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BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum (F30 / F32) | F30POST > Technical Forums > Cosmetic Maintenance: Wash, Wax, Detailing, Repairs > What is this orange thing on the rims?
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      12-07-2012, 07:56 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntBabeee View Post
That is scary Looking!.
Not at all.

It is very typical of BMWs and many other cars. It is why it is often necessary to hit the wheel with a rubber mallet to get the wheel off after removing the lugs. Anti-seize or a little bit of good quality grease helps a good deal. No biggie.
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      12-07-2012, 09:12 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
Another picture.... from my 2006 model E91 330d. This picture was taken at about 7 months old, before the first winter. Shows how the rust starts building up, with water getting into the hub space.



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Pete you are scaring me... haha
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      12-07-2012, 10:34 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaestroAl View Post
Rust. Don't worry about it.
Rust means BMW is cheating us all and building junk with inferior materials. I think a class action suit is in order! A $50,000 car shouldn't have any rust!!!!!one!!!!!!
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      12-07-2012, 10:41 PM   #26
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Absolutely. A class action is always the path to take.
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      12-07-2012, 10:50 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by BavarianFanatic View Post
Rust means BMW is cheating us all and building junk with inferior materials. I think a class action suit is in order! A $50,000 car shouldn't have any rust!!!!!one!!!!!!
maybe if mine end up looking like the picture above.
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      12-07-2012, 11:04 PM   #28
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AntBabeee, there really is nothing wrong with the hubs in the pictures. Cars simply develop rust in all sorts of places as they are driven. This is normal, expected and harmless.

I can understand being surprised; this is obviously the first time you have seen a wheel off of a car.
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      12-07-2012, 11:31 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by AntBabeee View Post
maybe if mine end up looking like the picture above.
I was just making light of all of the other excitement on here about rust lately. Rust on the hubs is 100% normal and expected. Contrary to what some might suggest, it's truly harmless surface rust. There's no reason to do anything about it.
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      12-08-2012, 12:13 AM   #30
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i see cars like this at the dealerships all the time, brand new f10 m5's have it. my car has it, i think its normal, i hope lol
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      12-08-2012, 01:03 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elk View Post
AntBabeee, there really is nothing wrong with the hubs in the pictures. Cars simply develop rust in all sorts of places as they are driven. This is normal, expected and harmless.

I can understand being surprised; this is obviously the first time you have seen a wheel off of a car.
I seen wheels off a car before... I changed rotors and stuff before... it's just my first time seeing rotors that rusted. Never had that orange stuff on any of my previous cars, thats why i was worried.
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      12-08-2012, 06:16 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndDown
Oh s***, rust in the wheels, rust under the seats...I'm going to bash the car and spray on graffiti and leave it in front of the dealership!!!
Only if youre korean lol
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      12-08-2012, 08:15 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BavarianFanatic View Post
I was just making light of all of the other excitement on here about rust lately. Rust on the hubs is 100% normal and expected. Contrary to what some might suggest, it's truly harmless surface rust. There's no reason to do anything about it.
It is definitely normal.... you can put a bit of grease on the rust to control it a bit.

I won't add any more pictures, (yes I have worse), as we'd escalate the problem... we'd not want to do that or we won't sleep. Wheels falling off, seats collapsing and the dash in our laps, all due to the tin worm, will be too much to bear.

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      12-08-2012, 08:46 AM   #34
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Okay so let's get a bit more clear on this. The rotor is made of iron. The rotor wears slightly each time the brakes are applied. The pads wear slightly each time the brakes are applied and leave "dust" on the wheels. The brake dust has pad material and rotor material (iron dust) in it. It rains, the small particles of iron dust oxidize (rust) and leave traces of rust on the surface of the wheel. Simple, and no need to be concerned.
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      12-08-2012, 09:16 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Okay so let's get a bit more clear on this. The rotor is made of iron. The rotor wears slightly each time the brakes are applied. The pads wear slightly each time the brakes are applied and leave "dust" on the wheels. The brake dust has pad material and rotor material (iron dust) in it. It rains, the small particles of iron dust oxidize (rust) and leave traces of rust on the surface of the wheel. Simple, and no need to be concerned.
From the original picture the tainted fluid appears to be coming out from the centre cap, as it does... so not from braking, but water inside the wheel to hub space.

Definitely can sit in there, had it pour out on removing wheels.

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      12-08-2012, 10:48 AM   #36
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[quote=Cisitalia;13117563]As HighlandPete indicates this is fairly common on BMWs. I suggest you wire brush the outside of the hub. Then as Pete suggests, brush some anti-seize on the outside of the hub. If the inside of the hub is rusty like Pets's pix, wire brush and sand the rust a way, then apply some rust-oleum paint protection.

Do NOT put anti-seize on lug bolts. Only wire brush them. That is a whole other topic.[/QUOTE]

I'm curious. Why is that?
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      12-08-2012, 11:12 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CE750Jockey View Post
Do NOT put anti-seize on lug bolts. Only wire brush them. That is a whole other topic.[/QUOTE]

I'm curious. Why is that?
The torque figure is for dry bolts. 'Wet' bolts have a different co-efficient of friction, depending on the lubricant, or anti-seize compound used.

Lubricant will change the tensile loading on the bolts at a given torque value, as a high percentage of the input torque is applied to overcome friction. If we reduce the friction (using lubricant) and use the same input torque, it is easy to overload the bolt.

Definitely don't lubricate under the head of the bolts, as 'underhead torque' required for a wet bolt, is completely different to a dry bolt. Underhead lubricant along with lubricant on the thread, reducing thread torque, and the bolt tension will be much higher at a given input torque.

But as said, it is a whole other topic.

HighlandPete

Last edited by HighlandPete; 12-08-2012 at 11:18 AM.
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      12-08-2012, 11:23 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
From the original picture the tainted fluid appears to be coming out from the centre cap, as it does... so not from braking, but water inside the wheel to hub space.

Definitely can sit in there, had it pour out on removing wheels.

HighlandPete
Looks like we need o-rings on the center caps now. I cannot believe this critical engineering oversight by the heralded BMW engineering organization. Maybe it has something to do with the OP's proximity to the Pacific ocean??????
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      12-08-2012, 11:24 AM   #39
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[quote=CE750Jockey;13123176]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cisitalia View Post
Do NOT put anti-seize on lug bolts. Only wire brush them. That is a whole other topic.[/QUOTE]

I'm curious. Why is that?
Great question. You really should not be using anti-seize on the wheel lug bolts or caliper bolts. The design torque specification is always with dry fasteners. If you use the dry value torque specification with anti-seize applied, it acts like a lubricant and results in over torqueing of the fastener. Because of this it is possible to exceed the yield strength of the fastener or as a minimum stretch the fastener prematurely or excessively.

If you must use anti-seize, then you need to back down the applied torque by about 20-40% of the dry fastener torque specification.

Donít use anti-seize on these types of bolts and torque them to the manufacturers recommendation (which defaults to dry values when not specified). Wire brush the bolts if looking a little bad and if really bad you can run an ez-out through the bolt holes to clean them up as well.

Keep in mind wheel lugs that are used on/off many times over the years should be replaced periodically. Also note worthy is, some manufacturers recommend replacing the brake caliper bolts every time they are taken off. Yeah but not many of us do that, but it is certainly a good idea to replace them every once in awhile. That is another good reason not to put anti-seize on brake caliper bolts.

In some applications when it is allowed to use wet or dry conditions, the manufacturer will provide both torque specification values. When the manufacturer designs a fastener application they typically pick a torque value about 80% of the ultimate yield strength of the fastener. That value is typically a dry value with no lubricant or anti-seize. So the wet value will be typically about 20-40% less torque. So you can see it is entirely possible to exceed the yield strength of the fastener with anti-seize, unless you reduce the torque.
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      12-08-2012, 11:30 AM   #40
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Looks like Pete beat me to it while I was typing. Good answer Pete and thanks for the corroboration.
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      12-08-2012, 11:33 AM   #41
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[quote=Cisitalia;13123278]
Quote:
Originally Posted by CE750Jockey View Post
Great question. You really should not be using anti-seize on the wheel lug bolts or caliper bolts. The design torque specification is always with dry fasteners. If you use the dry value torque specification with anti-seize applied, it acts like a lubricant and results in over torqueing of the fastener. Because of this it is possible to exceed the yield strength of the fastener or as a minimum stretch the fastener prematurely or excessively.

If you must use anti-seize, then you need to back down the applied torque by about 20-40% of the dry fastener torque specification.

Donít use anti-seize on these types of bolts and torque them to the manufacturers recommendation (which defaults to dry values when not specified). Wire brush the bolts if looking a little bad and if really bad you can run an ez-out through the bolt holes to clean them up as well.

Keep in mind wheel lugs that are used on/off many times over the years should be replaced periodically. Also note worthy is, some manufacturers recommend replacing the brake caliper bolts every time they are taken off. Yeah but not many of us do that, but it is certainly a good idea to replace them every once in awhile. That is another good reason not to put anti-seize on brake caliper bolts.

In some applications when it is allowed to use wet or dry conditions, the manufacturer will provide both torque specification values. When the manufacturer designs a fastener application they typically pick a torque value about 80% of the ultimate yield strength of the fastener. That value is typically a dry value with no lubricant or anti-seize. So the wet value will be typically about 20-40% less torque. So you can see it is entirely possible to exceed the yield strength of the fastener with anti-seize, unless you reduce the torque.
Cisitalia, this is excellent advice and spot on. I would also point out that even with using anti-seize it is about impossible for human, even using a very long torque wrench; to physically have the strength to over-stretch a BMW wheel bolt. In fact the real danger here would be over stressing the chamfered bolt hole on the wheel and possibly cracking the aluminum wheel at a critical location as the hub area.
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      12-08-2012, 11:37 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Looks like we need o-rings on the center caps now. I cannot believe this critical engineering oversight by the heralded BMW engineering organization. Maybe it has something to do with the OP's proximity to the Pacific ocean??????
I notice when I changed my wheels for winter, the center caps could easily be spun once fitted, so not such a tight fit as on previous BMW wheel and cap combinations.

Perhaps it is common, and a reason for more water ingress these days.

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      12-08-2012, 11:41 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
I notice when I changed my wheels for winter, the center caps could easily be spun once fitted, so not such a tight fit as on previous BMW wheel and cap combinations.

Perhaps it is common, and a reason for more water ingress these days.

HighlandPete
Not like it rains much where you live... I really think the OP's issue is living in or near San Francisco.
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      12-08-2012, 11:44 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cisitalia View Post
Looks like Pete beat me to it while I was typing. Good answer Pete and thanks for the corroboration.
You added a bit more depth to the subject, was trying to keep my comments simple.

Many just don't understand torque, let alone wet and dry values, and I mean tyre shops as well. I've seen the guys using a torque wrench and after setting the value, then proceed to apply more force past the setting....

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