me. It doesn't drive better than an E90, the quality isn't better than an E90 so I feel like it's pointless for me to consider buying one. The 4 series is my only hope for continuing being loyal to BMW as a customer. So far, I'm really not impressed with that F30 based interior. Esp since we all know a nicely equipped M440i will probably be about $65-70k. That interior does not belong in that price bracket.

Also to all those who are not liking BMWs niche models, it makes economical sense. It's call economies of scale. Build a bunch of cars of one platform and your profit grows as development costs would cover multiple different models. That's a smart way for BMW to stay independent. BMW is the only luxury car market in the world without a parent company to back them. Audi and Porsche have VW, Lexus has Toyota, MB has Daimler, Jaguar/Land Rover has Tata, etc.

It's call doing what you have to do to say ahead of the game.
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      11-30-2012, 11:58 AM   #57
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I agree...I think the Sport Line with that stupid red theme is just a little too hip for a $50,000 car.
There have been a few unscientific polls done on this board and others, and the Sport line seems to be the most popular. Granted this is an enthusiast board, but BMW appears to have found success with the design and marketing of the Sport line. Plus, there's always the Luxury line if you're in the balding-professor-crowd

And all we see here is a 4 GC prototype. The real interior could have better appointments.
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      11-30-2012, 12:09 PM   #58
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That interior does not belong in that price bracket.
+1
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      11-30-2012, 12:09 PM   #59
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There have been a few unscientific polls done on this board and others, and the Sport line seems to be the most popular. Granted this is an enthusiast board, but BMW appears to have found success with the design and marketing of the Sport line. Plus, there's always the Luxury line if you're in the balding-professor-crowd

And all we see here is a 4 GC prototype. The real interior could have better appointments.
I never said that the Sport Line is unpopular, I just think that it's dumb that I'm an enthusiast who likes a sporty interior but I don't like to be forced with the red theme if I wanted a sport package car. You finally can get the M adaptive suspension in the luxury line, but you're still stuck with the non sport seats, etc.

I hope you're right about the interior. My point is that if BMW is going through the trouble of renaming the car 4 series to charge more and move it up market then I expect a better interior.
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      11-30-2012, 12:12 PM   #60
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I never said that the Sport Line is unpopular, I just think that it's dumb that I'm an enthusiast who likes a sporty interior but I don't like to be forced with the red theme if I wanted a sport package car. You finally can get the M adaptive suspension in the luxury line, but you're still stuck with the non sport seats, etc.
Get the M-sport??
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      11-30-2012, 12:26 PM   #61
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The problem with your argument is that once you cross a certain price bracket the expectations of what you are getting for that price must match that price.

That's the reason that a 528i interior is much nicer than the $5000-less 335i. The same 528i interior must be as nice at $50000 as at $100000 (M5).

The F30 interior is not a $70,000 interior. It is not even a $50,000 interior. That's the problem.
Oh I agree with you that given the F30's price, it should reflect that but all I was saying that it isn't/shouldn't be too much of a surprise that the 1, 3 and 4-Series all had similar aspects of the interior given the E82 and E9X similarities. In fact, in one of my earlier posts, I was down on the 4-Series interior because it's not really differentiating itself from 3 if we want to use the argument that the 4-Series should be something like the 6-Series is to the 5-Series. But as of right now, it's not direction BMW is heading, the 4-Series is simply just a 3-Series, renamed and with a higher price.
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      11-30-2012, 12:28 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by georgere
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Originally Posted by John Tanglewood View Post
Thank you! Please copy and paste this post for every person that asks why these variants are necessary.
BMW has been aggressive with raising their prices. At the same time their designs become more and more average. I don't get it. What happened to the bad ass cars they were making until recently?
Sadly, I have to agree. The price increase of the new 3 is huge once you option it up as most people do. I may just keep my e92 for awhile. Not likening the look of the new 3 and it's not grown on me like I hoped it would.
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      11-30-2012, 12:34 PM   #63
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I think you may be surprised... and soon.
Hey Jason,

Do you have a timeline for when the M3 will be announced, and when the M4/M4 GC will be announced?
Instead of me checking this site every day lol.

Chris
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      11-30-2012, 12:41 PM   #64
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And all we see here is a 4 GC prototype. The real interior could have better appointments.
Thats the point everyone seems to be missing. The finished product is about 2 years from production. You cant be making sweeping pronouncements on the interior based on a prototype. Of course it would have a F30 interior for the prototype since thats the model its closest to.

The current 6GC has about the nicest interior in any mainstream BMW (not including the 100k 7's) especially when you option the contrasting leather. I would assume the 4GC would similarly include very upscale interior appointments and probably a lot of BMW Individual options as well. If the 4GC was a scaled down version of the 6GC, I personally would pay 60k for that over a nice 535i, an A6, or an E350.
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      11-30-2012, 12:43 PM   #65
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BMW used to create quality interiors, this looks to be full of ill-fitting and cheap plastic. The way the centre console meets the dashboard looks like a 1980's Nissan. And yes I know its a prototype, but I just hope they can create something decent. The interior of the 5 series GT is what they should be aiming for in terms of quality.

Fingers crossed!
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      11-30-2012, 12:48 PM   #66
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It's the same relation and business plan as the 6 Series Gran Coupe to the 5 series sedan. So if the 6GC and the 5 series sedan both sell well, then the 4GC and 3 series sedan should do the same.
Base price on a 535 is $53,100. It's $76,000 for a 640GC - That $23,000 spread means that there is a whole different target market for each car.

Base price on a 335 is $42,800, $36,500 on a 328. I just don't think BMW can get away charging $60,000 base for a 4 series GC. I'd guess more like a $5000 to $7500 premium over the F30. Which means the spread will be smaller and the chance to cannibalize F30 sales will be more real.

No question that this is an obvious risk for BMW; I have no doubt they have considered it carefully. I just have no idea what their conclusions might have been.
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