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      12-03-2012, 09:41 PM   #309
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Well, this is quite ugly. I think the ugliest part on this car is that side grill/gill :S whatever it is.
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      12-03-2012, 09:48 PM   #310
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I can't get over that side vent thing. Hopefully they offer a side vent thing delete.
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      12-03-2012, 10:05 PM   #311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matski View Post
So, these are the numbers for 5GT globally.

The data is sorted by 2012 YTD, and the 2012 est figure is based on monthly averages by Q1, Q2 and Q3... not that scientific but won't be too far off.



Make of it what you will, but it shows that to say the 5GT shouldn't exist because it's a poor seller would imply that BMW needs to drop 6 or 7 other models too.
Interesting chart.

BMW should ask themselves why they lost sales on the popular cars from 07 and 08 numbers.
Seems when they 'added' new models some people who may have bought the other cars bought the new models instead.

If a broader global strategy is better, then one would expect to see continuing growth ON TOP of the sales numbers, and not nearly the same total number after adding models.
It looks like BMW's new models may be cannibalizing sales within their own line.

That's just an initial impression I gleamed from the charts, more analysis is worthy, and I expect BMW has done it.
But, it still begs the question as to why some of their past very popular cars have dropped in sales. Looks like the new models may have simply helped prop up sales and not really increased them as dramatically as the number of new models introduced would expect.

Look at how well BMW did with 5 series sales once they spent more time fixing the 5 series.
The 6 is also doing much better with the redesign.

Why no Z4 after 08? I wonder how well, or not, the new model is doing.

The X5 may have suffered sales after the intro of the X6.
Total combined X5 and X6 sales for 2011 show an increase of a bit over 25K cars sold, compared to the 07 X5 all on it's own.
Yet investing a lot of money into R&D and construction of the X6 has resulted in only a 25K cars sold increase.
Is/was that investment worth it, along with now having to continue future development and build lines for 2 different models?

The 1 series has done really well for BMW, yet, they have taken way too long to bring the new replacement. And now that they have sale have increased again. The 1 series coupe is holding it's own even though it's way old now. The vert is doing well as it needs a replacement badly, and yet where is it? The 1 coupe and vert have done very well in the US/NA market.
Where is the new 1 series for the NA market? Where is the 1/2 series sedan that so many would love to have?

Total BMW sales from 07 compared to whole year totals in 2011, shows an increase of 103,561 sales in 5 years from 07 to 2011. And within those 5 years, 4 NEW models were brought in. That's a lot of research, design, and construction investment for only a 103.5K increase in total sales between 5 years. Doesn't seem as big of an increase considering the investment to get those 4 new models to market.

I'm wondering, instead of using investment to improve and build on already successful models, it seems a lot of time, money and effort has been spent on creating new niche models that may end up simply competing within the brand instead of actually creating NEW customers.
I'm sure the Chinese market will be the bigger payoff once it really starts rolling.

The Chinese market has huge potential for all manufactures, and I can see BMW wants as much market share as they can get, and of course they should.
I just don't want to see a neglect for the base/core of BMW's existing customers, with the core models that do and have done very well for them.
Personally, I REALLY wanted a new replacement for my 135i, either a new coupe or a sedan, but it didn't happen, and it's long overdue.

I'm no expert clearly, but to me I would want a new and/or niche model to create NEW sales, bring in new customers, and build sales numbers, rather than cannibalize one models sales for a new model.
"On top of" sales shows the benefit of a new model rather than "instead of" sales.
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      12-03-2012, 10:07 PM   #312
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Originally Posted by S-Dot View Post
That's a fantastic chart!

I can't believe the 5GT is selling almost as well as the 3 series coupe! I wouldn't have guessed that they were even in the same ballpark.

I also can't believe the explosion in 5-series sales overall - phenomenal!
Well, that's quite bad cos the E92 is already up for replacement soon (plus the 2dr coupe market is much smaller than the family car market). To put things into perspective, the F07's production figures only beat those of really niche products.
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      12-03-2012, 10:18 PM   #313
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Originally Posted by 宝马.e90 View Post
That's global sales. No one is disputing it's impact in the Europe and Asia markets, it has already been said that it's been very successful there, it's the NA market where the F07 has disappointed.
No, it's not successful in Europe, esp cf F11 cos nearly all F11 sales are in Europe (vs global sales of F07). Don't forget BMW AG had to massively subsidise EU sales by including expensive extras foc.
In Asia (only for PRC & HK) it's relatively successful again due to factory incentives.
The F07 in those markets not only cannibilised sales but also decreased profitability.
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      12-03-2012, 10:33 PM   #314
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      12-03-2012, 10:37 PM   #315
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Originally Posted by RPM90 View Post
The Chinese market has huge potential for all manufactures, and I can see BMW wants as much market share as they can get, and of course they should.
I just don't want to see a neglect for the base/core of BMW's existing customers, with the core models that do and have done very well for them.
Personally, I REALLY wanted a new replacement for my 135i, either a new coupe or a sedan, but it didn't happen, and it's long overdue.

I'm no expert clearly, but to me I would want a new and/or niche model to create NEW sales, bring in new customers, and build sales numbers, rather than cannibalize one models sales for a new model.
"On top of" sales shows the benefit of a new model rather than "instead of" sales.
Unfortunately the market taste in China is very conservative. BMW's strategy there is local manufacturing for it's core models, with heavy design localisation. Audi is the current market leader there as it was the 1st to do that, & they managed to get into the government vehicle procurement list, meaning officials spending government money can only buy PRC-made Audis if they want sth premium. BMW tried & failed to get into that list earlier in the year.
Wht u said abt cannibilisation is entirely true. It hurts profitability as well as brand image.
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      12-03-2012, 10:38 PM   #316
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hmmm, they lost it again .
Now, I m waiting for the 4 series, and if the 4er doesn't look good or is overpriced, I m jumping to MB or Audi (Cadi might be considered as well since it's been getting good reviews lately)
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      12-03-2012, 10:45 PM   #317
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This is horrible. A terrible thing to do to the 3er. Please don't bring this to the USA. And please remember what makes a BMW a BMW and not just a sales chaser. I get survival and diversification but not if it produces this terribly proportioned car.

And return steering feel to the 3er.
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      12-03-2012, 11:28 PM   #318
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Trash, I think the only reason BMW did this because the 3 series is the best seller. So y not make a GT version? That's a big fail, nobody likes these at least in The United States of America. I've seen only 1 5series GT I repeat 1 in my life living here, not even in the dealership.
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      12-03-2012, 11:36 PM   #319
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      12-03-2012, 11:57 PM   #320
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      12-04-2012, 12:34 AM   #321
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      12-04-2012, 12:47 AM   #322
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business on the front, party in the back
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      12-04-2012, 12:54 AM   #323
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# of 5GT globally "sold" that are actually BMW Service and Dealer Courtesy Cars: 21,279

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matski View Post
So, these are the numbers for 5GT globally.

The data is sorted by 2012 YTD, and the 2012 est figure is based on monthly averages by Q1, Q2 and Q3... not that scientific but won't be too far off.



Make of it what you will, but it shows that to say the 5GT shouldn't exist because it's a poor seller would imply that BMW needs to drop 6 or 7 other models too.
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      12-04-2012, 12:59 AM   #324
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IMO just drop those GT and stick with the Tourer-wagon-SUV look how poorly the 5er GT does compared to the Wagon
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Its because a lot of BMW owners are housewives or business professionals and know little about cars other than BMW's are a status symbol in their own circles so that have to have one. But exotic car owners know cars, that's why they are willing to spend for a killer car and they know something different when they see one.
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      12-04-2012, 01:18 AM   #325
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26
Quote:
On the contrary, I think the one that is not listening is BMW. But as you said it yourself: "this is no longer about you".

BMW is not a one market company , so many media and traditionalists believe that BMW should only build and develop cars for one market. This is the problem with the entire industry but you cannot rely on one market any more.

By "us" I guess you mean the customers that were loyal for years to a brand that used to mean something special, right?

I have been with BMW for over twenty years and have seen the exact reaction people have to a new model over and over. New ideas and cultures are generating huge sales , segmentation is rapid in the auto industry and you have to open your mind to new opportunities. This can still be achieved by combining a niche with a BMW's coherent dynamic character even if it is a 3er GT or a FWD BMW Active Tourer.

I'm not saying that BMW should only make M3's and M5's just to cater to the driving enthusiasts. That would be very stupid and very unprofitable. The problem is that BMW has betrayed their own roots just for the sake of profit and sales volume.
This is not just BMW this is the progress of the auto industry. You cannot and in BMW's case justify having the same line up pre-2000 in this era.
BMW like other manufacturers cannot afford to ignore the demands for customers and especially demand for more crossovers Which you can say the 3er GT is a crossover. SUVs and compact and downsized luxury concepts - These are demanded by our customers and these bring in growth to the business and growth is important to BMW's overall key objective and that is to remain wholly independent.


Things like putting an engine from a lower model into an M car (N54 into the fabulous 1M), changing the 3 series coupe name to 4 series just to charge more money, every model gaining size, weight and numbness compared to the previous one, building atrocities like the 3GT and 5GT, building FWD cars, etc... are things that the BMW I used to love would NEVER had done before.

No more dogmas - The markets have changed and the requirements have gotten greater it is either sink or survive and this is not just BMW.

Go ahead and fill every possible niche out there, but do it by sticking to the company's values, not by selling out.

It is not selling out it is reacting the changes of the industry it isthe effect of progress. A BMW will always be a BMW but some models must have a broader spread of ability to be able to make an impact on the market- The X5 started this.

So please let your company know that a lot of "us" will be going elsewhere when purchasing our next car. Good luck with the Chinese.
I am sure you will be happy with whatever you choose. But will you?
My work within marketing is in the cycle for a new model is to make sure all parties involved develop the model to the brief set by our board of directors and create the communication aspects such as launch materials (film and photography) Which I am currently on creating with the BMW i cars.
I have worked with many models over the years but one thing always seems to be re-occurring. And that is originality.

Manufacturers are too obsessed with BMW that their car must match a BMW that they are forgetting about originality. And I am seeing that in marketing as well. They market like a BMW but is it a BMW?
China is not the only BMW market , as I stated originally that BMW has a global customer base and that all markets are catered for.
Please stop referring the 5er GT to cars like the Porsche Panamera ,Audi A7 and Mercedes-Benz CLS. The 5er GT was never designed to be a serious competitor for these cars. I do not know why the media grouped them in evaluation , but it was never designed to be a five door coupe.

Here is a question - If the 5er GT continued on its course and remained as a typical R-Klasse competitor - would it have been more successful?
Depends. The R-Classes problem was that MB refused to consider it a minivan, so they didn't put sliding doors on it. This made the car pointless in the USA, where it could have sold well to wealthy soccer moms.

I have a question for you now.
Please explain how the increasingly numb steering is a response to market demands? Literally how many people said, "I love the car, but the steering wheel is just telling me too much about what the front wheels are doing. Please kill all feel in the new model". When I say feel I am not referring to weight, but rather how the weight changes depending on grip levels. I feel that needed clarification as BMW seems to have forgotten the difference here lately.

I look forward to your reply.
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      12-04-2012, 02:22 AM   #326
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I held off responding to this quote for a while to let the full effect sink in. I'm in the tiny minority who thinks that it looks OK, particularly in M Sport guise. That said, it would look so much better without the high roofline. Why couldn't BMW just use the same, sleek roofline of the 3 sedan and add the hatch? It would look great. The raised roof and larger greenhouse is what takes away from the overall look. I was seriously considering this version as my next car (if it would be offered in the US), but have decided against it. Looking OK isn't enough...
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      12-04-2012, 02:25 AM   #327
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Missed Opportunity

Introducing the vents on this model sends all the wrong messages re style over substance.

Plus this is just another ugly car. Why can't BMW just have a requirement that the cars look beautiful. Why is it so hit and miss???
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      12-04-2012, 02:32 AM   #328
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How I hoped BMW 3er GT would look like.

The practicality of 5 door; higher sitting position, elegant proportions; perfect car. I'm 30, and I would buy something like this at once.

BMW should hire car-magazine illustrators.
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      12-04-2012, 03:16 AM   #329
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How I hoped BMW 3er GT would look like.

The practicality of 5 door; higher sitting position, elegant proportions; perfect car. I'm 30, and I would buy something like this at once.

BMW should hire car-magazine illustrators.
I totally agree on this one. That is exactly how it should look like. They have so many specific elements that can be used and play with, and they screwed it up by trying the unknown. Instead of the hofmeister kink in the back, they choose this KIA third rear window on C pillar that is terrible. Just look at it.
Also, it is me,or this car looks disproportionate from lateral? There is no visual balance.
What are they smoking in there?

Several things must be kept in mind to make a car timeless and for some reason BMW is just experimenting on its own skin.
Other companies will love to have in their portofolio some design elements that BMW has showed in time, and look waht BMW is doing.

The car is just "acceptable" but I don't think acceptable is the right term for this company. I am dissapointed. Trully.

BMW, hire me, I will really show you how it should be done. Seriously.

Last edited by Tracus; 12-04-2012 at 03:22 AM.
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      12-04-2012, 03:17 AM   #330
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This car is not ugly...

but it just doesnt belong in a bmw lineup....


The front is grotesque, the c-pillar makes the car looks bigger than it is... (intentional design), the c-pillar throws all BMW traditional out the door, the designer didn't even bother with the c-pillar... looks like something they did 5 mins before leaving the office on a Friday evening.

The Side Vent BMW is making tons of money by going to the local auto part store...\

Someone said this is BMW's Aztek...
I would say worse... this BMW's CrossTour !! I dont know why they would imitate Honda's ugly duck !!??

Actually, BMW should sell this car to Honda... because it would make a great Honda!
BMW can't be making cars that everyone else is supposed to be doing...
BMW needs to step up or simply step down...

Put the updated N55 in the Sport Wagon, and call it a day !!
The Wagon deserve as much the N55 engine than this 3GT!

If you are going to aim at filling as much niche as possible...
make sure you dont leave the ones you already have for others to take over !

to end on a postive note:

the rims are nice
and despite all the criticisms, i somehow see a faint light of hope : under the right hands, the car has got some potentials!

Otherwise, the chinese can keep this car in their soil.


PS: thanks for all the funny comments guys !!
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